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Bay Sailors, I was wondering if anyone routinely sails the Potomac River. I’m looking at putting a boat (Catalina 27) in the Potomac around Quantico. Does anyone have any experience sailing around there? By reading other threads, it seems that sailors mostly motor all the way up DC.
I would like to have the boat closer to home since I live in Woodbridge, VA. My job moved from MD to VA so Deal, MD (Main Bay) would be a little far. It would be much better, but farther…
I live in Vienna and work in Alexandria, so I understand the area. I've been sailing for ~ 28 years.
I kept a small cat at Gunston Cove for a few years. I sailed a 27' cat out of Aquia Creek a few times. Yes, it's close to home, but the cruising is quite limited and the air is quite cut up and gusty if from the east of west, typical of river sailing. Thus, you either reach back and forth, or work up and down wind, which can be very slow work if the current is set against you. Yes, there is a lot of motoring if you really want to get somewhere. Additionally, there are few places to visit or explore. On the other hand, I have fond memories.
Sure, living in Woodbridge I would certainly keep the boat there for a season or 2, it's worth it, but then you'll move to Deale, I hope. The trip to Deale would be fun anyway.
My blog (below) has a number of travel posts about the Bay and near Deale. Perhaps you will find it interesting.
PDQ has it right, with a boat your size and a work schedule you are limited as to when and how you will sail the available river area. Saw several boats around National Harbor and the Wilson bridge yesterday so it can be done, just depends on what you want to get out of your time.
The river starts to widen out near Quantico, but you still have quite a bit of power boaters out from Occoquan and Quantico, plus the through traffic. A bit further south the river starts to twist and turn more so that can restrict you some.
Deale opens up a lot more of the bay and even more places to visit, if that is your bag. But you still have to get there by car. Yesterday it was over an hour from Woodbridge to Stafford on I-95...a single pickup truck caught fire.
Northern Neck is not a bad compromise of good sailing and traffic to get there. Plus it is quite inexpensive to slip there.
I almost mentioned that, but it is a bit further. I really like the area from Solomons Island to Deltaville, and if I lived where you do I would consider them. They give wonderful access to the islands and the whole Bay. Maybe later.
Thank you so much for all the good information. I was wondering… What do you mean by Northern Neck? Are you talking about the area from Occoquan Bay to DC? The southern part of the river definitely looks interesting from Colonial Beach to Cobb Island and St. Clements Bay.
It looks like a seven hour motor / sail from Aquia Creek to Popes Creek / Cobb Island. It will be much longer fighting the current though.
The "Northern Neck" refers to the peninsula in Virginia between the Potomac River and the Rappahannock River. That is a very pretty area down there. If I lived where you do, I'd be tempted to drive the extra distance down that way instead of out to Deale. Kinsale is nice on the Yeocomico, but there might be someplace closer.
The Potomac is a BIG river. The upper part of the river isn't the best for larger sailboats, but you get further down river, Colonial Beach to the bay, and it really opens up and gives you plenty of space to move around. I sail out of the Yeocomico and it takes me a good one and a half hours to get to the closest marina in Maryland and that's motoring and pretty much a straight shot across the river.
I might add that if you keep your boat in Northumberland County where I am, property taxes are Very attractive. Much less than any other county on the Potomac and Chesapeake Bay.
Thanks for the inputs everyone. Top notch as always! I'll probably put my boat in the Quantico area. I've thought about it and came up with two main reasons:
1. I'm still a beginner and the Potomac (around Occoquan Bay) will be a good place to learn the ropes. I choose a 27' because I wanted the ability to have a good starter boat with overnight capabilities.
2. I'll be 5-10 minutes from my boat and can easily jump in the helm for a couple hour sail after work. That sounds like heaven to me.
I'll decide later when the skills are sharpened and travel bug kicks in to move the boat. More than likely, I'll sail it up to Deale so I can explore the bay a little further.
