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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#2,788 · (Edited)
Performance Island Packet

Big surprise:D: Island packet is going to launch a series of performance cruisers. They will be called Blue Jacket line and will be designed by Tim Jackett (ex-President and Chief Designer at Tartan and C&C) in collaboration with Bob Johnson (CEO and Chief Designer at Island Packet).

The first one is already on its way to production and even if in what regards cabin design I find the boat too classic, not to say old fashioned, in what regards hull design and technical characteristics I love the boat.

Well, the keel could be more modern and efficient (it is similar to the one on my boat) but in what regards all the rest it looks perfect to me. In fact it is very close to the Comet 41s in what regards weight, ballast and hull design. It fits on the Italian way of looking to performance cruisers.

A relatively narrow boat with a good B/D a deep draft (2.30) and a big stability that is the opposite in design conception of the also new Tartan(and the CC121). I like a lot more this one;).

Well, there are some things I don't like: The traveler over the cabin and only one winch on each side of the cockpit that will have to be used for the mainsail and the genoa, but I believe that could be changed if clients ask otherwise.

Technical Characteristics
LOA: 39' 10" (12.14 m)
LWL: 35' 0" (10.67 m)
BEAM: 12' 4" (3.76 m)
DRAFT: 7' 5" (2.29 m) deep
5' 2" (1.56 m) shoal
DISP: 16, 500 lbs (7,484 kg)
BALLAST: 6, 100 lbs (2,767 kg) deep
SAIL AREA: 883 sq ft (82.03 sq m) (100% FT)
MAST HEIGHT: 62' 6" (19.05 m)
POWER: 40 HP (30 kW)
FUEL: 40 US gal (151 l)
WATER: 110 US gal (417 l)
WASTE: 25 US gal (80 l)
SA/D: 21.8
D/L: 172
DESIGNER: Tim Jackett w/Bob Johnson, N.A.



















They say about the boat:

Sailplan and rig:
The large sailplan is a further refinement of the Solent style rig featuring standard double head sails with a working jib and a lightweight 150% reacher that mounts on the integral bow prod, both furled with Harken® systems. The working jib is fitted with a carbon fiber Hoyt Boom® that is self-tending and improves performance with its close sheeting and self-vanging feature while the large reacher boosts performance in light air or when off the wind. The fully battened mainsail is equipped with a standard electric halyard winch and a low friction Battcar system and drops easily into a carbon fiber pocket boom with an integral cover and lazy jack system.

This easily managed rig has ample horsepower and versatility for optimizing performance in a wide range of conditions. All sheets lead to the cockpit near the helm and primary winches for short-handed convenience.
On deck:
On deck, anchor handling has been simplified and made especially convenient with a cleverly designed roller recessed in the bow prod providing secure stowage of the anchor and directing the rode to the anchor locker with a (optional) below deck electric windlass that keeps the deck and profile uncluttered. A deck hatch gives access to this area. Wide side decks with full length raised bulwarks, double lifelines, bow and stern rails and cabin top handrails provide security on deck.

The large cockpit has deep coamings, long seats and twin helm stations with great visibility and ready access to all sail control lines. Seat hatches provide access to storage areas and a (optional) central drop-leaf table makes for a great social area. Hinged transom doors open to the integral stern platform with a retractable swim ladder under a central hatch.

Materials used:
The Blue Jacket's hull and deck are made with a state of the art vacuum infusion process utilizing 100% vinylester resin, quadraxial knitted E-glass reinforcements and a structural foam core. The end result is superior strength and stiffness with significantly reduced weight compared to conventional laminates. …

The use of premium structural foam coring produces better interlaminar bond properties with freedom from potential core deterioration compared to other choices and allows for an industry-best extended hull and deck warranty.


http://www.bluejacketyachts.com/

..
 
#2,789 · (Edited)
Comet 41s



I had said on the last post that it seems to me that some characteristics of the new line of the Island Packet are similar to the ones of the Comet 41s, a boat that has already some years (6). Does that mean that the design of the new performance Island Packet is already dated?

