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Mast climbing

10K views 61 replies 23 participants last post by  JonEisberg 
#1 ·
I'm about ready to get what I need to climb a mast.
I'm thinking of the harken seat as it got a good review from PS an is priced well.

I'm thinking of going with two ratchet blocks as this allows me to climb the mast with a 4 to 1 advantage by myself with no one winching me up..

What you do is use the halyard to hoist up the top block then hook the bottom block to your bosen's chair and just pull yourself up. The block with the becket is on the top so you have a 4 to one advantage.

Both blocks are ratcheting blocks. The top block is set on ratchet all the time.

The bottom block you can turn the ratchet on and off.

The way it works is that on the assent you have the bottom ratchet turned on.
Depending on your weight if you let go you will either stay in place or go down slowly.
To descend just turn off the ratchet of the bottom block and your weight will overwhelm the upper ratchet and you will descend.

You loose a few inches because of the blocks and I would bring a couple of foot straps just in case I needed to get a little higher.

I considered the ATN system but the above system while being a little more money requires less skill, I believe coming down would be faster and it can double a man-overboard retrieval.

I got the idea from at least two riggers I know who use the same system.
My son who is rigger personally uses a system with acenders similar to the the ATN but with extra gear so he can drop in about five seconds which is important to him. I tried it using his equipment and talked to a couple of his friends and my take is that the acender system requires some practice skill and strength all of which I'm afraid I may never have.
His boss and another rigger in the yard uses the ratchet block method above.

I am pretty happy with the blocks I've selected but was surprised that they are only good for 1,200 lbs. This means that my block system would be good for the following jobs.
  • Lifting a small motor
  • Taking the slack out of a shroud until I could get it pinned.
  • Lifting a MOB

Basically anything I could lift by hand. If I can pull 150 lbs which I probably can't I'm lifting less than 600 which is significantly below the working load.

If I get cliver however and use the winch I'm pretty sure I could exceed the block loading spec. I would be afraind to trust it with my life if it was overloaded.

I would be willing to spend more for higher capacity blocks as even simple double braid is rated at 7,100 breaking so doing a 50% load of 3,500.00 on a 4 to one load would be about 7 ton.

That kind of block and tackle system could be used for serious work. Like moving the boat for example. I can not find ratchet blocks that can handle that however.

I'm thinking of going to a 7/16" 12 strand arborist line as I'm pretty sure the hand is better and it bag stuffs with little chance of knotting and the price is not too much more than double braid.
 

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#2 ·
I use a couple of prussic loops and my climbing harness but that looks much easier (and vastly more expensive). Not sure that I'd trust the ratchet on the blocks enough to let go though, presumably you have a safe way of tying/locking for when you are at the desired work position and want to use both hands?
 
#5 ·
Yes this system is a lot easier on the muscles and a lot more expensive.

Yes also about belaying the line once you get to where you need to be. The point is that you don't have to hold the full weight all the time.
And also if something goes wrong the downward free fall is purported to be slow enough to just grab the line somewhere without damaging the hand. I'll let you know when I give it a try.
 
#6 ·
Yes I considered the ATN, even mentioned it in my original post. The advantage is that it takes less room, only 70' of line rather than 350'.
I'm not convinced that with my fitness level, age, weight number of times I'll have to practice it that I will be able to use it effectively.
The disadvantage is that coming down is slow and it is only good for one thing.

The ratchet block is easier, I think, for old fat people. Can be used for several things and coming down is faster.

The nose above the mast head problem I believe I can solve with a prussic and foot loop.
 
#4 ·
I use something similar, but a true climbing harness I have from REI. I then run the tail end of the pulling rope around my back side thru carabeners, this will usually brake your self to a degree, if you let go. If not, then use 3 or 4 biiners, with the last on your front side. This is done in climbing also when belaying some someone. A lot like a wrap on a winch drum, but the drum being your waist.

I attach the top sheave to the snap shackle, the bottom to my harness also via a locking beiner vs a standard snap one, The bottom side I use 2 singles that are also used in climbing, as the sides will slide sideways to release them from the middle of the line. They do have a bit more drag than a typical double sailing pulley.

Marty
 
#7 ·
I then run the tail end of the pulling rope around my back side thru carabeners, this will usually brake your self to a degree, if you let go. If not, then use 3 or 4 biiners, with the last on your front side. This is done in climbing also when belaying some someone. A lot like a wrap on a winch drum, but the drum being your waist.

Marty
Do you have a picture or sketch of this setup?
 
#12 ·
David,

just checking in before going to sleep, I'll see if I can find a pic of how I do this from a wrap standpoint, or Ishould be back a the boat tomorrow sunday, I'll see if I can get a pic to show how. Takes four beiners around the harness. One in the front, back and ea side.