Hard to argue that logic. I live in Gaithersburg and keep my boat in Shadyside, about 75 minutes away. In the season I get down at least once a week when the weather permits. Since I work for myself, I can usually find time to get away for a few hours. I think it is better to spend any time possible on the boat, even just going down to do some projects lifts my spirits and 2 hours sailing can pump sunshine into my system like nothing else. I suppose I am lucky, my wife loves sailing as much as I do. If the boat were closer to me I would go more often.
I've come to the conclusion that quantity is better than quality since I'm new to sailing. After the first season, I will decide if that should change.
Joe - I really enjoy reading your website and the joy your S/V brings you and your family. Thanks for sharing that...
It is like an on-line log of what we do on the boat, big and small. I am always shocked at how widely read it is when I check the cluster map. Perhaps you might consider doing the same for your new boat.
I live in Arlington and keep my boat on the Occoquan. I day sail a lot and don't want to have to drive all the way to the Bay or feel I'm stuck there for a weekend on my Pearson 26, which is basically boat camping (not too comfy).
PDQ is generally right, sailing is much better imo south of Mason Neck, where I am, as it opens up towards Quantico.
Yes, lots of powerboaters, a PITA often. Yes, flukey wind compared to the Bay. From my dock to Cobb Island is about 10 hrs. motoring, it's 4 to Aquia Harbor (including nearly an hour to get into Aquia Creek).
I'd say try Quantico and see what you want to do. I'd hardly ever see Catalyst if she was at Deale or Shadyside or anywhere on the Bay.
if I decide to move her over there after I retire, we will be moving too, I just don't want to have a 60-90 minute drive every time I want to go to the boat, though there are way more services over there than on the Potomac.
I do 99% of my sailing between Mason Neck and Quantico.
We are currently sailing out of Washington Sailing Marina. It is nice, and only 3 miles from home, but the river isn't great for sailing.
I am trying to convince my buddy, and co-owner of our Catalina 25, to move it to the Chesapeake. I am thinking Annapolis or Deale. Any suggestions on a marina in Deale with a pool and no wait list?
I'm fairly new to the area and was wondering, is it possible to sail all the way up from Cedar Run down by Manassas to the Potomac River? I've heard there are a few dams along the Occoquan, so I'm assuming not? What would be the farthest you could get into the Northern Virginia area and still be able to reach the Potomac unimpeded? Thanks for your help!
Here's my one experience on the Potomac. I put in at a private ramp in McCay Cove (Tall Timbers area) and set out. Was the strongest winds and biggest waves I've ever had the boat in. The video was taken during a lull in the waves. Was a lot of fun in a 17 foot boat! Wouldn't be any big thing for the larger boats.
A few years ago, we pulled out of Tall Timbers headed for the Yeocomico on the VA side. our 38' Carver was rocking and rolling. Your video looks like a typical day on the Potomac. We get it a lot worse on the VA side.
I have to agree with midlife here. I spent it seemed like a whol;e day getting the crap kicked out me on a passage back up the Bay from Deltaville to the Solomons crossing the Potomac.
Was a great sail before and after......but the 6 hours in between y, wet, bone jarring, and lots of cursing. It is an amazing untame place to transit when current and wind oppose.
I have to agree with midlife here. I spent it seemed like a whol;e day getting the crap kicked out me on a passage back up the Bay from Deltaville to the Solomons crossing the Potomac.
Was a great sail before and after......but the 6 hours in between y, wet, bone jarring, and lots of cursing. It is an amazing untame place to transit when current and wind oppose.
One of my worst trips on the Potomac was our first visit to St. Marys. It was a great reach up from Deltaville in nearly perfect conditions up to the Potomac, but the wind was right on the nose once we turned up the river and the waves were short and steep. Motoring directly into the wind, waves and current, we could only make a bit over 4 knots with about every 4th wave breaking over the deck, so it a was a long slog until we reached St Marys River.