Rarely a 6 years old design remains up to date in what regards sailing characteristics with new models, so when I found out a recent test sail of the Comet 41s (9/2012) I was very curious about what they would say about the boat and if they would feel that the design and sailing characteristics were already dated. I mean, on all the sail tests they said very well about the boat but that was 5 or 6 years ago.

I was very curious because one of the reasons I chose this boat was precisely because it seemed to me that its design was very modern for the time it was designed and that it was still actual.

On other hand, many on this thread had asked me about my impressions on the boat. I had try to comply but I am afraid to be partial (and that is natural) so nothing better than to read what the guys of Yachts and Yachting say about the Comet 41s they have tested last month.

I would say that they confirm many of the things I have said about the boat and in some they are even more optimistic than myself.

The conclusion:

Comet 41S Review: Verdict

Overall it's hard not to be impressed by the Comet 41S. You step aboard wondering 'Why would you when there are many 40-41-footers around?' and step off fully engaged by its subtle, very persuasive charm and good performance.
It's a bit of a statement boat, something different for the discerning owner who does not simply want to follow the crowd. There is so much neat detailing and, for the price, quality workmanship that, for me, it stands out as virtually unique among boats I have tested over the last few years. It comes from a yard which appears to sit comfortably astride the traditional notions of craftsmanship, but still embracing what the contemporary racing sailor wants in terms of modern mid-tech build for performance and strength, well developed and refined layout and a real cruising capacity.


You can read the rest here:

Yachts and Yachting Magazine



....
 
#2,790 ·
I agree that a 6 year design is new. I'm careful to have a strong opinion about the new superwide sterns a-la-Vendee or Volvo. Example, Elan 350. For cruising, I simply cannot viualize them on hard seas, given light displacement too. Must wear seatbelts at the helm, not to fall about 6' vertical to the leeward deck! Good on a Bene Oceanis or Sense, though. Makes a kickass entertainment cockpit at anchor!. Now look at Comet, Salona, and J-Boats for fast & seaworthy shapes. The comet looks very fast and sexy, especially without the Formula 1 rear spoiler.:laugher

One idea for this thread: Paulo, you should post a new thread: Hiring Naval Architect in "Interesting Sailboats". The conversation could get very interesting beyond RM, B/D & SA/D. Hull shapes, payload…

Second idea: The year is coming to an end. THIS THREAD DESERVES A "BOTY AWARDS" SESSION, with categories and all.

Cheers,

Hans
 
#2,791 ·
I agree that a 6 year design is new. I'm careful to have a strong opinion about the new superwide sterns a-la-Vendee or Volvo. Example, Elan 350. For cruising, I simply cannot viualize them on hard seas, given light displacement too. Must wear seatbelts at the helm, not to fall about 6' vertical to the leeward deck! Good on a Bene Oceanis or Sense, though. Makes a kickass entertainment cockpit at anchor!. Now look at Comet, Salona, and J-Boats for fast & seaworthy shapes. The comet looks very fast and sexy, especially without the Formula 1 rear spoiler.:laugher

One idea for this thread: Paulo, you should post a new thread: Hiring Naval Architect in "Interesting Sailboats". The conversation could get very interesting beyond RM, B/D & SA/D. Hull shapes, payload…

Second idea: The year is coming to an end. THIS THREAD DESERVES A "BOTY AWARDS" SESSION, with categories and all.

Cheers,

Hans
Yes , I agree that it looks better without the "Spoiler" but the one that would get the sun on his head is me not you:D.

To that list, I mean similar typed boats, you can join X-Yachts, Luffe, winner, Grand-Soleil, Italia yachts, Solaris and almost all Italian performance boats.