Marty
 
#15 ·
David,

just checking in before going to sleep, I'll see if I can find a pic of how I do this from a wrap standpoint, or Ishould be back a the boat tomorrow sunday, I'll see if I can get a pic to show how. Takes four beiners around the harness. One in the front, back and ea side.

Marty
Very few climbing harnesses have gear loops that are rated for full weight! Be very careful that you are using one of those if you are doing it this way! Most harnesses the only loop rated for human weight is the belay loop.

Incase it wasn't clear, using a gear loop on your "typical" climbing harness will result in failure if you load it with human load (eventually of not immediately).
 
#13 ·
Have been using mastmate ( see mastmate.com) for a few years now. Easy to use, and can be operated without assistance.

For work aloft which takes more than 10 minutes it can be advisable to hoist the bosun chair to the required level and step in after climbing up.
 
#38 ·
Have been using mastmate ( see mastmate.com) for a few years now. Easy to use, and can be operated without assistance.

For work aloft which takes more than 10 minutes it can be advisable to hoist the bosun chair to the required level and step in after climbing up.
Agreed, unless one has to go out to the spreaders, or up the rig with the main hoisted, nothing comes even remotely close to the relative ease, and security, of my MastMate... Especially, if you need to make repeated trips up the rig in succession, hoisting oneself up using a 4:1 purchase gets old VERY quickly...

Must confess, I'm a bit perplexed why anyone crewing on OPB's would feel the need to provide his own means of going up the rig... Any boat worth crewing on should have its own equipment to do so, seems to me... In any event, if I had to schlep 350' of line, my own harness and related gear in addition to all the other crap I have to bring along on every delivery I did, I think I'd start looking for a different line of work... (grin)
 
#14 ·
I used a similar system only 6:1

1) even at 6:1 I wouldn't call it 'easy' to hoist my fat ass up.

2) It takes forever to run through that much rope.

3) As you said there is a height penalty.

So I guess I'm curious how you find it to work going up and what's your age/weight/build?

Like I said I found it pretty difficult, I'm 43 slight to med build and 180#.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I used a similar system only 6:1

1) even at 6:1 I wouldn't call it 'easy' to hoist my fat ass up.

2) It takes forever to run through that much rope.

3) As you said there is a height penalty.

So I guess I'm curious how you find it to work going up and what's your age/weight/build?

Like I said I found it pretty difficult, I'm 43 slight to med build and 180#.
I'm 205 lbs and 62 and yes that is a worry. While I can haul 50 lbs plus I'm wondering if I will have enough energy to do anything once I get up there. I'm working on my chin-ups.
I'm thinking that 6 to 1 would be just too slow and I believe their are more and more friction losses the more turns you have in the rope.
 
#20 ·
I dont want to hijack your thread David but what are your thoughts concerning just using a ladder thats tied to the mast to keep it from toppling over? Obviously it wont get you to mast head height but I have an anchor light about 13' off the deck I am thinking of using it to try and put in.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I like the idea of mast steps. Attached is a design I drew up for the mast steps installed a couple of years ago. I have used them a lot and am very pleased with how they worked out. These are removable, which eliminates snagging and wind resistance. The steps and straps are easily constructed either at home or any local welding shop. I added some bolts to the design to hold the steps in the straps after losing one on the uplift of foot from one to the next. I also, of course, tie in around the mast. The material is 1-1/4" x 3/16" 316 SS, welded with s.s. rod. Attachments for bracket are 3/16" s.s. rivets and some 10-24 s.s. machine screws, threaded into mast.
 

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#24 ·
All of the ladder systems, mastmate, fixed ladder strapped to the mast, flip up steps, screwed on steps etc. all are very appealing in certain situations. A ladder of any kind is certainly more natural, at least for humans, than using ones arms.
In my case I'm looking for something as versatile as possible.

I do not own a boat but regularly do deliveries and crew and in general help out. I want to be able to ascend any mast of any boat I'm likely to be on without regard to configuration.
Masts with significant rakes, in mast furlers, hoops etc are not good candidates for portable ladder systems.
I also want to be able to get to the spreader ends and I want to be able to spend significant time aloft with tools. Getting aloft is only part of the goal, being able to work up their is the other part.
I don't like the vast quantity of line required for my 4 to 1 solution but so far it is the safest most versatile way I can find that might be within my physical capabilities.
 
#27 · (Edited)
As a transportable rig, your 4:1 idea sounds sufficient except for trusting the ratchet. maybe using this along with an ascender as a back-up "stopper" would give you acceptable safety. http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/multi-purpose-ascenders/shunt Do you plan to raise the top block on a halyard? That alone would be risky without a second halyard or a mast attachment as a safety.

