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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-19-2012 09:46 AM
robinhood007 I'll go for Tapered Mast
01-19-2012 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by Chris12345 View Post
A tapered mast is much better than a straight one, either lighter at the same strength, or stronger at the same weight. Tere is a reason racers pay for them through the nose.
Which of the two advantages yours has you can easily guess if it is a raceboat.

What is your problem with the rod rigging? If it is good, leave it alone!
You can carry a replacement wire, no need to carry a replacement ROD.
One wire that's longer than the longest part of your rigging, and as strong as the strongest (i.e. most likely a second forestay) , plus two do-it-yourself end fittings, and you are set.
I definitely considered your points about the mast! Having raced a car in the past, I understand the situation. And the boat I crewed on was definitely under way more stress than someone casually cruising. The point is becoming moot, I made an offer on the other boat which is coming with more gear. They are both holes in the water where I will throwing money for a while...

Thanks everyone for your excellent insight.

01-17-2012 11:06 PM
Faster We have a dyneema/amsteel backstay on our fractional rig... we have a roachy main and use a whip to ensure the sail clears the backstay on light air gybes and tacks. (Wire would have been too heavy)

Some tech info here:
AmSteel Synthetic Rope Technical Information
01-17-2012 10:28 PM
mikieg dyneema?
01-17-2012 10:12 PM
Liquorice I think the generally accepted spare replacement for standing rigging these days is a coil of Dyneema - such as Amsteel.
UV stable; coils nicely and fits in anywhere; stronger than steel; splices easily as it's single braid!
01-17-2012 02:28 PM
hellosailor gadnagit, spare rod rigging is usually carried by taking a section of rod and coiling it into a large coil. Yes, it is flexible enough to do that, and then stow the coil someplace. Of course you can also temporarily rig a repair with some bulldog clamps and a length of cable, as long as you have a suitable spare for the end fitting.

My impression is that rod rigging will outlast cable in comparable uses. Inspecting it will call for a dye-check of the end fittings and reswaging them is often possible if there's enough extra length (i.e .in the turnbuckles) to allow for that.

But NavTec themselves seem to prefer not to respond to customer emails at all. I tend to look askance at any vendor who can't reply to emails these days, it is no different from throwing out letters or not answering the phone. NOT professional or businesslike conduct.

Maybe as synthetics become more common, they'll just go the way of buggy-whip makers.
01-17-2012 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by celenoglu View Post
the fractional will require more attenttion than the full. ractional rigs are much better for racing but the rig is much prone to failure therefore not recommended for shorthanded cruising.
I would somewhat disagree with the comment that fractional rigs are more prone to failure and are better suited to race boats. Most of the modern cruising designs being built today are being constructed with fractional rigs for a good reason, they are easier to handle, especially in changing conditions, being quicker to power up and down.

Similarly with their comparatively smaller headsails and again with their ability to rapidly adapt without reefing as soon, fractional rigs make an ideal single handling rig, especially when they are designed to avoid overlapping headsails.

I also disagree that Fractional rigs require more attention but here I can also see why someone might say that. As a very broad generality, fractional rigs respond more to changes in backstay tension than masthead rigs and so the backstay is ideally adjusted as windsppeds go up and down. To some that may seem exotic or may seem like adding yet another thing to pay attention to.

But I see this a little differently. When I started sailing in the 1960's, yopu almost never made outhaul adjustments after the sail was up and flying. It was pretty much set and go. Boom vangs were seen as exotic. Today most cruisers would look at a boom vang as a safety item which should be aboard, and by and large, most knowlegeable sailors will adjust the outhaul to the conditions. It would be easy to argue that having a boom vang or adjusting the outhaul requires more attention, but to me these are tools which make sailing easier and at least with the vang, makes the boat a little more forgiving.

In practice neither rig is inherently less reliable or more prone to failure. The likelihood of short service life is much more dependent on the details of the design rather than the choice of rig.

Originally Posted by captflood View Post
GREETINGS EARTHLINGS ; try to find out how old the rigging is and what is the service life of same have it all checked out by someone who knows that type of rigging then try and get it all worn out GO SAFE.
I also want to comment on Captflood's post. The problem with judging rod rigging as is being suggested above is that there is no good way to reliably judge the service life of rod rigging based on the age of the rigging. There are so many variables in the design and installation, let alone use and abuse that a rig might have been subjected to, that the only way to really determine the condition of rod rigging is by careful, removal and inspection, ideally using some of the higher tech inspection techniques, and even so, these are only short term snapshots of how much lifespan is remaining.

As mentioned above, with wire rope you are more likely to have clues that failure may be approaching. With wire, there can be isolated fatique resulting in a here one moment gone the other. As much as I like rod rigging for its lower stretch and predictable elongation characteristics, personnally I don't consider it as reliable as I would want for long-term distance cruising.

01-17-2012 12:00 PM
captflood GREETINGS EARTHLINGS ; try to find out how old the rigging is and what is the service life of same have it all checked out by someone who knows that type of rigging then try and get it all worn out GO SAFE.
01-17-2012 11:56 AM
gadangit Most excellent responses, I really appreciate the input. This forum is great.
01-17-2012 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
The problem with long term and long distance cruising is metal fatigue, especially when the rig tension exceeds 30% ultimate tensile strength of the wire.

Tapered masts have the distinct advantage over 'telephone pole' masts in that they can be radically bowed to accommodate massive draft reduction in mainsail .... much better than reefing when beating in heavy winds, and much better than beating with a reefed main which doesnt dampen the roll period as well as does a 'full-up & board flat' main. Ditto, the same in 'light wind sailing' ... draft reduction to keep separation stalls from occurring; a flat main better keeps the airflow from becoming 'unattached'. A good 'bendy rig' can get the main as flat as a sheet of plywood.

The downside of the tapered mast is that you will be sailing a lot of the time with rig tension exceeding 30% UTS .... and that vastly accelerates fatigue of the wire and its connections. Also too, rod rigging, etc. isnt common and replacement components in probably most of the 'out of the way' and remote port in the world will be impossible.

Rx: The tapered mast is a much better choice for 'coastal' sailing in 'populated' places of the world, especially for FAST 'coastal' sailing in these places; however, if you intend sailing to the more remote places of the planet (where you will be 'entirely on your own') ... then the 'telephone pole' will be a more 'robust' and 'stronger' and 'longer lasting' choice.
Very interesting post, thanks much.
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