But I would not agree with you that beamy large transom boats are unsafe on hard seas. True that being high up on the deck is a disadvantage and the standard boats don't come equipped with the stuff racers have to deal with it (support for the feet and safety belt) but you can mount it and even if those boats have that problem close upwind in all other sailing positions, specially dead downwind, they are easier and more stable than the type of boats you have mentioned. However it is true that they will be less comfortable upwind.

It is also true that you can go close to the wind at 80% of the boat potential and in that case the heeling of the boat would be a lot less than in one of the boats you have mentioned and you don't have that problem anymore.

Regarding standard boats I have to say that none of the mentioned boats come standard properly equipped for bad weather and I mean fixation points for harness. One of the reasons that I took my boat to Rome (Fumicino) for the winter is to have it equipped with the right stuff and have the job made by Comar guys (the builders of Comet). As you know this is a cored boat with a cored deck and if the job is not well done it will give problems that can be rather bad.

I take the opportunity to recommend the services of Luca, the guy that is in charge of Gestinautica, a small shipyard in Fumicino near Rome. Not only he is good (he is the after sales man from Comar, the one that deals with any problems the boats have) as the prices for his work and for staying on a 9 month basis are very acceptable, not to mention that Fumicino is one of the two Roman airports with easy and inexpensive access from all Europe.

The place is also nice and has a supermarket at only 150m, take a look:





Regards

Paulo
 
#2,792 ·
New solo transat record.

Alex Thompson has done it again: He had skipped (alone) the Hugo Boss (Open 60) to another record and this time a big one, The Solo Transatlantic record.

He did not only beat it he smashes it by a huge margin: more than 24 hours.

The new record it is an incredible time considering solo sailing, just 8 days 22 hours 8 minutes.

Decidedly Hugo Boss and Alex likes to rock in high winds and steep seas.:D

 
#2,793 ·
Paulo,

A thought I had the other day, this comes from an article the UK rag Yachting did a few yrs ago comparing an X34c to a Dehler34 when both came out. I'm wondering if DuFour is not shall I say detuning the rig so they are coming in just under the IRC division that breaks at .95 IIRC, ie the D34/34e being a .94 as you mentioned, so to be in the slower catagory on purpose, hoping that a slightly longer WL boat will make up for lack of SA/D. Xyachts in that article described doing this to a degree, so the X34 would not compete in the same division as the X35! Meanwhile, Dehler took the 34, and upped the SA/D etc so as to get about a .96-.97 rating IIRC, which put it in the next higher/faster division.

With this in mind......could Dufour be purposely sand bagging the speed on that line? Not sure why IMHO, but based on the article I can find online if you need to read it.......I'm inclined to say they have.

Marty
 
#2,794 · (Edited)
Paulo,

A thought I had the other day, this comes from an article the UK rag Yachting did a few yrs ago comparing an X34c to a Dehler34 when both came out. I'm wondering if DuFour is not shall I say detuning the rig so they are coming in just under the IRC division that breaks at .95 IIRC, ie the D34/34e being a .94 as you mentioned, so to be in the slower catagory on purpose, hoping that a slightly longer WL boat will make up for lack of SA/D. Xyachts in that article described doing this to a degree, so the X34 would not compete in the same division as the X35! Meanwhile, Dehler took the 34, and upped the SA/D etc so as to get about a .96-.97 rating IIRC, which put it in the next higher/faster division.

With this in mind......could Dufour be purposely sand bagging the speed on that line? Not sure why IMHO, but based on the article I can find online if you need to read it.......I'm inclined to say they have.

Marty
Maybe, but that is quite stupid for all except the ones that want to win on compensated time no matter if they are slow in real time. For that you can also buy an old and slow boat with a good rating. That's a lot less expensive.

Anyway for doing that you don't need to put more weight on the boat, you can just do that with a smaller mast and less sail area and that's a better solution in what regards making a good sailboat.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,796 · (Edited)
Stephens Waring & White

I love wooden boats and for many years I have signed "Wooden boats" a great magazine if you like classical boats. There are some expensive building techniques that can provide a low maintenance but generally if more traditional methods are used they need a lot of maintenance to remain in top shape (I know I have recovered and owned one for years).;)

If I had the money to pay to a skilled worker to maintain one and the money to maintain it in top shape I would probably fall in love with one. It is easy to fall in love with a wooden boat, they have a soul while plastic ones are just nice boats.

