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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > An idea for a new voyaging sailboat
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-24-2014 11:34 AM
Dirtyfloats
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

Personally I am all for building custom.
there is something to be said about knowing every little detail of your boat.

That being said, It's a whole new challenge.
One of the hardest parts is listening to everyone tell you that It will cost way more than anticipated. Some of the figures thrown around are absolutley ludicrous. With a little elbow grease, know how, and ingenuitiy an offshore ready boat can be put together much cheaper than some people seem to think.
01-05-2014 08:57 AM
Irunbird
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

I'm not so sure. They seem to be trudging onward- Adventure 40?It?s Happening! Demand for these types of boats certainly doesn't seem to be all that great, but they seem to have enough interest in this project to continue bringing it to fruition. I think they are planning to build the first boat, enter it in the Newport-Bermuda race, then tear it apart to see what needs fixing/bolstering, then begin production. It's slow progress, but I'm not in any hurry. It will probably be another 6 or 7 years before we will sell this boat and buy whatever we settle on by then. We could buy a cheap boat now, and go now, but then I'd lose a pension that I've already worked 22 years for as well as whatever health insurance coverage the government lets us have by that time.. Anyway, these last couple of years, my wife and I have been thinking more about high latitude cruising, so we've been looking more at the aluminum cruisers (Ovni, Allures and Boreal)- I'm saving my pennies!
01-04-2014 09:27 PM
barefootnavigator
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

I find that when you ask somebody if they are interested in XYZ they often say yes but when you ask for money they disappear. Even if 1000 people say yes it doesn't mean a single boat will sell. I'm just saying

It seems with all the great second hand boats on the market and the fact that at least here is the US that the market is on the verge of crashing that there are far too many great used boats to warrant purchasing new for most people.
03-07-2012 10:22 AM
fiberglass1
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

With the number of existing boat builders going out of business these days, I'm surprised anyone would even consider doing something like this. The simplest tooling for a 40 foot boat would be somewhere in the 500,000 to 700,000 range. Shop expenses, tools, personell - figure a minimum of 1.5 mil to get started.
03-07-2012 08:32 AM
Minnewaska
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

IMHO, they are going to need far more than the 200, or even the 500, names to interest an investor. In a global marketplace, that is like getting one person in an office building to say they "might" like something. The the list also needs to be validated. A 15 year old passionate sailor could sign up, without any realistic way to buy.

This reminds me somewhat of the story of the Eclipse Jet. It was presold as an affordable, owner flown, 5 place mini-jet (very light jet as they've become known) that would sell for less than the cost of a twin piston prop plane !! Jets are typically appointed like Bentley's, so this was designed to be appointed more like a Chevy and capture a lower end unserved market.

The company had incredible difficulty producing the aircraft within their estimates and it ultimately went to market at a price roughly 60% above original target. Which, of course, was now more than its comparable piston twin, so they had to change the pitch that got so many interested in the first place. Even if you had a deposit down, you still had to pay the higher price if you wanted one. As a business, having a value proposition that is "lowest cost" is very very dangerous positioning. While the recession played a role, they went bankrupt.
03-07-2012 08:15 AM
PCP
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

This idea is quite odd. The boat market and the number of builders (particularly in Europe) is huge and all try to make the boats as inexpensive as they can and they are made for all purposes including offshore sailing.

There is no way to beat in price manufactures that build about 2000 boats a year and sometimes over 500/year of the same model. This scale permits not only huge discounts in the buying of the components and materials as permits the large scale use of robotics.

The idea is as crazy as someone saying that the cars in the market are expensive and that he can make one cheaper by hand.

There are already a boat that fills or can be easily adapted to fill these needs: A plain efficient boat with a huge stability, an offshore strong boat with a very simple and efficient interior. It is the Varianta 44, made by Hanse and cost less than that: 88 000€

You can only command it by internet and the warranty is given by any good shipyard (with Hanse's approval)

http://configurator.h1706628.serverk...e=2&language=6



The boat has some success among racers but not much in what regards cruisers and that means that the ones that want a sailboat want more than a
very spartan interior, no matter how low the price is.

Regards

Paulo
03-07-2012 07:36 AM
fjonball
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

Overbored: I'd like to know wheter you considered John's idea. Where is the flaw in his argument?

In short the argument goes: 1. The Oceanis 45 costs 225k. The Adventure would be smaller(shorter and narrower), so the price should be possible, from the standpoint of material costs. 2: Cheap blue water cruisers have been thought of, of course, but the case against has been that the market is to small for the volumes needed to push the costs(i.e. initial costs like tooling). By scouting out a market first, investors could be convinced. Right?
03-07-2012 07:26 AM
Irunbird
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

I didn't really say it was a new idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the price goes up a bit (even to $250k or $300k), but I think it's possible if you leave off all the unnecessary junk that makes sailboats considerably more expensive as John explains. I think he's suggesting that if there's enough interest (which may appear to be sustainable and create a good business model), it could be done. I hope it has at least some chance of working out... or I could just buy a 20 year old boat, fix it up and go sailing! This would be a bare-bones cruiser- no watermaker, no genset (so no fridge, heat or a/c).
03-07-2012 02:53 AM
overbored
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

no one has thought about being able to build and sell an affordable blue water boat up until now? wow what a new Idea. I did notice his Idea of having someone else make there small fortune building this boat by spending someone else's large fortune. he has the answer to building the inexpensive boat. the Idea that all the other builders have never thought of. $175 k is a pipe dream, the parts and materials to build a 40' boat will exceed that number before you even start the build.
03-07-2012 12:23 AM
Irunbird
Re: An idea for a new voyaging sailboat

Nothing so far. I think John's idea is to gauge just how much interest there is in a boat like this, then take it to a builder and then designer and get it done. I would hope the capital would follow, which is what the sign up list is all about. I'm sure people could flake out, which is always a possibility, but that's what investors need to figure out for themselves... Stuff like this is still a lot better than going to Vegas for folks like that!
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