The bosuns chair is riskier than a climbing harness but you really need the big pockets to hold stuff. Whenever I just go up without the chair (stuffed with everything I may need) I invariably wind up going up and down unnecessarily. Perhaps a climbing harness and some sort of tool belt?
 
#25 ·
I'm figuring 350' because that lets me climb a 70' mast. I figure if I ever get on a boat with a mast taller than 70' and I'm the most likely candidate to climb the mast I'll be so high I can just float up without any assistance.

Even if the the halyard is nasty I could sew on the tail end of my 350' line and pull it through the shive to temporally replace the halyard and I would still have enough line to climb an almost 60' mast.

As far as safety goes the practical matter is that often the main halyard is all that is available.
With the above system it is pretty easy to inspect the whole halyard before going up it. Once I put load on it I'm using it a static line. Even if the shive breaks I can still go up and down on my blocks and line. I may have trouble retrieving my gear but that is a separate issue.

As far as trusting oneself to a single line there are things I can do. Take down the jib and use the jib halyard as a safety with a person tailing it for me.

I probably would not do that as the chance of my dropping a tool on their head would be higher than the main halyard breaking.
Halyards are rated at thousands of pounds. Hopefully I can inspect a line well enough to make sure it can hold 10 percent of its capacity.
If not I'll make sure my wife has my sailnet password so she can let you know what went wrong

Obviously the reason I'm posting here is so that if I'm missing something someone will clue me in.
 
#28 ·
Obviously the reason I'm posting here is so that if I'm missing something someone will clue me in.
david - I think the fundamental flaw in your plan is doing it alone. Being a long-time rock-climber myself - you need backup (a belayer). It's that simple. Anything else is asking for real fatigue and much higher risk.

Yes, there are many solutions to solo...just as many people solo rock-climb. But they're definitely inferior in every way from the safer solution of a belay.

With that one more person on the boat with you, your options become far cheaper, far simpler, and far safer.

Just get a friend that knows something about this to help you out. He/she can grind you up with a winch, you can have a prussic backup (and/or a second halyard), and you won't be exhausted when you get to the top.
 
#26 ·
I have ratchet blocks that I use on the furling lines and from my experience if you accidentally let go of the tail end you are going to drop like a rock. Unless the ratchet blocks you listed are completely different from the Harken ratchet blocks I have there is nothing positive that holds the line, so without tension against it it is free to slide through even though the sheave isn't turning. At a minimum I would want to have a safety line with something like a Gri Gri on it or some other form of self arrest device. A climbing harness (big wall) is a much safer way to go than a chair that you would fall out of if you got turned upside down for some reason.
 
#30 ·
Yes the ratchet blocks I'm planning on are probably different from yours.
Harken makes two kinds. One kind, your ?, free wheels with no load and only kicks in with a load adjustable with a allen screw.

The kind I'm thinking of has a switch. When switched on the line has to slide over the knurled block as the block itself does not turn.

Please remember this is not my invention. I know of two professional riggers that use this system and know of others.

Still it is useful to post here and get any holes identified.

As for the harken chair, it is more of a diaper than a traditional bosens chair. Sort of a cross between a chair and harness.
 
#32 ·
I would like to tie some kind of belay device to the harness attachment point so when I get to where I want to me I can easily attach the line to the harness.
I could tie of knot of course but if their is an easier way I would like to know about it.
 
#34 ·
David- those sound like the same blocks I have. There is nothing positive about the line locking in. If you keep tension on the line the fact that there are some little ridges and the sheave doesn't turn help you to hold the load but if you let go for any reason; inattention, grab the wrong line, dizzy spell, etc. - I think my rock analogy is appropriate. If all goes well and you are strong and don't make ANY mistakes (pro rigger?) the system you describe will work, but rarely do many of my boat projects turn out that well. Just saying you don't have any insurance built into it.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Good point. I plan on having a line between me and the mast. Maybe that would be some insurance.

My rigger friends say that the 150 lb guy can let go completely of the line and with two ratchets engaged they will hold him. The 200 lb guy will sink but not too fast.

But I see your point the ratchets are a help not the thing.
 
#37 ·
Agree with you entirely on trusting anyone to not drop you. Friends and wives are usually not up to the task. Maybe I'm just not a trusting person. :rolleyes: Your rig sounds like it will work fine with you at the controls. I'm almost always single-handed and have been up the mast plenty of times alone in complete control. It just takes maximum planning about things like what to bring, how to bring it up, what to do with removed parts, which hands to use, where to tie off, and how to sequence what you're going to do.
 
#46 ·
I swear there's no rednecks in the family tree but I can't help thinking, one a them 4wd winches with a remote control unit would make for a fine way to scoot up and down the mast. With a conventional safety line rigged for "just in case". I know, it's lubberly, it's ELECTRIC, it's all sorts of wrong...but the damned things can haul a jeep around and I know I'm not a whole lot heavier than a jeep!
 
