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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-09-2006 06:03 AM
seabreeze_97 Sheeesh. Slips by the length? Can't help but gloat. Down here, my local marina rents by the width foot. $4/ft, with a 12ft minimum....power and water included. 'Course, there was a 2-year wait before Katrina, and it's a healthy list even now. I'm at #42. Hopefully, when all the broken pilings have been replaced, I'll be in.
08-09-2006 04:04 AM
The sailing K-9's hit it

As SailingDog mentioned, cold is a very important factor for liveaboards. Without much insulation, most boats will condense a lot of moisture in very cold conditions. The winters on the Chesapeake often are rather cold. The typical cabin top has very little insulation with large sections of fiberglass covered plywood in some sections and maybe a small amount of foam under the headliner. Windows are single glazed. Things like this will precipitate like crazy when you heat the interior and just sit around breathing out moisture. Without serious remedial measures, mildew forms and that's not a pretty situation. For the winter the deck needs to be cocooned with at least a well fitting set of customized tarps. A serious dehumidifier will be needed inside.

He may be on to something with the double enders, as they tend to be blue water boats with more insulation even in the topsides (hull above the waterline).

I think your son needs to seek out people who have wintered on a sailboat around here and learn from their experience on how to cope when we have a really nasty winter. I suppose there are some vessels which are much better insulated but I believe you will find that they are quite pricey. If he is going to actually live aboard throughout the Chesapeake winters, I think that the strongest determining factor should be the winter suitability of the vessel at tbe expense of other things such as sailing performance and lower cost.

Another thing that happens is that to sail a liveaboard vessel a bunch of things need to be stowed (yeah, that tiltey thing). Then to convert back to the cozy liveboard situation the same items need to be unstowed. I have even heard of liveaboards who end up with two sailboats: one to live on and a smaller one to sail.

For online resources you can use That accesses a worldwide database with listings from over 15,000 brokerages. It also has a power search mechanism if you know what you are looking for.
08-08-2006 02:13 PM
Jeff_H I'd rather do that by a personal message, Thanks

08-08-2006 10:23 AM
eryka Awww, but half the fun of Back Creek is watching the "parade of fools" from our cockpit on a Sunday afternoon (we have an outside slip). We skated on Isabel, we were far enough up BC to have very little fetch, and a rise of land protected us from the worst winds.

OTOH, Whitehall Bay is one of our favorite quick easy places to go if we just want to spend a weekend on the hook. Would you mind passing on the name of your small marina just in case they raise our slip fees (again!) when our lease comes up in November? We're shoal draft so that wont be an issue. Thanx!
08-08-2006 09:18 AM
Jeff_H Mill Creek is 35 minutes by water and 10 minutes by car from Back Creek. The 5K difference will certainly buy you all of the commuting that you would ever want to do. The marinas on Mill Creek aren't as plush but they certainly are better protected than Back Creek. The only shortcoming is that it is hard to get into Mill Creek in the low tides of winter with a draft over 7 feet. Then again you don't have to deal with all of the yahoos coming and going into Back Creek.

08-08-2006 08:51 AM
eryka Wow! We're paying $6K/yr, PLUS liveaboard fees, in Back Creek. Financially, it would obviously pay to look around, but where we are is a great location and we like the community. Ya gets what ya pays for, I guess.

btw, happy birthday saturday
08-07-2006 11:56 AM
Jeff_H I have five slips at my house just north of the Severn in Annapolis. Those rates are what I charge for the smaller slips at my house. I set that rate after talking to quite a few of my neighbors and the small marina next door. The marina is a little but more than the private docks, but not all that much. As recently as a year ago, I rented a 50 foot transient slip for my 38 footer at a marina on the Potomac for $160. per month. I can't speak for New England but on the Chesapeake there are a lot of ways to rent slips inexpensively.

If he is only buying a hulk, he would be way better off buying a powerboat without an engine because they have a lot more room than a sailboat, and often include more shore power operated conveniences.

08-07-2006 10:37 AM
sailingdog I think the OP is planning on living aboard, but sailing the boat a considerable deal, at least locally. So the costs of boat ownership are definitely an issue for him.

JeffH, I'd also be very interested in knowing where you're getting prices like that. That would work out to $1200 for a 30' boat, or a bit more for a 30' liveaboard. I can't find dockage that runs anything less than $80 a foot for the season, which works out to $2400 for the summer season, which runs from April 1, to October 1, and almost $350 a month.
08-07-2006 08:34 AM
eryka I think you guys are confusing the costs of 'boat ownership' with 'living aboard.' In that one could live aboard a hull docked at a marina and never go anywhere, such a boat wouldn't need an engine, sails, or even a mast, and would be so cheap to buy that depreciation wouldn't be a factor. (You might need to put some $ in tho, for example upgrading from an icebox to a refrig system, etc). OTOH, if he's buying a boat to enjoy sailing and investing in those systems anyway, the *incremental* cost of moving aboard and giving up the house is minimal -- maybe just the liveaboard utility fees at a marina -- instead of the cost of rent plus marina slip. Either of those two scenarios represents cheap 'living aboard.' The place where the best you do is break even, is get into sailing as a hobby for the first time, AND moving aboard.

BTW, Jeff H - speaking of living aboard cheaply, where are those $100/month boat slips you mentioned in your post? We can't find a mooring for less than that!
08-06-2006 07:27 PM
hellosailor rm-
There are some costs that he may or may not have considered. Sails don't last forever, he'll need to pro-rate the price of replacements and think of that as an annual cost. And there's the bottom, he'll probably need to haul and paint at least once a year down there. The haul will cost, as will the paint.

Those kind of things can creep up on you. If he hasn't literally gone over a boat (any boat) and listed every item, along with the annual replacement/maintenance/"oops broke it" costs, etc...He may have missed significant dollars.

If you actually make a spreadsheet on the computer, and list prices starting with the asking price of the boat, what it needs, the cost of that, and the LABOR that it will can get that surprise. Especially if you look at labor as a variable, i.e. what a yard would charge ($150/hour?) what you might do it in, and the time it would take if, like most boat projects, it gets harder as you get into it. Whatever he can get paid for his labor elsewhere--that's a dollar figure to put into the budget.
Personally I don't think "liveaboard" is a way to "live cheap" any more, at least not in the US. It may be a way to make a BOAT AFFORDABLE, but unlike a house, the boat will devalue, so it is just shifting the rent to something that needs lots of maintenance. (But can be real fun on a nice day.)
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