SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Chat  
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Production Boats and the Limits
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
1 Hour Ago 04:49 PM
clmartin0721
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
And yes, even when full-time cruising you will generally spend more days at anchor or tied to a dock than out sailing, but that only makes the case for me to have a tidier, more organized interior space
Totally agree with this. Actually, I consider it a safety issue.

I certainly wouldn't even to WANT to try and duplicate lubber life when cruising. I actually have more of a minimalist approach. This is why it's good we are starting on a smaller boat. It forces us to adapt to less and to be smarter concerning storage. Also, we are cruising in an area where spares are easy to come by, so I don't need to get too crazy with those. (Because I will...it's in my nature ) Now if I were cruising in remoter areas, or on longer passages, I would have to rethink this somewhat.

I will use the V berth for overflow storage underway for now, but I am in a little boat She has a LOT of storage space for her size though.
1 Hour Ago 04:31 PM
Exile1
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
As I said, we don't sleep in the centerline bed while off-shore. We use our proper sea-berths in the salon - and/or the v-berth. The centerline bed, however, is freakin' awesome at the dock and at anchor. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Doing it this way means you have it great both ways - and, anyway, rigging lee-cloths in the salon of my Hunter is WAY easier than knocking out a couple of walls in the back of an older BW boat to enjoy more room...or worse, just living with it.

On the stowage - I haven't run into a problem yet. I'll let you know if it becomes one.
Makes sense on the sleeping arrangements. The v-berth is almost as bad as the aft cabin because of the motion so the salon is usually the best choice.

Could be your older Hunter has more stowage space than than the newer designs.
1 Hour Ago 04:20 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile1 View Post
Like you, my aft centerline queen was a big attraction when I first saw the boat at the dock, but once I started doing multi-day passages and anchoring out a lot I'm no longer so sure. If I've overlooked a way to rig lee cloths let me know, but I don't see any way to do it on my boat (or that Hunter in the pic) w/o pad eyes through-bolted on the cabin top. The mattress itself can be folded down the middle fore/aft so no problem on that end. Just no pole or other near-centerline fixtures I can see tying off to. Then again, the amidships salon is a better place to sleep, and the noise from the AP is a problem in the aft cabin as Jon points out.

As for stowage, I much prefer losing some interior space for the sake of secure storage areas. The stuff is going to take up space either way, right? Why not have it properly stowed vs. living on top of it? Having it everywhere might be OK if it's soft stuff like sails & duffle bags, but the more long-distance sailing you do the more hard, heavy parts like tools & engine spares you'll likely accumulate. I don't quite understand this trend towards gunwale to gunwale open space. Don't you guys already have plenty of space in your living & bedrooms at home?
As I said, we don't sleep in the centerline bed while off-shore. We use our proper sea-berths in the salon - and/or the v-berth. The centerline bed, however, is freakin' awesome at the dock and at anchor. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Doing it this way means you have it great both ways - and, anyway, rigging lee-cloths in the salon of my Hunter is WAY easier than knocking out a couple of walls in the back of an older BW boat to enjoy more room...or worse, just living with it.

On the stowage - I haven't run into a problem yet. I'll let you know if it becomes one.
1 Hour Ago 04:17 PM
Exile1
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by clmartin0721 View Post
As I have been looking at bigger boats, the wife REALLY likes the designs that are a little more open. On a longer cruise of say a year or more, isn't the majority of time spent at anchor in port vs. on passage? I could have that totally backwards.

If that is the case, I could see sacrificing some of the dedicated stowage space to a more comfortable cabin at anchor. Especially if the boat IS your living room and bedroom.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
That's what sells at the Boat Shows, and looks best in the brochures... Most buyers of new boats today are attempting to DUPLICATE what they have at home, after all - it's the only way many can drag the ladies along for the ride...

Next question?

;-))
clmartin -- as Jon E. points out, what sells at boat shows and looks appealing at the dock may not work out as well if you're intending to cruise full-time or even just do multi-day passages. Even though you'll get better at paring things down, there will be still be a surprising amount of "stuff" you'll want to bring along that has to go somewhere. By making modern boats more beamy & spacious, mfgs. are giving the illusion of more space but you feel differently about how much room you really have once it is filled up with your "stuff." And yes, even when full-time cruising you will generally spend more days at anchor or tied to a dock than out sailing, but that only makes the case for me to have a tidier, more organized interior space. But that's just me, and obviously others find the new designs more attractive. You have to bear in mind, however, that most boats rarely go anywhere, and thus more open space is appealing for those who wish to entertain more at the dock.
1 Hour Ago 04:12 PM
clmartin0721
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Med Sailor,

Quote:
As someone who's lived aboard 10 years I have a hard time swallowing the idea of giving up so many comforts (in design compromises) just for the small period of time that you're offshore. In fact my signature used to say that my boat would loose against yours sailing to windward but would "outperform" yours at anchor.
That is TOO funny,
I am afraid I am going to have to steal your old signature line

I am trying to find a balance between the two extremes, which seems to be a bit of a challenge. My approach will ultimately boil down to one of two paths;

1. Buy a boat with the offshore qualifications and rebuild the cabin as required
2. Buy a boat with the cabin layout and keel configuration, and upgrade the offshore
equipment and systems.
1 Hour Ago 04:01 PM
MedSailor
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by clmartin0721 View Post
As I have been looking at bigger boats, the wife REALLY likes the designs that are a little more open. On a longer cruise of say a year or more, isn't the majority of time spent at anchor in port vs. on passage? I could have that totally backwards.

