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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > 2011 Sun Odyssey 409
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Thread: 2011 Sun Odyssey 409 Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-20-2013 05:07 PM
blt2ski
Re: 2011 Sun Odyssey 409

Baboon,

There are 14 or so, so far sold in the puget sound area. I would think, assume you are dealing with MSC on a new boat. They should have some names of people that have bought the boat so you can ask questions on this. OR, go to the owners forum and literally post a question like this. I find my mid 80's 28' on deck boat does just fine here in puget sound in upwards of 40 knot winds when it is appropriatly reefed etc. I am positive a 409 would be the same.

Marty
10-20-2013 02:31 PM
baboon
Re: 2011 Sun Odyssey 409

This is an older thread, but I thought it made sense to add to it rather than start a new one.

I recently have been looking at a new 409, and have sailed it in light wind. I am impressed with how easy it is to short hand. As we think about a bigger boat for us it seems to be a good option. I would like some input now that it has been out for a few years as to durability and sailing performance, especially in heavy air. Is it well balanced? Are there any known trouble spots?

I already know about the interior wood compromises and iron keel. The boat I am looking at has the deeper draft, non-furling main, 110 jib and has the hardware installed for the bigger jib and asymmetrical kite. I often sail short handed, sail 2 times a week in season, and spend a week or 2 a year on the boat cruising. No offshore sailing or racing.

Any input from sailors with real world experience with this boat would be appreciated. I did check on the Jeanneau owners site but there is not much info on this model.
07-06-2011 10:55 PM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
PCP...you are right about the Tartan, but the older ones pre 1998 are great boats. Rawkdawg is looking for a boat in the $200,000 range it appears. Cant touch a new Tartan for that anyway. It is sad what Tratn has done to itself, but I didnt think Sabre, Calber or HR has those problems.

My point is more aimed at trying to compare a Sabre, Calber, HR to a Jenneau. They come from two different worlds, so it what do you intend usung it for

Buy new for 200,000 a 40 Jenneau sailboat, I do not think that in 10 years that boat will worth even $100,000, if you look how they depreciate and their resale value. Buy a 10 year old HR and in 10 years it will still be worth in excess of 100,000

Understand I am in no way putting down the Jenneaus or anyother production boat. Many friends who are good sailors have them.

Dave
Dave,

Of course you are right, but not all the way. A Jeanneau is better designed than any of those boats. The HR has a modern hull but for having something designed like a Caliber yacht you have to look at Jeanneaus from the 80's.

Regarding value you are about right, probably a Jeanneau bought now for 200 000 will just be worth probably 100 000 in 10 years time and I am pretty sure a HR 40 bought now will worth a lot more than 100 000 in 10 years. But a HR bought now will cost 400 000 and what I can tell you is that you would lose a lot more than 100 000 in 10 years time.

Yes no doubt a HR is better built than a Jeanneau, mainly in what concerns overall quality but that difference is nowhere near the money difference. Mass production techniques, advanced used of robotics, scale production permits control of quality and huge savings in labor. The final result is a good boat at an affordable price.

The Jeanneau 409 is not designed as a all time passage maker, but very few boats are mostly because they are not used for it most of the time and the characteristics that would make them excel in that use would be counterproductive in the use that is given to the boat most of the time.

The 409 is a good compromise, a fast boat with good stability that can sail with weak winds and a boat that if conveniently equipped is fit for offshore work, perfectly capable of safely cross the Atlantic (in the right season) and much more.

Regards

Paulo
07-06-2011 10:28 PM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
... Any type of grounding will result in the damage that this owner is having. The French boat is design to the minimum specification allowed. It will work as long as nothing goes wrong.
The French have an huge boat production, on the last 5 years about 10000 boats were manufactured. The Jeanneaus are not less well built than the Dufours, Benetaus and other European mass production boats. If you were right, because things go wrong all the time (many groundings) there should be an huge number of European boats with structural problems. But in fact there are not.

On the main French sail forum a guy that is interested in statistical evidence about boats (accidents, capsizes and so on) posted a thread to receive information about structural problems on boats, including keel problems:

Hisse Et Oh - Forums techniques : VOILIERS DE SERIE: problèmes de structures connus.

Very few problems with new boats, mostly problems with old boats.
07-06-2011 10:20 PM
chef2sail PCP...you are right about the Tartan, but the older ones pre 1998 are great boats. Rawkdawg is looking for a boat in the $200,000 range it appears. Cant touch a new Tartan for that anyway. It is sad what Tratn has done to itself, but I didnt think Sabre, Calber or HR has those problems.