Have you ever stood at Point Lookout, where the Potomac is on one side, and the Chesapeake is on the other? I have.
The river was wild, with white caps, and the bay was very tame, even though the wind was still whipping across it. It's definitely a study in contrasts.
One of the decisions that we are making this winter while our sailboat is on the hard is to either relocate to Conan River Marina (or near by) or remain within the crowded Deltaville area.
I knew that the Potomac had some chop near the mouth of the river but is it that rough and uncomfortable?
I sailed most of my life at Oswego, NY on Lake Ontario and at times, it gets fairly rough at times. The wave lengths are short but steep which creates nasty chop.
Maybe I should stay within the Deltaville area?...
One of the decisions that we are making this winter while our sailboat is on the hard is to either relocate to Conan River Marina (or near by) or remain within the crowded Deltaville area.
I knew that the Potomac had some chop near the mouth of the river but is it that rough and uncomfortable?
I sailed most of my life at Oswego, NY on Lake Ontario and at times, it gets fairly rough at times. The wave lengths are short but steep which creates nasty chop.
Maybe I should stay within the Deltaville area?...
All I can say is if you think the Deltaville area is crowded, don't come north of the Potomac.
Up here you don't really need a boat of your own to get to the eastern shore -- just jump from boat to boat, as they're lined up from Herrington Harbor to Eastern Bay.
coan river is nice, as are some places off the Yeocomico...make sure and the marina manager are on the same page, as what they say is more accurate than the paperwork they hand you.
the potomac as it meets the bay, can be as bad an area you have ever seen. Especially on the front or back of a fast moving storm. I have headed that way only to turn around at smith point. I have been there with barges and a tug and the front barge will rise and fall almost the full height of the next pair. Chop can be quite unsettling...the good part is you get experience and can always run to a safe creek or marina in just a few minutes. Some great hurricane holes, and most of the water is much deeper than around D-ville, although I heard that they have finally dredged the channel on the north side to a full 6 feet.
Current in Lake Oswego...is miniscule....current in the potomac can be as much as 5 knotts...in an opposing wind with the fetch across 15 miles of open Bay at the mouth of the Potomac does not compare at all
Chef2Sail, you're right, there is not a strong current on Lake Ontario as you would compare to the Potomac's mouth entrance to the bay but I have been caught in some really nasty white knuckle storms with 8' steep waves.
It doesn't seem that there are any strong recommendations for the Potomac. One issue that I have is that we sail mostly as a family with our two small children, 6 yr old girl and 8 yr old boy. They are comfortable sailing and really enjoy each cruise as an adventure unless it's 105 degrees out. I hate to have them get tossed around and start getting scared every time we head out. Getting caught in bad weather every once in a while is one thing and it happens but I hate to fight the current and chop on a constant basis.
Chef2Sail, you're right, there is not a strong current on Lake Ontario as you would compare to the Potomac's mouth entrance to the bay but I have been caught in some really nasty white knuckle storms with 8' steep waves.
It doesn't seem that there are any strong recommendations for the Potomac. One issue that I have is that we sail mostly as a family with our two small children, 6 yr old girl and 8 yr old boy. They are comfortable sailing and really enjoy each cruise as an adventure unless it's 105 degrees out. I hate to have them get tossed around and start getting scared every time we head out. Getting caught in bad weather every once in a while is one thing and it happens but I hate to fight the current and chop on a constant basis.
I don't think anyone intended to imply that conditions were ALWAYS bad on the Potomac, just that when they get bad, they're worse than many other parts of the Bay. I would think that most of the time the area would be just fine, as it was the last time I was there during the Governor's Cup.
When we were boat shopping, I visited some of the marina's on the VA side of the Potomac and thought they were OK, but nowhere near enticing enough to have me relocate when we were in Deltaville, even though they were somewhat closer to me. For me, my boat is a home away from home so I like having some amenities nearby. The things I liked about Deltaville was there were several decent restaurants, 2 West Marine stores and a great idependent hardware store. There wasn't much like that close to the marina's I visited along the Potomac (one did have a restaraunt on site). In short, Deltaville was rural enough for me and never struck me as crowded. (except when I had to wait for a table at Kokomo's).