Among the ones that design wooden boats, with a classic look but a modern under-body Stephens Waring & White are among my top list. Just look at some of the boats:













 
#2,800 · (Edited)
New boat: Grand Soleil 43 and GS 39

Now that Dusseldorf is approaching there are more interesting new boats coming to the market (to be presented at the boat show) than the ones I can post. You could give me a help on that;)

Certainly an interesting one is the Grand Soleil 43, especially after the big success of the 39.

Before talking about the 43 some more words about the 39.

When testing the 39 the tester from Yachtingworld mentioned that the boat had a problem on the steering and rudder being to easy to lost control.

I found that rather strange. I have read several other test sails about the boat and nothing was mentioned. Also the number of boats sold seem to indicate that is a very good sailboat. Of course to really know it that is the case I would have to try it but face to the number of other testers that did not mention that and on the contrary say that the steering is very precise I tend to believe that is just that. A racing car has a very light and fast steering, that a casual driver may find to fast and dangerous, it seems to me that it is also the case with the Grand Soleil. Nothing wrong with that if you know how to handle it, in fact the kind of sailors that will buy that boat will be looking for a steering like that.

Of course, I can be wrong, as the other guys that tested the boat, some in muscular circumstances. Anyway, before buying one I would test sail the boat to see if I like it or not but I would say that the chances are that I would like it;). That is my style of boat.

Here you have another test by a Yachts and Yachting. They tested the boat with 6 to 9 K wind (and to be fair they could not have noticed what was referred by the YatchingWorld tester, that tested the boat with more wind. They say about the boat:

It is hard to fault the GS39 for ease of use. It was a delight to sail...the boat has space beyond her size, and yet will be easily sailed by two on extended cruises. ...A stiff, easily driven hull and excellent, high quality sail controls...

Yachts and Yachting Magazine

...........

Now in what regards the new 43 and looking at its technical characteristics I am particularly impressed by the D/B ratio (35%) considering that with that ballast the boat will have a 2m draft and a highly efficient torpedo keel. The ratio is even more impressing if we consider that the hull is not beamy by modern standards, but it not also narrow (4m) and that will give the boat a lot of hull form stability. So this will be a stiff boat, no doubt.

The boat is also light (8800kg) and that with the big stiffness will make it a very fast boat specially upwind on a breeze.

Grand Soleil - Cantiere del Pardo

On the outside it looks like the big brother of the 39 (the designer is the same) and if you liked that one you will like this one. The interior looks just great to me. It seems to be a great performance cruiser.

We will see if the test reports are as good as on the 39 and if the boat is as successful as the 39, that will bring the Grand Soleil shipyard to a very solid position. Is good to remember that some few years back they were almost bankrupt and were saved by Bavaria that bought them. it seems that they have made a great job, better than the one of Hanse with Dehler, maintaining the boat quality and helping them to be competitive again.

Some photos and a video with the first one being built.



















 
#2,801 ·
Hi Paolo,

As you know I have both Pogo and Dragonfly on my shortlist, both very fast boats. I know the DF 32 will be faster than the Pogo 30, I suspect the DF might also be faster than a Pogo 12.50, although not by much. I saw a youtube clip of the mighty fast flagship Pogo 50, from EYOTY testing I think:



Well... maybe I should stick to three hulls :p

//Mr W
 
#2,802 · (Edited)
Trimaran versus fast monohull

Hi, nice video, thanks for posting it!:)

There are no surprises there, at least for me. But they only show few images of both boats upwind and even so you could see that the Pogo points better and it is not properly a boat that points very well.

Here you can see some images of a J122 against a F31, that is probably faster than the Dragonfly 32, where that is evident.



