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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electrical Systems > Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild
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Thread: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-26-2012 10:30 AM
chucklesR
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Tim, I got this from Sandy, another 38 owner on the yahoo forum:

Quote:
The battery box installed in the MK I & MK II is about 11 1/4" wide by about 28" long. It is set on top of a couple 2"x 4" rails attached to the sides of the bilge compartment so there is about 11-12" of space from the bottom of the box to the underside of the sole. The box was designed for 4 group 24 batteries (2 house 2 start). the 6 v Golf Cart (CG-2) batteries have the same footprint but are a bit taller and still fit in most 38 CCs. If you have your water heater mounted in the bilge just aft of the battery box extending the box back can be done once the WH is moved elsewhere. A new box can be made to add maybe one more group 24 (4 for the house and 1 for start) or maybe even a group 27 or 31.

These rails can be removed and lowered to enable taller batteries that are available in 6 v. You can get easy 100 Amp/Hr more using 4 golf cart batteries especially if you lower the box & use those 6 v batteries that are almost 12" tall. 4 of these can get you up close to 500 Amp/Hr for your house bank. Then you need to be able to add another battery for starting. My WH was in the way so I installed a Group 31 in the locker next to the NavSta for start and used 4 GC-2s under the sole for the house bank.

So MaineSail, as usual was right

The most important part is I can lower the rails to make extra depth for 6v's.

I'm going to re-do those rails (and epoxy coat them) and lower them enough to put 4 T-145's in (those are a tad taller) - they will give me 500+ AH in that bank.
I'm not stuck on Trojans, I use them for comparison.

IIRC it's a straight under the sole run from the locker beside the nav station to the engine, so that should do for the starter battery and a simple louver on the bottom will ventilate it.

Initially - due to budget - I'm going to settle for 2 Kyocera 240w's on the Bimini. Not optimal for clear shot to the sun, but it becomes what is possible. I'm hoping to average 150AH a day out of them using a MPPT controller.
That and a Honda 2000 should be enough - provided I carry enough gasoline in jerry cans.

I'm toying with the idea of a inverter/charger - but balking at the expense. I may just stick with the current Xantrex 20 amp. It's small but if I'm at a pier I'll have at least 24 hours to top off.

I'm not sure about a "tower" - but I think I will extend the davits upward via a arch arrangement that spreads to a "Y", and on the "Y" I will either add another panel, or put two up there. Those 240w panels are big - too many would look pretty bad and catch wind like a sail.

Radar, I'm going to go conventional - on the mast just above the spreader.

As it stands my Raymarine e7d chartplotter has built in GPS that works just fine even when it was on the Gemini under the dog house roof. Using the internal GPS saves me a NMEA 2000 port too. I may put a external antenna up on the aft rail just for a backup.
09-22-2012 08:37 AM
TimM
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

1985 Irwin C
Sole battery box dimensions
9 3/8 deep
10 1/2 wide
29 1/4 long
09-22-2012 12:11 AM
TimM
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Chuckles,
What about the auto pilot, radar, lectrasan, water maker,late night 007 DVD, sailnet addiction and power needs of the Admiral? I am in the process of designing my tower but it all has to look good under the panels so in this case size matters. Maybe Bimini array separate from tower array don't know I'm a QE not a EE.

Also where do you think the best place for the radar is? GPS antenna ?

I have a rectangular teak platform I salvaged off an old stink pot. The stern reverse angle will make the usable space of the platform narrower. Think about Bimini tubing/ hardware surrounding the platform for a grab rail and a bow to match the stern radius this should add 5 or 6 inches to the width and give it a custom look. But don't forget the swim latter in the design. Form, fit, and function. Mount some lesser expensive underwater LED's for extended cocktail hour entertainment. I can't wait!

Now that I call elegant engineering! Well said Hellosailor.

I have some really real cool ideas ( not found on the net) for the arch which I am planning to build this fall and would be happy to share my plans and or pictures when complete.
There was a Morgan site that had step by step plans of custom creation but it has disappeared.
Or tower in a box 1500 bucks.
Or you can pay big bucks for a fabricator. I have not seen and any Irwin 38's with custom towers on the net to copy.

Brian, 14x14x11 under 200 bucks in a Irwin condo I call that Ice entertainment.
Looking forward to further collaboration.
Tim
With the right tools and the right friends anything is possible.
09-20-2012 11:19 PM
Cruisingdad
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Panels with multiple Diodes will help with partial shade - "
AFAIK they are trying not to confuse the customers by talking tech, but those panels are actually multiple arrays (i.e. 2-3-4 arrays) joined to a common output through isolation diodes. So if a shadow falls on any one array, that array loses voltage but the others are isolated from it. I'm not sure how much practical value that has though. Consider, if a panel has three "12" volt arrays arranged ||| next to each other. A vertical shadow on one array, will leave two at full voltage. But a horizontal shadow will knock out all three.
So unless the shadow is aligned so as to JUST fall on one array in the panel...with or without isolation diodes, that shadow would still knock down the output from the entire panel, wouldn't it?
I don't know about interlacing diodes, but on my panels, there is a double option to connect to the diode or pass it. It is visible in the connection box. I would wonder why they would take the three panels on that and connect to diodes and then run through yet another diode since it would reduce the effectiveness of the panel with each diode. But I am no expert. ALl I can say is that I have helped install other panels that were not Kyocera and there really is a difference. Not saying they are the best... but they are the best I have come across.

