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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > diesel fuel
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-15-2012 08:02 PM
silverbeard
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
From my understanding off road diesel is ethanol free, whereas (vehicle) gas stations may be selling you e- diesel, with as much as 15% ethanol. Marine stations "supposedly" sell only ethanol free diesel.

E diesel is a blend of standard No. 2 diesel fuel containing up to 15% ethanol and a proprietary additive to maintain blend stability and certain fuel properties, which may comprise from 0.2% to 5.0% of the blend. Currently, E diesel fuels are considered experimental and can be used legally in off-road applications. Special permission must be obtained from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for on-road use.
10-15-2012 01:37 PM
bjung
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
This is correct off road diesel is the same as on-road. The dye is added by the distributor as are the ValvTect products.
From my understanding off road diesel is ethanol free, whereas (vehicle) gas stations may be selling you e- diesel, with as much as 15% ethanol. Marine stations "supposedly" sell only ethanol free diesel.
10-14-2012 10:55 AM
HBar50
Re: diesel fuel

Jet A and A-1 are for all intensive purposes high quality kerosene. Very similar to #1 Diesel fuel but do not have any additives to improve lubricity. Also cetane is uncontrolled so it very well may not meet minimum specifications.

What does that mean...It will run, you will burn more of it, create more heat, probably void any warranty you have on your engine, and increase wear on injectors and your injection pump.

From Chevron:

Jet A & Diesel No. 1 1.33
Diesel No. 2 3.20

Jet A and Diesel No. 1 tend towards lower viscosities. Lower lubricity is likely as the viscosity decreases. While this may not cause catastrophic instant damage, it could cause long-term wear of pumps, etc.

Jet fuels have additional specifications that aren't required of diesel fuels. A couple examples of these are the requirement of testing for certain components and a volatility requirement. Some of the methods for testing also vary from one fuel to the other. Basically, however, we have pointed out the biggest differences. If you need more detailed comparisons, please contact the ASTM society at their headquarters at 100 Barr Harbor Drive, West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania 19428. They could provide you with copies of the specifications. Their phone number is 610-832-9500.

Once again, we stress that you should contact the equipment manufacturers and ask what fuels are proper for use in the engines you are curious about. Also, you must make certain you are not breaking any legal regulations."

So the bottom line is that although Jet-A may not cause immediate damage to a diesel engine and may allow the engine to run OK, its use may cause premature wear or fouling of the fuel system, and you may be breaking EPA regulations as well as not paying appropriate taxes. Outside the US, differences in viscosity still mean that the use of Jet-A for Diesel No. 1
may cause early wear of the fuel system. Kind of like running 10 weight oil in a car designed for 30 weight. So how much risk are you willing to take, because no engine manufacturer or fuel supplier will take part of the risk?


Diesel vs Jet Fuel
A New Diesel Fuel Additive Requirement
ASTM D-975, the ASTM standard for diesel fuel, is being modified to include a specification on diesel fuel lubricity. Lubricity is the fuel quality that prevents or minimizes wear in diesel fuel injection equipment. Diesel lubricity is largely provided by trace levels of naturally occurring polar compounds which form a protective layer on metal surfaces. Refinery hydrotreating processes which reduce the sulfur content of diesel blend components also remove these polar compounds. As a result, most of the diesels produced by refineries to meet January 1, 2006 ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) sulfur specifications will not have adequate lubricating properties to meet the new ASTM lubricity specification.
Baker Petrolite is a leading provider of diesel lubricity improvers, fuel additives that restore the lubricating properties of severely hydrotreated diesel fuels. These additives have traditionally been added at the refineries producing the fuels.

In 2004 some major U.S. finished fuel common carrier pipeline companies announced that they would not allow the transport of diesel fuels already treated with lubricity improvers. This is due to their concerns about “trail back” of the lubricity additive into jet fuel tenders following the additized diesel, which are not allowed to contain these additives. As a result, most lubricity additive usage in the U.S. will take place at fuel terminals.
10-14-2012 08:44 AM
SlowButSteady
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by H and E View Post
I use Jet A aircraft fuel because it will stay fresh longer. I only consume about 15 to 20 gal a year. Not sure I know what the additives are but they seem to work well.
When I was in college I worked for a ground handling agency at Oakland International Airport. We ran Jet A in our diesel ground units all the time. It worked fine on a short-term basis. However, our mechanics claimed that over the long term diesel was better in certain diesel engines because of lubrication issues.
10-14-2012 07:43 AM
Maine Sail
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBar50 View Post
"Farm Diesel" = Off Highway use diesel, red dye. Same as recreational marine diesel. Until recently had a higher sulfur content. As not as much is sold at the gas station may be stale and already have the diesel bug.

Recreational marine diesel = the same fuel, although some vendors (Valvetect, etc) add an antimicrobial additive to kill the diesel bug. Red dye (No highway tax)
This is correct off road diesel is the same as on-road. The dye is added by the distributor as are the ValvTect products. A few years ago there were differences because off road was LSD and on-road ULSD but now all are are required to be ULSD.

The distributor up this way, who supplies most of the marinas, pulls the same fuel from the same tanks but off road gets red dye and ValvTect dealers get the ValvTect additives... The dye is only there to signify non-road taxed fuel.

As for diesel bug many marinas turn fuel over at a faster clip than a station selling diesel, unless its a truck stop..
10-14-2012 07:13 AM
H and E
Re: diesel fuel

I use Jet A aircraft fuel because it will stay fresh longer. I only consume about 15 to 20 gal a year. Not sure I know what the additives are but they seem to work well.
10-14-2012 06:56 AM
bjung
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBar50 View Post
"Farm Diesel" = Off Highway use diesel, red dye. Same as recreational marine diesel. Until recently had a higher sulfur content. As not as much is sold at the gas station may be stale and already have the diesel bug.
I think that is a generalisation. "Off-road" diesel is perfectly fine, provided the station moves enough to have a fresh supply, which is always the case in a farming community. I have never plugged a filter with off road, however have not been so lucky with marine gas stations. An anti microbial agent should be added no matter what the source, as the algae could already be growing in your tank.
10-14-2012 04:13 AM
HBar50
Re: diesel fuel

"Farm Diesel" = Off Highway use diesel, red dye. Same as recreational marine diesel. Until recently had a higher sulfur content. As not as much is sold at the gas station may be stale and already have the diesel bug.

Recreational marine diesel = the same fuel, although some vendors (Valvetect, etc) add an antimicrobial additive to kill the diesel bug. Red dye (No highway tax)
10-13-2012 10:39 PM
silverbeard
Re: diesel fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDChopper View Post
Watch your filters if your going to use "farm diesel" just fyi.....

The color is for taxing the fuel you get caught using the wrong color on the hiway You Will Pay big time.

The rest are correct about sulfer content.
What in the world is "farm diesel" and why should I watch my filters if I use it? Just asking.
10-13-2012 09:57 PM
HDChopper
Re: diesel fuel

Watch your filters if your going to use "farm diesel" just fyi.....

The color is for taxing the fuel you get caught using the wrong color on the hiway You Will Pay big time.

The rest are correct about sulfer content.
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