This year I had the opportunity of sailing near a trimaran, I think it was a Corsair 31, both boats close upwind and that was very evident. We arrived at almost time at the same destination. The sea had some short steep waves that seem to slow it down more than they slow my boat and he only went clearly away when he arrive near shore and he got flat water. On worst sea conditions with more wind and waves I am sure I would not only be faster but would have a much more comfortable and drier sailing. After a given limit of sail and sea I can continue safely while he was to look for shelter.

I know we are talking about two different sized boats but a 30ft trimaran costs about the same as a 40ft sailboat and besides that would be the case even with a bigger trimaran:

If we look at the results of races that are made with Trimarans and Monohulls, even if that are downwind sails (transats) we can see that when the weather is ruff an Open 60 can normally beat a 50ft racing trimaran and also that almost all monohulls survive bad weather while the causalities on the trimarans are huge and many abandon with damaged boats or capsizes.

Of course, when they get good weather and relatively flat water the trimarans are much faster;).

So, regarding your choice it all has to do with the use you are going to give to the boat. Sure, a trimaran would be more fun but it has its limitations, specially a small one like the 32 or even more the 27 and I am not talking only about the interior space or price.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,804 · (Edited)
Solaris 37

And since we talk about beautiful Italian boats, one of my favorites. The only thing I don't like is the price:D



And talking about this type of boats, I mean the ones that have a balance in the performances that but more emphasis on the upwind performance (like my own boat) an opposed balance regarding boats like the Pogo or Elan 350 (that favors downwind performance), take a look at the performance of the Solaris 48 in what regards close to the wind sailing.

Of course that is apparent wind, but even so, over 8K at 22/23º of the wind on a performance cruiser:eek: is very good, even in almost flat water.

take a look:



I was impressed with the performance of my own boat (6.5K with 2m waves at 27º of the wind) but I guess that this one in the same conditions will do a lot better;).

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,805 · (Edited)
Hanse 415

Well, I did not have talked much about the new Hanse 415. Now that Hanse and Farevela had put videos on internet its time to make some comments.

First of all let me tell that regarding the Hanse 415 I am partial. It is a love and hate thing. I love some things, like the possibility they have to make you an epoxy hull for not too much money ( I hope they still offer that possibility), the strength of the boat, the B/D ratio and I really dislike the interior and the lack of a proper traveler.

They want to pass the idea that the Hanse is a performance boat, well it is not. It is a relatively heavy boat (8.900kg) and has not much sail (87m2). They claim (on the videos) that the boat is the fastest in its class:rolleyes: ********, many boats are as fast or faster, starting by the jeanneau 409 (7860kg for 78.9m2 of sail) and ending on the new Benetau Oceanis 41 (8.450kg for 83.8 m2 of sail.

Not a big difference between the three boats but the fastest boat in this class is the Jeanneau 409 in its performance version (still not a performance cruiser) with (7450kg and 89.5m2 of sail).

A typical performance cruiser like the Salona 41 has a much bigger SA/D (7450kg for 111.1m2 of sail).

The Hanse has a good D/B ratio a modern keel, a good hull and self tacking head sail (that is also offered by jeanneau and probably by Beneteau). The more substantial difference is the epoxy hull option that I cannot find on the list of options for this model. I hope that they continue to offer it. There are also other differences like beam and B/D ratio.

It is a solid boat, relatively fast as all modern cruisers, solid and well built. It is difficult to chose between the several mass production European cruisers. They are all well designed and the differences are mainly in what regards personal taste and some differences in what regards sailing hardware and also sailing qualities, being the Oceanis and the Hanse the beamier boats (4.2m; 4.17m) and the Jeanneau the narrower with 3.99m.

Regarding B/D the Hanse has 0.326, the Oceanis 0.272 and the Jeanneau as 0.301. The drafts are similar as well as the keels.This will make the Hanse the stiffer boat (beam and B/D ratio) and a very good and fast boat in a breeze but also a seaworthy boat. Of course the Jeanneau is less beamy and that will make it probably a better and more comfortable boat upwind.

