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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-15-2013 02:09 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterybee View Post
If I get stuck with something called "Air Supply" I may need to get my stomach pumped. Cheers!G
That's only necessary if it's called LadyHawke.
03-15-2013 02:03 PM
paul323
Re: Boat Buying Costs

You got some great info here so apologies if I duplicate.

Much will depend on your local tax/registration environment, and if you are in salt or fresh water.

Regarding the purchase:
- Survey - you have local prices.
- Transfer (I am in the US) $250+ plau registration fees to check and transfer title.
- Registration fees.
- Local sales tax.
- Around here we also have to pay property tax.
- Insurance.
- BoatUS /tow service membership.
- Slip advance/deposit to marina.


Immediately following purchase
- Bottom job (generally): $2k+
- Immediate safety and critical repairs (per survey)
- Missing items, e.g. charts, tools, spares, new flares, cleaning materials, wax, log book, maintenance log, etc etc
- Some new lifejackets, foulies etc; you may already have some, but you'll want some new ones BECAUSE YOU NOW OWN A BOAT! YAY!
- Often newly purchased boats need new batteries, as old ones died of neglect while boat was for sale. You battery bank will need to be replaced every few years, depending on usage; infrequent but fairly expensive.

Year one is normally rough, often ~20% of purchase price getting the boat up to a condition you are happy with. Then 10-15% a year for maintenance is typical, PLUS keep a special extra fund set aside towards big ticket upgrade/replacements, e.g. new sails, lifelines, standing rigging, etc. The "special fund" is important as the time will fly by, and that 5-year old sail with plenty of life in it will suddenly be getting a bit tired....

Oh, yeah, regular maintenance; If you are in salt water:
- Your hull will need to be cleaned (diver); for me, monthly in summer, a couple of times over winter (I can sail all year round :-)) - but I don't race, otherwise weekly.
- New zincs, depending, say every 9 months
- Haulout and bottom paint, every12-24 months, depending on conditions, paint selection, number of coats


Also
- Wood/Brightwork maintenance - obviously depends on boat; annually or more
- Canvas maintenance. Most boats here get they jibs "tuned" (e.g. UV protection resewn) every year
- Service winches annually (cheap to do yourself, once you have grease/oil)
- What other people have been saying: engine maintenance (new filters, oil, impeller) every year, plus ongoing general upgrading/replacing/fixing.

Good luck!
03-15-2013 01:36 PM
mysterybee
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Maybe this will help. It's a lit of all work done on my boat since I purchased it in december 2006. Some of the costs are exact (where I recorded it) others are my estimated recollections.
Hi Barry,

That is perfect! Thank you! Even if the prices aren't consistent, I can at least get a clear idea of regular maintenance tasks. I can also review your list for questions I can ask of a potential marina.

I'm very grateful for the level of detail you've provided. In your honour, I shall re-christen the head "Barry".

Cheers!

G
03-15-2013 12:49 PM
BarryL
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Hey,

Maybe this will help. It's a list of all work done on my boat since I purchased it in december 2006. Some of the costs are exact (where I recorded it) others are my estimated recollections. I am afraid to total it all up. Additional costs not listed include ~$2000 each year for haulout, bottom wash, mast removal and storage, moving the boat to a winter storage yard (where I can work on it) and splashing in the spring, $150 or so for mooring permit, $150 to have the mooring hauled in the fall and $150 to have the mooring dropped in the spring.

2013
3/10/13 Order new furler - Selden Furlex 200S. $2800
quote to have standing rigging replaced $5000 (which includes new furler)

2012
12/11 Change oil, oil filter, and fuel filter (R24S 10 micron) $50
11/27 James installes new lifelines ($3030 for new lifelines and 4 stanchions and bases)
11/19 R+R Bent stanchions and stanchion bases.
11/18 Move DTR to Oldman’s dock. Winterize fresh water system.
November - DTR is damaged by super storm sandy. See ‘Hurricane’
October - change fresh water diverter valve $50
August - new Main sail from UK $2700
6/1 Move boat to dock and commission water system. Boat can be sailed.
5/31 Put sails on and tune rig.
5/30 Boat is on mooring (moved by Old Man). Lauren I do put boom on, run rigging and connect mast wiring. Too windy to put sails on.
5/15 Boat is ready for launch. Old Man can’t launch until Monday 5/21 and we are on vacation from 5/22 to 5/29.
5/15 pick up mainsail and dodger from Wedekind. $250 for mainsail repairs (leech, batten pockets). $275 for dodger repair (new window and zipper stiching).
5/14 repair mast wires for anchor light and steaming / deck light
5/12 poliglow stb side. install new batteries (Costco 27DC 115 AH, 750 MCA), wash decks, paint prop (est $300 for 3 batteries)
5/11 poliglow port side
5/6 paint bottom (SR 40) (est 2 gallons at $150 each plus supplies, say $400 total)
5/5 rig check. Need to repair anchor light wiring
5/4 Clean hull w/Poliprep. Clean bottom. Hull is ready for PiloGlow and bottom paint. Test run engine, runs great. Batteries are old and shot.
4/16 R+R shaft Zinc. Service all boat winches (not mast winch)
4/14 Sand Bottom Paint - complete (est $50 for supplies)
3/28 Sand bottom paint. Starboard front half complete.
3/23 Sand bottom paint. Port side complete (except for under jack pads)
3/21 Sand bottom paint. Completed about 25% (port rear half)
3/17 rewire - new jumper from ignition to glow plug. New jumper from glow plug (hot side) to start switch. Clean start switch solenoid wire (yellow with red stripe). Clean fuse in that line. Run additional glow plug power line and clean glow plug connections. ($75 for switches and wires)
3/3 install new glow plug switch
2/21 install new bird spikes on spreaders