Brian
09-20-2012 11:15 PM
Cruisingdad
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Brian,

As I said above - we are looking at extending / modifying the existing davits - adding an arch essentially - but more.
The current davits will have an arm added to 'extend' the dingy out further from the boat prior to raising/dropping.

We'll need that because I'm adding a 'swim' platform across the stern - 18 inches deep, 8 feet wide. I seriously don't like the idea of leaping from the dinghy to a narrow ladder..

The arch will go up far enough so we can easily com up the ladder and board the boat without UN-necessary wear and tear on my bald head. I'm too old to crawl under a solar panel to get onto the boat.

That arch will also be a good fastening point for the umbrella and screen enclosure that will stretch from bimini to arch - so we can actually use that back deck as a patio.

3 years, a lot of elbow grease - and a couple boat bucks. Wish me luck.
Take a look at Elan... the sailboat modified by Scott and Wendy Bannerot. They wrote the book, "Cruiser's Handbook of Fishing." They modified their stern in a way that I think you might consider. I actually talked to Kris about that tonight. I agree about crawling up that swept back, which is also why I have seen several boats modified into a "modified sugar scoop". Anyways, I am not saying you would want to do what they did... just might give you some ideas. Your boat would be suitable for such a modification I suspect.

Also, if you don't have Scott and Wendy's book... get it. It is to cruisers fishing what Calder is to electrical. Best fishing book I have ever owned.

Look forward to seeing you out here. In all seriousness, let me know if I can help any.

Take care,

Brian
09-20-2012 09:46 PM
chucklesR
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Chuckles-
To me, an engineer is someone who can make extremely clever & elegant use of gears, levers, cams and motions. You might try to look at some scheme that would rotate the davit arms instead of extending them out. i.e.
On Voyage 44 catamarans the boom has an extension that inside the boom.
A simple 2:1 setup pulls the extension out - and springs pull it back in.
The dinghy sits on chocks on the back deck, you lift it, extend it, then drop it.

To me, that's simple, and if it breaks you can still manhandle the dinghy out.

Elegant gears, levers, cams and motions corrode quickly (especially with mixed metals). I'm going to stick with simple and works. Not to mention cost effective.
09-20-2012 09:42 PM
chucklesR
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Panels with multiple Diodes will help with partial shade - "
AFAIK they are trying not to confuse the customers by talking tech, but those panels are actually multiple arrays (i.e. 2-3-4 arrays) joined to a common output through isolation diodes. So if a shadow falls on any one array, that array loses voltage but the others are isolated from it. I'm not sure how much practical value that has though. Consider, if a panel has three "12" volt arrays arranged ||| next to each other. A vertical shadow on one array, will leave two at full voltage. But a horizontal shadow will knock out all three.
So unless the shadow is aligned so as to JUST fall on one array in the panel...with or without isolation diodes, that shadow would still knock down the output from the entire panel, wouldn't it?
Quit trying to confuse the sailors

But yes, absolutely.
In the case of the K's - they are aligned along the length - same orientation as the boom.
09-20-2012 08:49 PM
hellosailor
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Chuckles-
To me, an engineer is someone who can make extremely clever & elegant use of gears, levers, cams and motions. You might try to look at some scheme that would rotate the davit arms instead of extending them out. i.e. the arms rotate inboard and come closer to the transom, rotate outboard and separate and move the dink further astern. Or, the davit arms lift (cable pull) to come in close to the stern, and as they lower, they arc outwards and further away from it. Somewhere in there will be a solution that needs the least weight and still has good strength, as opposed to just extending them.

I saw a Mercedes with a single windshield wiper, in the middle of the windshield base. Somehow that damned thing is cammed up so it moves in a figure 8 and sweeps both sides of the glass! One blade, one motor, hocus-pocus and it does the work of two. Now that I call elegant engineering.
09-20-2012 08:42 PM
chucklesR
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

Brian,

As I said above - we are looking at extending / modifying the existing davits - adding an arch essentially - but more.
The current davits will have an arm added to 'extend' the dingy out further from the boat prior to raising/dropping.

We'll need that because I'm adding a 'swim' platform across the stern - 18 inches deep, 8 feet wide. I seriously don't like the idea of leaping from the dinghy to a narrow ladder..

The arch will go up far enough so we can easily com up the ladder and board the boat without UN-necessary wear and tear on my bald head. I'm too old to crawl under a solar panel to get onto the boat.

That arch will also be a good fastening point for the umbrella and screen enclosure that will stretch from bimini to arch - so we can actually use that back deck as a patio.

3 years, a lot of elbow grease - and a couple boat bucks. Wish me luck.
09-20-2012 08:38 PM
hellosailor
Re: Irwin 38 CC Battery and Charge rebuild

"Panels with multiple Diodes will help with partial shade - "
AFAIK they are trying not to confuse the customers by talking tech, but those panels are actually multiple arrays (i.e. 2-3-4 arrays) joined to a common output through isolation diodes. So if a shadow falls on any one array, that array loses voltage but the others are isolated from it. I'm not sure how much practical value that has though. Consider, if a panel has three "12" volt arrays arranged ||| next to each other. A vertical shadow on one array, will leave two at full voltage. But a horizontal shadow will knock out all three.
So unless the shadow is aligned so as to JUST fall on one array in the panel...with or without isolation diodes, that shadow would still knock down the output from the entire panel, wouldn't it?
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