As I said a solid boat, not only by build but also on the sea;)













 
#2,806 · (Edited)
Hanse

Hi Paulo

Hanse's new 5 series - 345 which replaces the 355, 385, 415, 445 etc - are aimed at the charter market. Nothing wrong with that but they are definitely more cruiser than performance cruiser. With Dehler being part of the Hanse group, the Dehler is the performance cruiser in the group.

There is a lot to like about the 5 series if you are a cruiser. They all have cockpit tables, all the lines are lead back to the genoa winches for short handed sailing and for seperating the cockpit into a working/chilling area, twin helms for easy access, bathing platforms, self tacking jibs with large mainsails, no travelers in the cockpit. I know that you don't agree with me on this but I like their interiors which are very functional less is more Scandinavian loft type designs which owners can personalize themselves. Performance wise, Judel and Vrolijk have designed fast modern hulls that are a little heavier than the other AWB manufacturers - Dufour excluded - on account of the keel reinforcements in GRP. The increased weight is offset to an extent by having self tacking jibs that are maximised both in terms of size and roach which is controlled by vertical battens. Previous generation Hanses were known for their hull and rig focus but I think this is changing with the new generation.

As you say, it is difficult to distinguish many of the mainstream cruisers these days with personal taste playing the major part. The one part which counts heavily in favour of Hanse is their owners forum which is absolutely invaluable to any owner. The advice is boat specific as well as general and I am sure that there is no problem that cannot be solved collectively.

The Dufour 335 and Hanse 345 I think have some very interesting features for smaller cruisers and are a little ahead of the competition.

All just my opinion of course :laugher
 
#2,807 · (Edited)
Re: Hanse

Hi Paulo

Hanse's new 5 series - 345 which replaces the 355, 385, 415, 445 etc - are aimed at the charter market. Nothing wrong with that but they are definitely more cruiser than performance cruiser. With Dehler being part of the Hanse group, the Dehler is the performance cruiser in the group.

There is a lot to like about the 5 series if you are a cruiser. They all have cockpit tables, all the lines are lead back to the genoa winches for short handed sailing and for seperating the cockpit into a working/chilling area, twin helms for easy access, bathing platforms, self tacking jibs with large mainsails, no travelers in the cockpit. I know that you don't agree with me on this but I like their interiors which are very functional less is more Scandinavian loft type designs which owners can personalize themselves. Performance wise, Judel and Vrolijk have designed fast modern hulls that are a little heavier than the other AWB manufacturers - Dufour excluded - on account of the keel reinforcements in GRP. The increased weight is offset to an extent by having self tacking jibs that are maximised both in terms of size and roach which is controlled by vertical battens. Previous generation Hanses were known for their hull and rig focus but I think this is changing with the new generation.

As you say, it is difficult to distinguish many of the mainstream cruisers these days with personal taste playing the major part.

The Dufour 335 and Hanse 345 I think have some very interesting features for smaller cruisers and are a little ahead of the competition.

All just my opinion of course :laugher
Hi David!

I agree that for most cruisers, that don't value maximum control and performance, a over the cabin traveler is better than a traveler near the wheel since it allow a big bimini. You cannot see properly the sails with that bimini and therefore are not able to trim that correctly at all times but main stream cruisers don't care about that.

Anyway if they are performance cruisers they are looking to the wrong boat.

The problem is that the Hanse, like the oceanis, doesn't have a traveler at all, not even over the cabin, but the same system Oceanis use to control the main sail, a system that is easy but less efficient than a traveler and certainly cheaper. From the mentioned boats only the Jeanneau has a good traveler over the cabin.

Regarding the winches I never sailed the boat but it seems to me that if the rigging is properly organized having the four winches on the cockpit nearer the wheel makes sense and will give a better flexibility to their use allowing to have one for the mainsail and other for the geenaker or a bigger genoa and that is better than what Jeanneau and Oceanis offer. Not has good as what Bavaria offers since it is the only boat that offers has an option the 4 winches on the cockpit and the two over the cabin.