2011
12/15 - removed wind instrument -checks OK. Broken wire from mast.
12/4 boat covered
11/19 boat winterized and gear brought home
11/14 boat hauled
11/13 change oil and filter (3879 hours) (estimate $50)
11/9 last sail. Solo
6/15 re-seal exhaust flange to prevent water coming in when motoring
6/12 new jib sheets (Cajun XLS) ($100 I think)
5/26 headsail leach and foot line replaced ($250)
5.20 new lazy jack lines
5/11 boat launched
5/3 paint prop with antifoul
5/1 clean, poliprep, poliglow hull
4/23 scrub bottom with stuff brush to remove dead paint and expose new paint
4/22 Replace STBD port line clutch, Repair instrument mount, new prop shaft zinc

2010
11/13 Unload gear for winter
11/10 change oil. Boat hauled for winter
8/29 New oars and oarlocks – last ones lost during vacation storm
6/12 install new water heater, new engine water pump, new thermostat
($240 for water heater $100 for water pump, $20 for T Stat)
6.5 remove engine water pump
5/21 Remove Hot Water heater
5/12 Hot water heater is leaking and needs to be replaced.
5/7 Water system commissioned, 2 new lights installed. All mast wired connected. Boat ready for the season
May - new SH GX2150 VHF and command mic $350
4/26 move boat to mooring. Put boom on. Engine ran hot – bled 3 times. Better?
4/23 boat launched (not in yard, have not heard from OMBY)
4/21 finish poliglow, prep for launch
4/20 Clean topsides, poliglow starboard side
4/19 paint bottom (SR 40 entire family) ($500 for all?)
4/15 Clean, lighten, oil teak. Test run engine (raw water hoses were reversed). Engine started and ran great. Wash topsides
4/14 wash and wax decks
4/7 Rudder installed. Wire rope is not run correctly
4/1 install new water pump, HX, drain and add new coolant
3/24 finish sanding port
3/17 finish sanding stb side, do ˝ of port side
3/9 sand stb ˝ of boat w/60 grit
2/25 New shaft (1” X 49”), coupling, packing box hose, clamps, etc.
2/5 Clean engine compartment and bilge
2/5 New Cutless beating (OMBY) - $1000 for all driveline work
1/20 January - Prop shat removed, cutless bearing removed. Shaft log removed (OMBY)
Heat exchanger removed, cleaned $75
Walts Radiator 928 1220
807 Hallock Ave
Port Jeffrsn Sta, NY 11776-1220

2009
December – drop rudder (remove quadrant)
11/16/09 Boat hauled
11/16 Change oil and filter, 8 gallons diesel
12/15 remove rudder
11/20 boat hauled
May: New main and jib halyards (Yale Aracom T $500)
4/6 New start battery $100
Spring - Pettitt Ultima SSA

2008 Work
11/22 – cover boat, connect solar power
11/10 – winterize hot water side (blow out lines)
11/8 Winterize – remove sails, winterize cold water (drain hot water, need to blow out HW lines). Winterize head and holding tank, bring home electronics, remove impeller (blades cracked).
11/6 Boat hauled
11/1 Change oil. Add 5 gallons of fuel. 3727 hours
10/10 56' StaysetX for main sheet
8/6 - 15 gallons of fuel. Scrub boat bottom
7/25 - engine doesn't start (does not turn over). clean all wiring connections
July - new exhaust system after NYC trip (hard pipes only, not waterlift muffler) (work performed by yard Mechanic, estimate of $300)
5/08 New headsail – 140% UK Passagemaker $2780
4/26 –Engine doesn’t start, replace Facet fuel pump
4/25 - Launch day
4/08 bottom done (fair keel, barrier coat, bottom paint - Pettitt Hydrocoat), poliglow
3/08 Sand bottom, keel.
2/08 Boat bottom soda blasted. Don at All Surface Soda Blasting. $1700 for everything. He did a great job.