My point is more aimed at trying to compare a Sabre, Calber, HR to a Jenneau. They come from two different worlds, so it what do you intend usung it for

Buy new for 200,000 a 40 Jenneau sailboat, I do not think that in 10 years that boat will worth even $100,000, if you look how they depreciate and their resale value. Buy a 10 year old HR and in 10 years it will still be worth in excess of 100,000

Understand I am in no way putting down the Jenneaus or anyother production boat. Many friends who are good sailors have them.

Dave
07-06-2011 10:10 PM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Melra,

I am with you. You get what you pay for. ...
Well, Tartan's are pretty expensive and I hear that there are a lot of costumers very dissatisfied with their boats, with huge problems that they cannot get fixed under warranty.
07-06-2011 09:26 PM
chef2sail Melra,

I am with you. You get what you pay for. No comparing HR, Calbers, Sabres with Jenneaus. They are made quality wise very different. Thats not to say you cant take any boat anywhere with some modification. Look at resale value and the truth is apparent which boats hold up after 10 years, 20 years. That can tell you which are made better. Older boats can be updated with new equipment, that is window dressing. Its whats the hull made from...how is it made... how do delivery captains rate them against each other as they have no real bias. I would listen strongly to that. then...

Buy the boat which bests suits the way you will sail her and what is important. One of my good friends has a Hinkley. It is a beautiful classic boat which is like a museum piece, which is why he likes it...it fits what he wants in a boat. Cant make a Jenneau into an HR.

Dave
07-06-2011 08:49 AM
Melrna I hope you make the right decision for you. Having been on the boat and my review, I still stand by it. I feel Jeanneau just cut to many corners in making the interior of the boat and some of the sailing gear for anything but occasional use. With the problems of the 42DS written about the Jeanneau site, I feel that the keel problem the new owner is experiencing is the way the keel is bolted on; Bolted on with helix coil in the iron vs J bolts. Any type of grounding will result in the damage that this owner is having. The French boat is design to the minimum specification allowed. It will work as long as nothing goes wrong.
07-05-2011 11:29 AM
rockDAWG I will consider the deep draft. It is a 2.4 or 2.1 m. I hope it is 2.1M or 6.9 ft.

BTW, with the swimming platform and the current stern shape of the 409, it will be difficult to instill wind vane steering.

Quote:
On the canals you don't sail, you have to take down the mast and a sailing boat is not the right boat to do the channels. Well, not my cup of tea anyway.
Hahah... I am well aware of it. It is hard to tack with the canal being 10 M wide. . But for the Americans, it is cool to the sailboat through Paris, etc.
Quote:
Cruising Europe yes, but on a fast car on twisting mountain roads with lots of stops in nice villages. The Alps and Pyrenees have great mountain roads and incredible village
We did that in 2008 when we took an European delivery of our BMW. We drove through Germany, Austria, Italy (Milan), Geneva, France. We dropped our vehicle in Paris. We had a great time, but regret that we did not go to Easter Europe.

It is too bad the Porsche's European delivery sucks. Otherwise I will consider getting one. As I am getting older, I lost much of my desire in 911. There is no place to drive in the States except on the track.
07-01-2011 09:36 PM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
...

I will think hard. If I take 2.1 draft, I may have to give up sailing to Bahama.
You mean, big sailboats don't cruise in Bahamas? All of them have more than
2.40m draft. Yes you will cruise, with some limitations, but less than millionaire's sailboats

The biggest difference from the 1.55m draft will be a better upwind performance, less leeway and a better overall performance (the short keel is heavier). Probably the more important difference will be the leeway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
...
..
P.S. BTW, What is the draft of the river/canals in Europe. The one near Bordeaux which snakes thru inland and out to Mediterranean Sea near Spain. I think it is just 5 ft, right ? It is in my bucket list, sort of.
Hum, I don't have a clue. I prefer to cruise mainland Europe in a roadster

On the canals you don't sail, you have to take down the mast and a sailing boat is not the right boat to do the channels. Well, not my cup of tea anyway.

Cruising Europe yes, but on a fast car on twisting mountain roads with lots of stops in nice villages. The Alps and Pyrenees have great mountain roads and incredible villages.

Regards

Paulo
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