I am curious about the absolute absence of mention about an epoxy hull. Can you ask on the Hanse Forum if that is not offered anymore as an option and if they will make it how much weight saves regarding the standard boat?

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,808 · (Edited)
Hi Paulo

When I was in Croatia last month, I noticed an Elan 350 with a bimini - not a helm bimini - with a slit/opening in it for the main sheet. It is the first time I have seen this.

On our Hanse 350, I have found that if you lead the mainsheet and jib sheet to the genoa winches whilst leaving the coachroof clutches open, I then have all the controls at hand. Even if our bimini is up, I am able to see the sail trim on the main quite easily by looking behind the bimini and up. Whilst I would still prefer a traveller for the control it gives you, it is the best set-up I can get.

The Elan 350 with bimini would be sailed in a similar way,albeit faster and with better control.

I have enquired about the epoxy option from Hanse on the forum - you can follow the responses here

http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7002&PID=53871&#53871

Cheers

David
 
#2,809 ·
Hi Paulo

When I was in Croatia last month, I noticed an Elan 350 with a bimini - not a helm bimini - with a slit/opening in it for the main sheet. It is the first time I have seen this.

On our Hanse 350, I have found that if you lead the mainsheet and jib sheet to the genoa winches whilst leaving the coachroof clutches open, I then have all the controls at hand. Even if our bimini is up, I am able to see the sail trim on the main quite easily by looking behind the bimini and up. Whilst I would still prefer a traveller for the control it gives you, it is the best set-up I can get.

The Elan 350 with bimini would be sailed in a similar way,albeit faster and with better control.

I have enquired about the epoxy option from Hanse on the forum - you can follow the responses here

EPOXY HULL OPTION - myHanse - Hanse Yachts Owners Forum

Cheers

David
Hum, I doubt that set up for the bimini on the Elan 350 works well. Another and more practical solution is asking on a performance cruiser for the traveler to be installed over the cabin and then you can have a big bimini. I don't know if all the cruisers racers will do that but I know that Salona has that as an option.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,811 · (Edited)
Traveler

Well you cannot have all things: A big bimini and a perfect control of the main sail.:D

On the Bavaria 36 I had an over the cabin traveler it was not very big, but I have seen smaller. They are always smaller to the ones on the cockpit and if too small they will be doing almost nothing.

The one on the Jeanneau 409 is big for an over the cabin traveler:



Assuming solo sail, you work with one of those differently, regarding boat control. In a gust you don't open the traveler, but the main sail sheet (from the winch). Basically you work always first with the main sheet and only after you put the boat on autopilot to go forward and adjust the traveler. With the traveler on the cockpit you use first the traveler and only then the main sheet and if needed again the traveler. You use a lot more the travel if it is near you on the cockpit.

Regarding not being able to use the over cockpit traveler with lots of wind I never had the problem. After 13K of real wind you have to use the winches but that's all.

To add a traveler on an existing boat I don't know, it will have to be very well done, the forces are really big. In many boats the deck is cored and you have to know what you are doing to install one and it will not be cheap. It makes a lot more sense have one installed by the shipyard.

Regarding efficiency, if the traveler is not very small it will provide a better control of the mainsail shape, regarding no traveler at all or the system Hanse and Oceanis use on the main sail. In fact a traveler separates too movements: Pulling the sail down (with the mainsheet) and open sideways the angle. without travel those two movements are not separated.

If it is worth the money and effort it depends on you and the way you sail. The difference in speed will only be some tenths of a knot, half knot at most. It all depends how much you like to sail and take the max out of your sailboat. Obviously many of the big brands think that is useless for the type of sailors that buy their boats.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,812 · (Edited)
Rm 1260

Well, if someone likes to sail fast and to trim the sails, wants a fast boat with more space than a true performance cruiser and also a boat already more adapted to offshore cruising (cutter rig and all) I guess the answer in what regards affordable prices is RM.

