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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-17-2012 11:05 AM
Melrna
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Aluminium are you sure? It is not a good material for tanks. Why aluminium in an heavy boat and not stainlesssteel or even plastic?

What do you mean by no access do you mean you cannot inspect or clean them? That is hard to believe. Diesel tanks have to be inspected and cleaned regularly.

Regards

Paulo
It is exactly what I mean. I could not find any access plates, Nada.
10-16-2012 08:42 PM
Minnewaska
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute_ZS View Post
While I agree with all your other points (I deleted them to save room), I have to disagree with this one. Bamboo is actually considered a hardwood in most flooring. Depending on the lay of the grain and methods of flooring, it can be harder than golden teak but not as hard as Brazilian. Still, I'd say it's no slouch when it comes to hardness.......
Perhaps there are different grades of bamboo. I concluded that because I have bamboo floors in our home and completely regret it. They aren't just scratched, they are actually dented by everything placed upon them. Since my boat takes much more abuse than my home, I don't think they would fair well. The big advantage of bamboo is it regrows extremely fast, so its considered sustainable.
10-16-2012 08:31 PM
PCP
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
...
I think that this is an inherently short sighted and bad design. How difficult would it be to have the chainplates mounted outside the knee wall with the bolts showing in the cabin?
You mean, like most builders do?
Well, than would not be a IP anymore They do things differently.

Regards

Paulo
10-16-2012 08:27 PM
PCP
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
....

What strikes me, however, is the visual similarities to the boats, and how closely they resemble one another to my eye...

....

... And I'm really perplexed why the drawings show only 2 cockpit primary winches, what are you supposed to do with the mainsheet when you're flying the reacher?
I agree with you. I guess the two boats are aesthetically very conservative and are aimed to US clients that are supposed to be more conservative than Europeans or at least is what jackett thinks. well that is changing and I don't know if that is true anymore.

I don't like the old conservative look in any of the boats. It is not easy to manage to have a classic look in a modern boat. You have to know how to mix traditional elements with modern ones. In my opinion they have not succeed. This one looks a bit better than the Tartan that looks really funny with that big transom in classic disguise.

I have posted about the BlueJacket in the interesting boats thread and said the same thing you said about the winches. Sure, they have a kind of self tacking head sail but for the Geenaker or Spinaker they would need another pair of winches. I guess they sell it like that standard and if you want to have a geenaker (that evidently the clients of that type of boat will want) they will sell you two more as an option. That way the boat is apparently less expensive

Regards

Paulo
10-16-2012 07:39 PM
CalebD
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Tartan was encapsulating the chainplates in FRP on the 27' back in the 1960's. I suppose it seemed like a good idea at the time, the thinking being that: "Moisture will never get in there." The current owners of these old boats know better. Moisture found a way in there and it turns out that stainless steel (no matter what alloy) will crevice corrode and even rust when surrounded by moisture without the presence of air. The SS bolts used to anchor the chainplates could rust badly and any wood used in the knee wall fabrication will turn back into soil.
I think that this is an inherently short sighted and bad design. How difficult would it be to have the chainplates mounted outside the knee wall with the bolts showing in the cabin?
10-16-2012 07:39 PM
JonEisberg
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronbo1

I was disappointed that Island Packet's new Blue Jacket wasn't available yeti. Though the economy is still sluggish IP may be positioned for the recovery.

Ronbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg
Well, you could have just had a look at the Tartan 4000 instead, the 2 boats are strikingly similar... Aside from the addition of a Hoyt jib boom, and shaft propulsion in lieu of a saildrive, there's very little apparent distinction between the two...
Jon, Similar? What do you mean? it seems to me that the only thing in what they are similar is the Length and the draft.

The hulls are completely different, Blue jacket is a lot less beamier, it is even narrow for a modern 40ft. It has less 20cm of beam than the Tartan and that is a lot in a 40ft.

The Blue Jacket is also 1300kg lighter and the is a huge difference in a 40ft sailboat.

