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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Are Centre Cockpits Good?
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Thread: Are Centre Cockpits Good? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-31-2012 10:50 AM
PCP
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowedtoothdoc View Post
How about Amel. They have made center cockpit blue water cruisers for many years.
The older Amel, that were smaller boats than today were very particular center cockpit boats:



Most that don't like CC boats are referring to small center cockpit boats where the compromises regarding having that implies a high freeboard and sailors siting on top of the boat, not inside the boat. Amel older smaller boats where CC but sailors were low, well inside the boat and non on top of it.

Regards

Paulo
12-31-2012 10:02 AM
Bowedtoothdoc
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

How about Amel. They have made center cockpit blue water cruisers for many years.
12-31-2012 08:58 AM
hard-a-ground
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

The Hylas brand executes center cockpit as a religion. Look at Norseman 447 also if you like the U-shaped galley. Center cockpit designs seem more suitable to me when you have a steady diet of >2 people on the boat. There is a pretty good video of the Hylas 46 on youtube - Fetching Light. I was intrigued by the discussion of the hard lexan dodger they created.
12-31-2012 01:49 AM
ShoalFinder
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Wow, you guys certainly do make this sailing stuff complicated. All I ask is a bag of sandwiches and a cooler full of drinks.

That said, a bag of sandwiches and a cooler full of drinks were greatly improved upon with the purchase of my Tiller Tamer. Now I can actually retrieve one of those sandwiches!

While you guys debate the latest million dollar yachts, I'm sitting on square life preservers for cushions and wishing I had a roller furler. ha!

And sailing is still the best thing I've ever done.


You guys are the best. I really do enjoy reading these threads. The amount of knowledge you all have is incredible and I'm constantly grateful to be able to learn from it.
12-31-2012 12:19 AM
Omatako
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Hey Jon

With an Aries anything from the aft quarter forward was OK even if the boat did sort of waddle down a course - I think all windvanes have a waddle factor as standard. The Aries was only a nightmare when running because it would waddle enough to cause an unplanned gybe.

To be sure, in the days of sextants and RDF coastal navigation, the windvane was a powerful tool for voyagers but there appears still to be a contingent of voyagers who swear by their windvanes and I don't quite get that. Autopilots are really not that costly.

Sorry again, we're really hijacking this thread now.
12-30-2012 09:33 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Interesting to me is how much of the sailing fraternity will not put to sea without a GPS, state of the art chart plotter, AIS, HD radar, Iridium phone, the list goes on.

And yet there appears to be a preference to antiquated wind vane steering systems that (generally speaking) require control lines to circumnavigate the boat and end up cluttering the space that you spend most of your time in.
I don't know, in this part of the world, I'm certainly not seeing much of a "preference" for vanes, they're still pretty rare, and becoming more so, in my observation... Especially, among American cruisers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
I have long since converted to an autopilot that not only holds a better course either on the wind or off, doesn't take you off course when you're running off the wind (predominant cruising condition) and the wind shifts, uses almost no electricity (a modest solar array easily replaces anything the autopilot uses).

In the bad old days before fancy electronics, I sailed with an Aries windvane which in it's day was considered one of the best. Downwind sailing was a nightmare with crash gybes the order of the day. The "average" course it steered may have been brilliant in the days of bows and arrows but today?
Only vanes I've ever used are my Sailomat, and a couple of Monitors.... If their perfomance was anything like what you describe, I wouldn't think very highly of windvanes, either... (grin)

Funny that in an article in the current CRUISING WORLD entitled "Simply Indespensible", the crew of OSPREY list the essential gear that has worked best over their past 4 years of full-time cruising on their 45-footer... One of the 11 items selected, was their Aires vane... As always, different strokes for different folks - and they're certainly not for every type of boat, of course...

Further evidence that I'm a dinosaur among today's sailors, no doubt - but I still rate the purchase of my first Sailomat 15 years ago to be right up there with the best money I've ever spent...

12-30-2012 06:47 PM
PCP
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Interesting to me is how much of the sailing fraternity will not put to sea without a GPS, state of the art chart plotter, AIS, HD radar, Iridium phone, the list goes on.

And yet there appears to be a preference to antiquated wind vane steering systems that (generally speaking) require control lines to circumnavigate the boat and end up cluttering the space that you spend most of your time in.

I have long since converted to an autopilot that not only holds a better course either on the wind or off, doesn't take you off course when you're running off the wind (predominant cruising condition) and the wind shifts, uses almost no electricity (a modest solar array easily replaces anything the autopilot uses).

