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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...
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Thread: Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-02-2011 01:51 PM
wolfenzee In a discussion on what makes up a "blue water boat" a friend responded,"you can take any boat to sea, it just matters whether you have more balls than brains". That said he went onto say he has a Catalina 30 "I know you have to pay a bit more attention when sailing it, it is a bit more work, it's a bit rougher in a nasty sea....but it is also a comfortable live aboard for me and my wife"
I on the otherhand have William Atkin design boat, great sea boat, fast, narrow, solid and dry....but tight for a live aboard.
08-09-2011 01:19 PM
puddinlegs
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailguy40 View Post
Agreed and now that you say that, I realize my thoughts were correct. I was wondering if I was not pushing my boat so hard and fast, I could have had a rudder for my return trip So the day when I had rudder failure I was rushing and pushing my boat really hard to try and get to my anchorage so I can get setup for the night. It was a planned out trip and something told me to wait until the next day since we departed from the dock 2 hours later then planned. Plowing through the waves is exactly what I did until the waves plowed through my rudder. I think if I would have put a reef in the main, it would have slowed me enough which would mean less stress on the boat, rigger, rudder whatever. Oh well, at least I know now.
Your rudder broke because it was old and possibly had been damaged by impact previous to your ownership, or more probably, wet core and disintegrated tabbing from years of normal use. If every rudder broke that was 'pushed', this stuff would be epidemic on any number of boats.
08-09-2011 01:36 AM
blt2ski
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
So who can help me? I'm planning to circumnavigate in a laser. I was planning on using a sunfish, but the rudder broke once. How should I set up a reefing system? What else should I take? hmmm. Maybe a Thistle might be a better choice. How should I install a diesel? Tankage? What do you take for food? I'm ruling out refrigeration to keep things simple. Can anyone tell me if the boat will 'slam' going to weather? By the way, I drive a station wagon. Hope that helps!
Not that I should be thinking......OOUCH! dang nabbit, pulled a brain electron again.....grrrrrrrr.....

lets get this circumnavigate with lasers into a race! Wonder how many lasers we can get starting here in Seattle, 1st stop say PA, then down to Illwaco, to somewhere in Or, then N ca, to SF. Then the long jaunt to Hawaii. then midway........

I would imagine a sponsor or two or three should come along reasonably easy enough..... Maybe 48N?!?!?!?....

I got it


SAILNET!

Marty
08-08-2011 07:49 PM
JonEisberg
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post

I used to think that, but after intense studying the facts, I think all sailboat can survive regardless the make. The boats vanished in the seas is not because they were poorly made. Most because of human factor and "TOO MUCH SAIL" for the condition they wee in. Of course unable to reef in a timely matter can cause trouble. Yes, a well made boat may offer better mechanism to reef, etc. But you can do the modification on a Beneteau too.
Sorry, but I have to disagree, I think it’s a bit naÔve to dismiss the importance of two vital factors in a boat when sailing in heavy weather offshore…

Namely, Quality, and Simplicity

IMHO, it’s impossible to understate the degree to which relatively minor, niggling problems related to lesser quality in production can degrade the morale of the crew, and contribute to discomfort, exhaustion, fear, and – ultimately – lassitude… Little things like leaking hatches or other topside leaks are usually little more than an annoyance on a coastal cruise. But in a prolonged period of heavy weather offshore, they can easily become one among many annoyances that can quickly contribute to larger problems, allowing water to migrate into electrical systems, and so on… It’s amazing, for example, how something as seemingly minor as the creaking of bulkheads and cabinetry on a boat of lesser quality can get to one after awhile, and greatly exacerbate one’s annoyance with the boat and overall situation… You are correct in saying that boats will almost always far outlast their crews in heavy weather, but I think you might be ignoring how much the boat itself can be responsible for that…

Just a hunch, of course, but I wouldn’t be surprised if such factors came heavily into play in the recent abandonment of the 50’ Gulfstar TRUMPH… A cascading series of failures on an older boat not really designed or built for offshore, none of them seemingly catastrophic in themselves (from what little we know of what actually occurred, of course) eventually just wore down the morale of the crew to the point they just wanted off… Again, that’s just my hunch, of course…

On the other side of the coin, boats of high quality, but possessing a great deal of complexity, can work a similar sort of rope-a-dope upon their crews… One of the most miserable trips I’ve ever had in recent memory was aboard a former Cruising World BOTY Luxury Cruiser category winner and subject of a cover story feature, your quintessential $1.5 million “Globe Girdler”… A very impressive boat with a great design pedigree, but heavily dependent upon an array of complex systems to sail…

