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02-10-2013 11:49 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Originally Posted by rlltrash View Post
I am looking for a "Trailer Sailer" with a LOA of about 17' - 25'. A Mac 26 D or S is OK, but a little bigger than I would like.

So that it can be ramp launched and recovered without too much difficulty, the boat should have a swing keel, drop/lifting keel, or fixed keel with centerboard.

I live in southern California between Long Beach and Newport Beach. I have found some interesting boats of this type on the internet, but have never found one close enough that I could actually go see it (and sit in it) other than a Catalina 22. (Marina Del Rey to San Diego is within my visiting range.)

Does anyone know of any boats of this type located from Los Angeles southward? I would particularly like to see a Santana 23D.

Thanks, Richard
S2 7.9 get into shallow water
12-08-2012 12:53 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Bene 23.5 is an excellent choice. Moore 24 is very popular in your area, tho it has the same launching issues as the J/24. There might be something in the S2 lineup for you: the 6.9 has a drop keel and rates around PHRF 200.

Don't know what their rates are like, but Marina Del Rey has mast-up storage with an on-site host. Ramps are about 50yds away.
12-06-2012 02:13 AM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

We have a B-25 here in town, and I have sailed against a Santana (but I don't know if it is a 23D) for years.

Honestly in all of the boats in this size I find people are much more likely to sit on the side of the cockpit not in it. The heel of the boat just makes the cockpit uncomfortable so people wind up on the coming anyway.

Frankly if you are looking at the Viper, I would also seriously be looking at the VX. It was also designed by Brian Bennet, but is a 15 year newer design, so a lot of the issues that have caused problems on the Viper were resolved on the VX. it is also significantly lighter, a few feet shorter, and the spinnaker launch system... Is about the easiest launch system I have ever used.

The answer for the slippery side decks of the viper is about $10 in non-skid tape. This is a pretty common 'modification' to the viper.
12-05-2012 11:59 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Don't be fooled by the Vioer, they are great day sailors.

I like the B-25, but also take a look at the older J boats, like the 24, and 22. They are decent race boats in both phrf and OD, and there are a lot of them out there.
I sailed a Viper 640 last fall. It was fun, but for day sailing there are no back rests and I thought the curved side decks were slippery (found myself sitting on the sole more than once.) Can the boat be made a little more comfortable for a "relaxing" sail? If so, it would be a great choice. How similar is an Ultimate 20 to a Viper 640?

The J/22 & J/24 would be good choices, too, if they did not have fixed keels. They are much too high on a trailer for frequent ramp launching. The B-25 has a lifting keel. I'd really like to see a Santana 23D. Have you ever seen one?

12-04-2012 08:48 AM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Don't be fooled by the Viper, they are great day sailors. The same designer has a new boat out called the VX OD, that is probably the most fun boat I have sailed in 10 years. Sadly there are no used ones, and new ones are around 27,000.

I like the B-25, but also take a look at the older J boats, like the 24, and 22. They are decent race boats in both phrf and OD, and there are a lot of them out there.
12-04-2012 02:33 AM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Originally Posted by Stumble View Post

Can you give some idea about what you are looking for? A race boat, weekender, day sailor, ect.

As well as budget, and towing capability, where you plan on keeping it, ect. There are hundreds of designs that meet the criteria you posted above.
Thank you all for your replies. I am looking for a daysailer, weekender, and occasional club racer (with small "camping" type cabin.) Of course, I would prefer a faster boat to a slower one - but that is not critical. The Catalina 22 has a PHRF rating of about 270. Something faster than that would be nice. The Santana 23D that I mentioned has a PHRF of about 170. A Viper 640 is still faster, but is not comfortable for day sailing.

I will keep the boat in southern California on a trailer. Hopefully, I can find a marina or club with dry, mast up, storage. If not, it will either be in my driveway or a slip somewhere (in ocean waters, not a lake.) I prefer a used boat for < $10K. The J/70 is indeed interesting, but more expensive than I want to go. It looks like an Ultimate 20 or 24. Does anyone know anything about a B-25 or Beneteau First 235 SK? As I said above, I have found the names of some interesting boats but have not been able to find any real live ones to see.

Can you help me?
12-02-2012 11:31 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

The new J/70 sounds very interesting, if you're not price sensitive, Twenty three feet long. 700# Deck-stepped, carbon fiber mast retractable keel for easy trailerability. The sailing press has been very positive.
12-02-2012 07:26 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

We sailed a Chrysler 22 for a number of years. It is a Herreshoff (great grandson of) design. We truly loved it. We sailed it like crazy, gunkholed and right up to the beach because both the cboard and rudder lifted, and we were able to push through some very, very rough weather. As I recall we had a 9 HP on her with a storage compartment aft for the fuel tank and that worked well. Good luck
12-02-2012 02:35 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

Had an RK20 (similar to balboa 20/ensenada 20). From pulling into the parking lot to fully rigged, floating and ready to sail was around 20 minutes. Solid boat, huge deck for a 20 footer, dirt cheap. Wish I had kept her, thought I wanted something larger.

A wiser man than I once said, the fun you have on a sailboat is inversely related to the size of the boat, I should have listened...
12-02-2012 01:00 PM
Re: 17' - 25' Swing / Lifting Keel Boat (again)

With a water ballast the Mac's will trailer and launch like a much smaller boat. They are very popular for that reason.
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