#53 · (Edited)
I swear there's no rednecks in the family tree but I can't help thinking, one a them 4wd winches with a remote control unit would make for a fine way to scoot up and down the mast. With a conventional safety line rigged for "just in case". I know, it's lubberly, it's ELECTRIC, it's all sorts of wrong...but the damned things can haul a jeep around and I know I'm not a whole lot heavier than a jeep!
I suppose it's about time someone noted the potential risk of using a powered winch to hoist someone up the rig... It certainly has the potential for being a VERY dangerous practice...

Under no circumstances should it be done by a single operator using a self-tailer, you absolutely need a second person to do the tailing... And, preferably a third, standing by the boat's electrical panel to trip the winch's circuit breaker, if need be...

IMHO, one of the most dangerous trends in cruising today, is that towards ever-larger boats requiring the use of powered winches, coupled with their being used by people with little previous experience handling winches, avoiding/clearing an override, or any real appreciation of the potential forces involved...

Add to that the fact that the type of foot/button deck switches of the type used to operate a windlass or an electric winch are probably one of the most failure-prone electrical devices aboard any boat, living in the harsh environment they do, continuously exposed to the elements - well, you have all the makings of a potentially serious mishap... IMHO, no boat that has powered cockpit winches should be without some sort of "Panic Button" to cut off power to them within easy reach, but in fact I have ever yet to see such an arrangement on any boat I've been aboard...

If you have any doubts, have a look at this grisly, cautionary tale...

Warning: This one is not for the squeamish, I can't imagine how horrific this incident must have been:

Freak accident leaves woman with severed hand

By Tameika Malone - Monday, March 7th, 2011.

Two people from the yachting fraternity were injured in a freak accident on Saturday that left one man with several fingers missing and a woman with her left hand severed from her wrist.

Information surrounding the incident remained sketchy at the time of going to press. However, The Daily OBSERVER understands that some time after 5 pm, the Venezuelan woman was using a motorised lift to hoist her husband onto the mast (the metal frame that holds the sail) to make some repairs.

Reports are that the woman soon realised that something was mechanically wrong with the lift and fearing for the safety of her husband, who was already several feet in the air, she attempted to stop the equipment.

However, her left arm became trapped as the machine continued moving upwards.

Hearing her screams, a yachtsman from a neighbouring boat went to her assistance while the husband watched on helplessly.

The would-be rescuer soon realised that he could not help the woman and called for further assistance. Another yachtsman from Switzerland answered the call and in his attempts to free her, he too became trapped and eight of his fingers were severed.

The woman then tried to free her left hand, using her right hand and that hand too became trapped. Her left hand was completely severed at the wrist while her right hand was crushed, which resulted in several broken bones.

The two were rushed to Mount St John's Medical Centre, where doctors attempted to reattach the severed hand and fingers.

It is reported that the vessel was docked at the Jolly Harbour Pier at the time of the incident.

Freak accident leaves woman with severed hand | Antigua Observer Newspaper
 
#47 ·
HS,

One of them newfangled lectric wenches might werk too! or one of them thar windlassies! just remote control with a forward and reverse!

Anyway, I usually use my 4 altho it might be 5-1 how I have it setup, with someone tailing me on a winch. This helps as my cabin top winches are only 16-1. If one has a 40+ to 1 winch, then straight pulling on the winch will get someone up.

I may also be explaining the how I keep the tail end of the line around me incorrectly also. I set this up as if I was belaying someone, also repelling, I'm the belayer along with the belayee! It does create enough friction if done correctly such that I will not slide down too much, or at least slowly. One could also figure out how to do this with a figure 8 from climbing also.

At the end of the day, do how ever, whatever is such a manner, if you go up in one piece, come down in one piece!

Marty
 
#49 ·
I think I'll stick with my mast steps.

;)

ATB

Michael
 
#50 ·
I think you should re-consider the ATN TopClimber. I've had mine for about 11-12 years and I've always felt safe. The trick that made it easy for me was to keep the static (climbing) line next to the mast and very tight. I put my hands around the mast, then stand up. Easy. The way it's usually shown is to hold onto the line and pull yourself upright. I find that difficult. As far as decending, what's wrong with slow. With al the things on a mast that can snag you, being slow and deliberate is much safer. I usually tie a line from my harness to an existing halyard with a rolling hitch as a safety line. I just slide it up or down as I go.
I'm old, fat, and also bald, and I've made as many as 7 round trips in one day for things I forgot ( did I mention I'm 75).
The ATN is simple, safe and ready to go, no experimenting.
Marc
 
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