Sure enough, shortly after exiting the Stream off Hatteras, we began to suffer the first of various full or partial failures that plagued us for the remainder of the trip – which turned into a hard beat for the last 800 miles, we were barely able to fetch Tortola… The watermaker was the first to go, on a boat with relatively modest water capacity – because, of course, why do you need capacious water tanks with a watermaker aboard? Then, the generator quit, which meant no air conditioning for the final warm days of the trip… Life below became rather oppressive, with the inability to open hatches or ports while beating into large seas – dorades, of course, have become hopelessly passe’ on a modern climate-controlled Globe Girdler… The electric Leisure-Furl crapped out before we had even exited the Chesapeake, and furling the main turned into a three man operation every time the apparent wind changed by more than a few knots, with such a highly powered-up, mainsail-dependent rig… The autopilot was barely hanging in there for the second half of the trip, we wound up hand-steering most of the last several days… And virtually every day, some new problem associated with the extraordinary complexity of this boat surfaced, that sort of thing really affects your morale after awhile… By the time we finally got to the Bitter End, all three of us were practically climbing over each other to be the first one to get off the freakin’ thing…

So, IMHO, it can cut both ways… But to suggest that the boat really doesn’t matter that much, that any plastic production model will fare every bit as well as a higher quality offering, in my experience, really misses the mark… Go with as much quality as you can afford, and keep it as simple as possible, is my mantra…
08-08-2011 07:04 PM
sailguy40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Lets face it. The wise experienced Captain/skipper will not go offshore in foul weather. Which is different of being caught offshore by foul weax.
Then the skills of Capt & crew comes into play on surviving said foul weax.
But one trick that has really kept me in the good graces with God is to go slow. You should not be in a hurry to be any place. Your vessel will have an easier time and less stress by slowing down and riding over the waves and Not Plowing through them. Another thing is not to panic. Panicing is a killer in more ways then one.
Agreed and now that you say that, I realize my thoughts were correct. I was wondering if I was not pushing my boat so hard and fast, I could have had a rudder for my return trip So the day when I had rudder failure I was rushing and pushing my boat really hard to try and get to my anchorage so I can get setup for the night. It was a planned out trip and something told me to wait until the next day since we departed from the dock 2 hours later then planned. Plowing through the waves is exactly what I did until the waves plowed through my rudder. I think if I would have put a reef in the main, it would have slowed me enough which would mean less stress on the boat, rigger, rudder whatever. Oh well, at least I know now.
08-08-2011 06:40 PM
casey1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailguy40 View Post
If I was ever caught in a storm, I would much rather be in an Oday 37 then my Oday 22 regardless of my experience no matter if I am in the lake or gulf. I see the 37 as just much more of a sailboat, a lot of boat there.
It was May 1980 and I was crew with two very experienced men from England doing a delivery from Annapolis to St Lucia (I myself had never sailed a boat before). We were sailing a new Oday 37, and left Norfolk to sail non-stop to Antigua. About 1/2 during the trip we hit a gale. At night we hove to as we could not see the waves and the boat was pounding pretty bad. So bad the experienced capt filled a ditch bad with food and prepared the life raft in case the boat began to sink. This was at a time of no epirbs or GPS, we only had a VHF good for 30 miles and no ships were around. SSB was available but because this was to be a charter boat, one was not installed. We made it through the storm. By the way, every over head light fixture was full of water and we had 6 inches of water sloshing around the sole during this time, and all the bunks were wet- The boats deck and fittings leaked like a sieve.

Based on that trip I would not consider an Oday 37 a blue water boat or and off shore boat- at least not one I would trust friends or family to.
08-08-2011 03:25 PM
pinayreefer I once lived next to a wealthy family who had waterfront. It looked like a marina, with at least 10 boats lined up, all different for use in different conditions.
As for weather, yes I have the motto, "You gotta be tough if you're gonna be stupid". Took my McG... 22 from Key West to the Dry Tortugas without checking a weather forecast. Thanks goodnes for a storm jib as we got beat to near death by the remnants of a tropical storm,registered 40 knots, though that doesn't seem like much until you're on a flat-bottomed McG..., but we made it to Fort Jefferson!
My point is that sometimes people can get away with crazy stuff, but not every time. I'll take my future chances with something with a higher probability of success than a McG!
08-08-2011 02:10 PM
rayncyn51 Might be easier to take the station wagon. Just make sure the chainplates are up to it.
08-08-2011 01:13 PM
puddinlegs So who can help me? I'm planning to circumnavigate in a laser. I was planning on using a sunfish, but the rudder broke once. How should I set up a reefing system? What else should I take? hmmm. Maybe a Thistle might be a better choice. How should I install a diesel? Tankage? What do you take for food? I'm ruling out refrigeration to keep things simple. Can anyone tell me if the boat will 'slam' going to weather? By the way, I drive a station wagon. Hope that helps!
08-08-2011 01:12 PM
Boasun
Go or No-go for offshore.

Lets face it. The wise experienced Captain/skipper will not go offshore in foul weather. Which is different of being caught offshore by foul weax.
Then the skills of Capt & crew comes into play on surviving said foul weax.
But one trick that has really kept me in the good graces with God is to go slow. You should not be in a hurry to be any place. Your vessel will have an easier time and less stress by slowing down and riding over the waves and Not Plowing through them. Another thing is not to panic. Panicing is a killer in more ways then one.
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