The BlueJacket has a substantially superior B/D ratio (0.369 to 0.326).

In fact the boats will have a very distinct behavior in the water, being the Bluejacket a faster and better upwind boat, with a more comfortable sea motion. The Tartan will be more stable downwind and will sail with less heel.

Regards

Paulo
All very good points, Paolo - you're right, of course, there are significant differences between the two...

What strikes me, however, is the visual similarities to the boats, and how closely they resemble one another to my eye...

The portlights in the deckhouse, for example - virtually identical... 2 smaller forward, 3 slightly larger, one smaller aft... The cockpits, with the twin canted pedestals, and fold-down transom steps, very much alike... The rigs are quite similar, I can't think of any other American builder currently offering that rig, with the Park Avenue boom, German mainsheet setup, etc... Those are all things that were heretofore somewhat proprietary or unique to Tartan (again, at least among American builders), and now "imported" by Jackett to IP...

I agree that this looks like a very sweet boat, I'll be looking forward to seeing it, for sure... I've always loved Jackett's interiors, I think his use of angles really works, and certainly makes them more interesting visually. I don't get the twin aft staterooms on a performance-oriented boat, however, I much prefer the Tartan 4000 layout in that regard. And I'm really perplexed why the drawings show only 2 cockpit primary winches, what are you supposed to do with the mainsheet when you're flying the reacher?

Minor details, I know... What's most interesting about this boat, perhaps, is what it represents about the new direction IP is taking, and whether there really is a market share out there to be captured? In my observation, IP owners in general are not looking for performance, and to those more concerned with such, Island Packet is most definitely not the first "brand" that comes to mind... (grin)
10-16-2012 07:23 PM
PCP
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
.. ALL tanks, fuel, water and waste under the floor with NO access to them. The tanks are all aluminum with no way of inspecting, taking them out for replacement, and in some cases cannot change out the hoses. ... Furthermore the holding tank is under the master cabin bed! NO Thank You!. What a crappy design. :>(
I wanted to see if the Blue Jacket had any of those two items built into the boat.
Aluminium are you sure? It is not a good material for tanks. Why aluminium in an heavy boat and not stainlesssteel or even plastic?

What do you mean by no access do you mean you cannot inspect or clean them? That is hard to believe. Diesel tanks have to be inspected and cleaned regularly.

Regards

Paulo
10-16-2012 07:14 PM
Resolute_ZS
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
*snip*

With regard to teak and holly floors, I'm starting to see bamboo with teak inlay floors. While water resistant, I think bamboo is a horrible material for a boat, especially a floor. Its too soft.
While I agree with all your other points (I deleted them to save room), I have to disagree with this one. Bamboo is actually considered a hardwood in most flooring. Depending on the lay of the grain and methods of flooring, it can be harder than golden teak but not as hard as Brazilian. Still, I'd say it's no slouch when it comes to hardness.

Sorry for the large(ish) image but it shows a good comparison of flooring hardness ratings. Another advantage of Bamboo is, as you mentioned, the water resistance. All the above noted - that doesn't mean I'm a bamboo fan either!

lumberliquidators.com/assets/images/landing_pages_promos/starthere/Janka_Ratings.jpg

*edit* - apparently I don't have enough posts for an image. There's the link up there for those who want to cut and paste.
10-16-2012 06:24 PM
JulieMor
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

From what the rep on the Sabre said, the chainplates on the 456 are encapsulated. He talked about how this feature meant any water leaking in at the chainplates won't seep through to the woodwork, ruining it. I pictured moisture gathering around the encapsulated chainplates and just sitting there, bathing the metal in a permanent bath.

Maybe I misunderstood him.
10-16-2012 06:21 PM
Nicklaus
Re: What I learned at the Annapolis Boat Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Furthermore the holding tank is under the master cabin bed! NO Thank You!. What a crappy design. :>(
"Crappy" design indeed. My holding tank is under my V-berth as well. Frees up some easily accessible storage space further aft but not an ideal napping spot on a hot August day if you havenít paid it some attention in the last few days.
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