I like the lower Potomac. The river and Bay are wide open in that area, and there are few other boaters in sight. There are some disturbances as you approach Smith Point and some fish nets off the southern shore, but otherwise a nice area. I haven't experienced any strong currents in the area.
I had a few great sails on the lower Potomac in November 2011 during strong Southerly breezes when I could close reach along the southern shore of the Potomac with little or no chop and great wind.
On one of these sails, as I approached Smith Point, I noticed a strange patch of whitecaps and chop near where the Potomac enters the Bay. When I sailed into this area, the wind backed 60 degrees so I was headed on my initial course and dropped in velocity from about 20 knots to about 10 knots. The boat was surrounded by little breaking waves, about 2 feet in height - I think this is referred to as "overfalls", where a strong tide meets waves going in the opposite direction over a more shallow area. I decided to reverse direction and head back to the marina. After about five minutes of sailing, I was out of the chop and the original wind direction and strength resumed. Next time, I will take photos.
I kept my boat there from 2008 until this season (mouth of the St. Mary's) it can get nasty, especially if you get a good SE breeze with 30 miles of fetch and opposing current. It's a great place to sail when the weather is good, typically a bit more wind in the summer b/c of the wide open spaces.
Honor Pt. Lookout, the shoal moves. I've been around it more than 2 dozen times and if there's breeze, it's either a run out of the river and a beat up the bay, or beat out of the river, and a run up the bay. You'll pay your dues if you sail there a lot. But I don't think it's dangerous as long as you don't feel you "HAVE" to make it somewhere. I was supposed to deliver my boat to a race on a nasty friday once, decided leaving at dawn on Saturday made more sense. It worked out. Just be smart about it.
Very true, when it's blowing 20-25 with opposing current in the potomac, it reminds of conditions on the bay when it's blowing 30-35. Short steep nastiness in a 25' boat. You do however learn how to drive a boat through bad waves. I feel like this has given me a slight advantage over some other racers who's clubs don't typically race in 30+ conditions.
When it's nasty, how far do the bad conditions extend?
Curious as to what is meant by "mouth of the Potomac". Is it just where the river meets the Bay? If wind and current are opposing at the mouth of the river, how far East and South do the nasty conditions extend?
Can you avoid them by crossing from say, Reedville to Tangier? Or would that put you right in the middle of it? Could you travel north on the west side of Tangier and Smith Islands or would it be better to just travel up Tangier Sound?
Curious as to what is meant by "mouth of the Potomac". Is it just where the river meets the Bay? If wind and current are opposing at the mouth of the river, how far East and South do the nasty conditions extend?
Can you avoid them by crossing from say, Reedville to Tangier? Or would that put you right in the middle of it? Could you travel north on the west side of Tangier and Smith Islands or would it be better to just travel up Tangier Sound?
I think you will find that when it is nasty, both the potomac from the Birthday Cake mark (about 12 miles up the river) to the bay, as well as the bay itself can be pretty nasty. If you are transiting north south (or vice versa), you can get some relief staying closer (in the lee) to the eastern shore - but that makes watching the water much more important. Alot of the water around Tangier and Smith Island is quite thin, and even more so when it blows east west. And you lose the ability to run to a hole, if things get worse. IN a blow, perhaps a bad habit I learned way back, was to stay in the deep water with plenty of room to run, or be pushed around...there have been times that I motor, head in to the wind and waves at mid throttle - and just stay still and have control. Much better motion.
Transiting east to west or vice versa you will need to be on your toes, but as a previous poster indicated, it is a great way to test your skills. Not sure though that I would want to be in it in a small, or mostly open boat, unless you have a buddy around or onboard who can help you out.
Best of luck, and I am sure others will chime in.
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