SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail > To capsize or not!
 Not a Member? 


Thread: To capsize or not! Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
07-09-2011 04:13 PM
eddie nelson Seat time is the key with anything. I cant wait to start learning and practicing.
07-07-2011 02:44 PM
chrondi I would not suggest to force by all means a fixed keel 20+footer to capsize. Such boats do capsize but this is rather the result of a combination of wind and waves, i.e. a potentially dangerous situation if no other boat is nearby ready to help. The tendency of the boat to turn to windward is her designed natural defence and filling the cockpit and cabin with water doesn't cover any meaningful learning need. These skills are rather acquired by means of dinghy sailing, not with heavier boats!
07-05-2011 06:24 PM
deniseO30 When I had my H23 We were hit with a gust.. took us to starboard. sails out and boom dipping.. Wind kept us down but the boat just slowly moved into the shallows of the river. Nothing I did mattered Other then when in "doubt, let out" the boat basically saved herself! All in about maybe 2-5 minutes. I've never feared heeling since!
07-05-2011 04:40 PM
turbulicity 20-30 degrees of heel may feel like much but your keel ballast have just started working at that point. What you have, as pointed out above, is probably an initial stability issue which will happen if your boat is not very beamy or has a round underbody. You will find that capsizing a keelboat is harder than one might think.

Even my sailing dinghy without a keel surprised me. You step on it and it feels like it will roll over on slightest imbalance. Feels much more stable when heeled under sail.
07-05-2011 02:23 PM
hellosailor Mark-
"What does it really take to capsize a boat "
One good squall, that's all.
Consider the J/24 which was considered "uncapsizeable". Squall line came through the NY/NJ area in the 90's while a fleet was out racing, put one over on her ear, water came in through the cockpit lockers and flooded the boat out below. Capsized. And that's not the only one.
Push hard enough, and anything goes over. Most stuff also rolls back upright, if you have prepared the boat. That can mean sealing lazarettes off, or at least securing their covers, and putting in the companionway boards in rough wx.
The capsize ratios give you a way to compare you boat to others, and to see how much push it will take to start it over. But as long as you don't plant the mast in the mud, you can take reasonable steps to ensure it will keep rolling right over and come back up again.
Some boats have high "initial stability" meaning, you step aboard and they don't rock. Others are tender and have more "form stability" meaning, they'lleasily roll and put a shoulder to the water, and then dig in and remain stable at that heel angle. Most are one or the other these days, very few are actually tender AND tippy AND inclined to keep rolling on over.
07-05-2011 01:45 PM
ccriders Mahicks,
Welcome to Sailnet, you can learn alot here. Go to this calculator: Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2500+ boats and you will find that your capsize factor is 2.17. 2.0 and lower are considered good.
It is pretty hard for the wind alone to capsize your keel boat, it may knock you down, ie put the mast head in the water, but it would take a combination of wind and wave to turn you completely over.
Have fun,
John
07-05-2011 10:45 AM
nolatom I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that with 1200 pounds of keel ballast underneath (by subtraction) a 2000 pound hull, you're going to have an extremely difficult time capsizing her (meaning she goes way over, mast in the water, and won't recover). She may heel way over if you are 'making' her (meaning too much sail not eased enough, or getting caught aback, or some kind of jibe-broach deal downwind, or the like) but the boat *will* recover if you will just let her (and you had your hatches closed to avoid downflooding).

What sometimes happens in the debacles mentioned above, is the crew on a lightweight boat doesn't/can't hang onto the high side, and fall to lee (or in an accidental jibe they're now suddenly on the low side), the worst possible place for them, and for the boat's stability. Crew weight placement is a big factor in boats less than, say, 7000 pounds or so.
07-04-2011 10:45 PM
AnderCranster
07-04-2011 10:25 PM
deniseO30 Yes, sorry I don't mean to try and sink your boat. just try and see what it takes to really get her heeled over allot.
07-04-2011 10:12 PM
AnderCranster I had a 26' Chrysler that was pretty solid in my opinion. A storm was rolling in when we were headed to the slip one time, and the wind changed direction by 30 degrees and upped it's speed a LOT (not sure how much, but it's still the biggest gust I've seen on Lake Lanier).

When the direction and wind speed changed we were sailing pretty close to the wind on a starboard tack, with a 130% genoa and the main up.

Then BAM it hit us directly from the side and the top of my mast was _maybe_ 12' above the water, and just as quick, we were up again, but it was a very gusty wind and I let both sails go, brought them down and we motored in.

That keel will do a LOT to keep your boat from going all the way over.

I'm pretty sure I would not test it too hard though, as Denise suggested. She may be right, but I'd check the sea ratings of the boat and search for a forum dedicated to your make/model and learn from their experiences.

Have fun though, sounds like a fun boat. You may want to see if you can borrow/rent a smaller boat sometime. You can learn a lot about wind and sail trimming on them pretty quickly.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:13 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.