If that is the case, I could see sacrificing some of the dedicated stowage space to a more comfortable cabin at anchor. Especially if the boat IS your living room and bedroom.....
This is a belief I've held for a LONG time, that too much is sacrificed for the 1% of the time that you're offshore. If you read Eric Hiscock, for example, everything about the boat design (and I mean EVERYTHING) is designed around what life is like offshore.

As someone who's lived aboard 10 years I have a hard time swallowing the idea of giving up so many comforts (in design compromises) just for the small period of time that you're offshore. In fact my signature used to say that my boat would loose against yours sailing to windward but would "outperform" yours at anchor.

However....

You've no doubt heard lots of stories of people hitting Epirbs in non-life threatening situations and heard the tales of people who sold it all and they (or the crew/family) bailed on the voyage and now the boat sits for sale in Mexico.

If the boat is a total floating gin palace with NO regard paid to the Hiscock-type offshore design characteristics then you risk your offshore passages and foul weather being SO miserable that they might make the crew hate the whole experience and give up on it entirely.

It's also hard for me to ignore the advice of so many that HAVE a lot of sea miles under their belt. Most of them aren't screaming for bigger bunks, but rather are advocating better offshore characteristics. They're living aboard too, and have to live with their compromises, but this is consistently what I hear.

So pick your poison, but as in most things, the answer for most people usually lies somewhere in the realm of moderation rather than at any of the extremes.

MedSailor
1 Hour Ago 03:58 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile1 View Post
I don't quite understand this trend towards gunwale to gunwale open space. Don't you guys already have plenty of space in your living & bedrooms at home?
That's what sells at the Boat Shows, and looks best in the brochures... Most buyers of new boats today are attempting to DUPLICATE what they have at home, after all - it's the only way many can drag the ladies along for the ride...

Next question?

;-))
2 Hours Ago 03:47 PM
clmartin0721
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

As I have been looking at bigger boats, the wife REALLY likes the designs that are a little more open. On a longer cruise of say a year or more, isn't the majority of time spent at anchor in port vs. on passage? I could have that totally backwards.

If that is the case, I could see sacrificing some of the dedicated stowage space to a more comfortable cabin at anchor. Especially if the boat IS your living room and bedroom.....
2 Hours Ago 03:41 PM
clmartin0721
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

To Smackdaddy

You may be one of the neophytes, but you strike me as someone who has a grip on the realities of the requirements of that bigger vessel. I personally believe that experience is ALWAYS the best teacher, but that experience should be gained in controller, measured steps. I actually am looking at making the same sort of transition you did, I am currently in the initial search stages for my next boat, and I am looking in the 40-45' range.

I don't think the size of the boat is the issue (until you try to dock it the first few times) as much a the situations we put ourselves in. I would be perfectly comfortable taking a 40' boat out on Galveston bay in 12-20 kt winds with less than 3' swells. But taking it cross Gulf? No way....not yet. But I'll take my little boat right now, because I know I can handle her if I make a mistake.

For example, If the crew were to accidentally dump the mainsail (because I would NEVER do something like this...)I know I can manhandle it in and get sorted. Not so easy with a much bigger sail. There are tons of examples, but the point is clear.

However...I want a bigger boat too, and will get it when the opportunity presents itself. I am sure I'll be timid in it at first though...
2 Hours Ago 03:11 PM
Exile1
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
+100.

On every off-shore race/delivery I've done, we (crew of up to 6 people in a race) sleep in the salon with lee cloths, etc. rigged. It's worked great. Every once in a while with a big crew, someone would end up in the v-berth...but it's usually packed with everyone's gear so that was rare.

It's very easy to rig up good sea berths on virtually any boat with a salon. And most boats have salons. So this long-held argument against centerline beds is pretty weak.

That's another reason I don't completely buy the "stowage" issue either. In most all boats I've been offshore on - including BW boats like a Pacific Seacraft 37 or Pearson 365 - you ALWAYS have stuff piled somewhere...the v-berth, pilot berth, whatever. There's just NEVER enough room to neatly tuck absolutely everything away.

So, again, when I had the option to buy a Hunter 40 with its aft centerline queen - I jumped on it. It's exactly what I wanted...over boats like the PSC37 or P365. It's a much more comfortable boat overall. And I still have a great deal of storage that I've been slowly filling up.
Like you, my aft centerline queen was a big attraction when I first saw the boat at the dock, but once I started doing multi-day passages and anchoring out a lot I'm no longer so sure. If I've overlooked a way to rig lee cloths let me know, but I don't see any way to do it on my boat (or that Hunter in the pic) w/o pad eyes through-bolted on the cabin top. The mattress itself can be folded down the middle fore/aft so no problem on that end. Just no pole or other near-centerline fixtures I can see tying off to. Then again, the amidships salon is a better place to sleep, and the noise from the AP is a problem in the aft cabin as Jon points out.

As for stowage, I much prefer losing some interior space for the sake of secure storage areas. The stuff is going to take up space either way, right? Why not have it properly stowed vs. living on top of it? Having it everywhere might be OK if it's soft stuff like sails & duffle bags, but the more long-distance sailing you do the more hard, heavy parts like tools & engine spares you'll likely accumulate. I don't quite understand this trend towards gunwale to gunwale open space. Don't you guys already have plenty of space in your living & bedrooms at home?
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.