The nice success they enjoy in France for years among cruisers that really cruise a lot has been expanding all over Europe, first to Nordic countries and it seems that now it is for UK, at least if the interest from sailors is so big as the one that Yachtingworld tester showed for the boat. I hardly remember a so enthusiastic review:D.

Well the boats are great at that is not new. When I test sailed one (the previous model) I was the day before with JPK in its shipyard to see the JPK 110 and casually tell him that next day I was going to sail a RM1200. He said to me it was a great boat for cruising and this guy knows one or two things about boats. I guess that he likes so much the boat that 2 years after he made a sort of more sportive RM, the JPK 380;)

Take a look David, this one has a traveler on the cockpit:cool:



MOVIE:

http://tv.yacht.de/video/RM-1260%3A...xklusiv-Test/02a21796d1aed8c31ce2ef877dcdf454

http://www.allboatsavenue.com/nouve...lun-des-meilleurs-40-pieds-du-marche-europeen

 
#2,813 · (Edited)
ISAF sailor of the year

No, it is not about the sailor that is going to be chosen by ISAF (world governing body for the sport of sailing) as sailor of the year it is about ISAF incompetence.

If we compare ISAF with for instance FIA (Cars federation) we can see that in what regards autosport there are clearly defined levels of competitiveness, from amateur racing to several levels of professional racing that end on one side in the F1 championship and on other on the world Rally championship.

If a driver of the year was chosen among FIA drivers It would certainly be one chosen between the drivers of the top championships. It would be ridicolous that the driver was chosen among one of the initiation classes, like Karting or F3.

In what regards sailing it is a big mess, not only there are not a clear definition of the top classes as ISAF does not have managed to promote real international championships that define those classes.

But if we talk about top classes he will be talking about volvo Ocean race, America's cup and Vendee Globe. The sailors that compete there in many cases were world champions in dinghy classes in their youth before continuing a sailing carer that led them to the top racing classes.

Well, ISAF is so confused and I would say incompetent that not only does not promote sailing as a world competitive global sport as most of the times chose for sailor of the year sailors from the dinghy classes.

It was as if FIA nominated driver of the year a kid from the Karting world championship. That makes no sense but this year ISAF has made even less sense: Among the nominees the name of Franck Camas (that was proposed) was not maintained.

As you all know Frank Camas won the Volvo Ocean race on its first try. Well we could understand that other sailor won the price, but not being nominated?

That's a sympthom as things go wrong in ISAF. The nominees?:

Nathan Outerridge et Iain Jensen (Gold in 49er), Matthew Belcher et Malcolm Page (Gold in 470), Tom Sligsby (Gold in Laser), Loïck Peyron (Jules Verne record) and Ben Ainslie (gold for the 4th consecutive time in laser and finn classes). Ben Ainsle has already been three times ISAF sailor of the year.

Well, going on with that FIA comparison it was like a Kart champion had won for 3 times the title of driver of the year while driving carts. Crazy isn't it? Well somebody should tell Ben Aislie that he has already age to leave the dinghy's and start sailing with the big boys on the fastest and top racing classes, in sailing boats not dinghy's.

Regarding ISAF, it is even worse, somebody should fire them for incompetence:D

,,
 
#2,816 · (Edited)
Comet 41s

When I bought the boat there were a lot of guys that asked information about the boat. I had searched on the internet for a movie and I could only find one about the interior (that I had posted).

Well, now I have found one, In Arabic :D. I will poste it, a bit late, but better late than never:D. You can see some neat features like that one that permits the use of any of the front winches for both sides of the "piano" or the big locker in the back of the boat. Pity they don't show the sails locker that is a unique feature among 40ft performance cruisers.

Guys from Comar said to me that they are maintaining this model but they are going to present a two wheels version soon.

 
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