In the bad old days before fancy electronics, I sailed with an Aries windvane which in it's day was considered one of the best. Downwind sailing was a nightmare with crash gybes the order of the day. The "average" course it steered may have been brilliant in the days of bows and arrows but today?

I wouldn't replace my auto pilot with the world's best windvane even if I got it for free with a lifetime free maintenance contract. As always, just a personal choice.

...
Yes, I agree. Also the autopilots have improved incredibly on the last 10 years with all the fed back and development provided by their extended use on offshore long distance solo races where the boats are most of the time in autopilot even in extreme weather.

A top of the range autopilot is also a great improvement in safety. Modern boats facing bad weather work better sailing and a modern autopilot with adequate storm sails can keep a boat on track on the best course to sail the storm allowing the crew to rest.

Regards

Paulo
12-30-2012 05:23 PM
Omatako
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Interesting to me is how much of the sailing fraternity will not put to sea without a GPS, state of the art chart plotter, AIS, HD radar, Iridium phone, the list goes on.

And yet there appears to be a preference to antiquated wind vane steering systems that (generally speaking) require control lines to circumnavigate the boat and end up cluttering the space that you spend most of your time in.

I have long since converted to an autopilot that not only holds a better course either on the wind or off, doesn't take you off course when you're running off the wind (predominant cruising condition) and the wind shifts, uses almost no electricity (a modest solar array easily replaces anything the autopilot uses).

In the bad old days before fancy electronics, I sailed with an Aries windvane which in it's day was considered one of the best. Downwind sailing was a nightmare with crash gybes the order of the day. The "average" course it steered may have been brilliant in the days of bows and arrows but today?

I wouldn't replace my auto pilot with the world's best windvane even if I got it for free with a lifetime free maintenance contract. As always, just a personal choice.

Sorry, a little off topic but relevant nontheless.

As far a CC goes, I have a Morgan 44 CC. All the ups and downs have been discussed above and they're all true to some extent. I will live with all the downs to continue enjoying the ups.
12-27-2012 08:19 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaojoe View Post
Jon, once again we agree on oysters.
My favorite boat at the annapy show.
Putting the build quality at surperb, her layout was impressive. Had a hard time leaving that one.

Shout out when you can take a break from the house project, we'll eryster up.

Happy New Year
joeOsea
Yup, that was pretty apparent from Herb's write-up in the mag, liked your line about "when you buy quality, you pay only once..." Funny, it seems like just yesterday that we were all shocked at CW giving their BOTY award to a boat with a price tag over a million, with the Trintella 47...

Now, their "Best Bluewater Cruiser" award goes to that Oyster, at $3+ million... "Freedom" sure ain't free anymore, eh?

Some blow last night, eh? Up here, the weather service registered a peak wind of 74 mph... Glad it wasn't cold enough for snow, it would have been a near repeat of the storm we had 2 years ago, about the same date, that cancelled my trip south that year... The irony of this pic, is that the water level from the storm that cancelled my going south this winter, was just about the same height as that snow drift in front of my neighbor's picture window...



Happy New Year to you as well, hope to see you again soon...
12-27-2012 08:01 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Are Centre Cockpits Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Jon, we have a Monitor vane with a center cockpit Bristol 45.5 and it works fine. The only problem is that you have two sets of light lines (steering and control) crossing the aft deck. I agree with your point about loss of storage. We have an incredible amount of storage for small and mid size items but really need a dedicated sail locker. The aft shower plays that role.
That's good to hear... My thought was that so many CCs have hydraulic steering, it's a problem. Sailomat, for one, suggests their vane will not work with hydraulic systems without considerable modification...

Many CC boats I see, the control lines could not be run nearly as directly as they can to an aft cockpit... As soon as you begin to add friction to the system, or introduce more stretch to the control lines by lengthening them, you're likely to degrade the effectiveness of most vanes. That's certainly the case with my Sailomat, especially in lighter airs...

If I was using a vane on a CC boat, I'd think about trying to run it to the emergency tiller, instead... Depending on what the particular setup is, that might be a better way to go on some boats...

In the latest CRUISING WORLD, the Clarkes on OSPREY list their vane as one of their favorite pieces of gear... Yet, given the amount of gear the pic of the boat shows dangling from the stern arch, I can't imagine how well it would work whenever the apparent wind came forward of the beam, with the air vane in the shadow/disturbed air of such a massive structure...
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