2007 Work
12/3/07 send Datamarine Wind Machine to DMI Inc. for repair
11/07 - start bottom paint removal
11/1/07 Boat hauled
10/07 change oil, filter, air filter, tension alt belt - 3685 hours
9/07 change macerator
9/07 tighten stuffing box, clean bilge
7/07 Repair starboard winch
6/07 Service winches (lose shaft and bearing overboard). New gears in port lazarette
5/07 Lowrance LMS337CDF ($550), SH GX1500 w/ command mic $240
4/07 New jib sheets, remove old name, new plow anchor, new mainsheet blocks and routing of sheet, install new name (estimate $500)
3/07 Change engine oil, filter, fill fuel tank, fill propane tanks, new propane lines, repair glow plugs (wiring bad), coolant, fuel filters, engine zinc, refrig pulley and belt, radio installed, bilge pump re-wired, 12V meter installed
1/07 new house battery ($200)

See on Yachtworld. Listed at $xxxxx make offer 11/06/06 for $xxK. Offer is rejected, increase to $xxK, which is accepted. See boat 11/10 and leave deposit. Survey scheduled for 11/17
Purchased 11/27/06 from Kelly Finkenworth. $xxxxxxxxx
Warren Trafton broker.
Barnaby Blatch Surveyor
Jack Neades Delivery Captain
Costs
$44 X 2, + 2 X 2 for trip to see boat 11/10
same plus $595 (survey) $650 (Haul) on 11/17 for survey
$200 car rental, $300 Jack, $50 (ferry) for delivery

Delivery was 11/27/06 - Newport to Noank
11/28, Noank to Mt. Sinai
03-15-2013 12:18 PM
Faster
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterybee View Post
Hi Faster,

This is a bit off-topic but it is something else I've been interested in. What, specifically, do you do yourself? ........
Cheers!

G
I've been a DIYer pretty well all my life.. built my first runabout at 16 years old, took on a full-on kitchen remodel in my 20s both with guidance from my Dad. Rebuilt car engines, painted a couple of cars in my youth, some boats later on.

We've also never had a lot of free spending money so in many cases our DIY projects were a matter of necessity over desire. And most of this in the days before the 'internet instruction manual' era.

So to be specific, over the years we've swapped engines, rebuilt an engine, modified interior layouts, rebuilt structural sections, installed all our upgrades and added hardware, top-to-bottom Awlgrip repaint, we do all the routine annual maintenance - bottom paint, prop servicing, zincs etc, filter and oil changes, water pump service/replacement etc.

Canvas work, upholstery, rigging components, sails, SS fabrication, welding etc we've left to the pros.

It's not for everyone but I'd suspect that there are plenty of us here in more or less the same space. And there's a tradeoff.. We repainted a 40 footer topsides and deck, added an anchor locker and cockpit lazarette access prior to painting the deck and painted the rig.. a 4-6 week project and it cost us about $6K all up.. the same job by a pro would have run into probably $15-20K so we 'saved' a bundle.. did it look as good as the pro would have done? Not a chance..
03-15-2013 12:01 PM
mysterybee
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
We do most things ourselves, and that's a considerable savings over time. Occasionally it's true we may have been better off hiring a pro, but all in all we've been satisfied with most of the work we took on ourselves.
Hi Faster,

This is a bit off-topic but it is something else I've been interested in. What, specifically, do you do yourself? I've done very minor electrical/plumbing/carpentry work around the house, but I'd be reluctant to start taking a boat motor apart. Can you give me some examples of tasks you trusted yourself to do right away vs those that you wanted to watch a professional do first before taking it on?

I'm still pricing yacht clubs/marinas in the area, but given the lack of availability, I may find my decision already made for me. Also, I'm not clear on the need for de-stepping the mast. Is it absolutely necessary or is it a matter of personal preference?

Oh, and I think I may need a link to a boat re-naming ceremony. If I get stuck with something called "Air Supply" I may need to get my stomach pumped.

Cheers!

G
03-15-2013 09:18 AM
denverd0n
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
A similar thing used to happen to Jaguars - the low buy in deceived people into thinking they could afford it.
Reminds me of a radio talk-show about cars that I heard several years back. Caller was thinking about buying a Jaguar, but he had heard that they needed a lot of maintenance, and would nickel and dime you to death. Was asking the host if that was true.

Host said, "Absolutely not true. A Jaguar will definitely not nickel and dime you to death. When a Jaguar reaches into your pocket it is going to be looking for 50's and 100's, not nickels and dimes."

Same thing applies to boats. A boat will never nickel and dime you to death.
03-14-2013 10:45 PM
boatpoker
Re: Boat Buying Costs

A survey from a SAMS Accredited Surveyor in Southern Ontario will cost $17.00/ft plus HST. There are a couple of surveyors around who will do it for $9.00/ft and they are worth every penny

Sea trials are an additional cost of about $80.00 per hr. if you want the surveyor to come along.

You will also have to pay the cost of the lift (approx. $500.00 depending on which marina) if the boat is in water.
03-14-2013 10:06 PM
Faster
Re: Boat Buying Costs

MB... another huge factor in actual costs is your desire/ability to do things yourself. Paying marine tradesmen $75-100/hr adds to the overall picture in a hurry.

We do most things ourselves, and that's a considerable savings over time. Occasionally it's true we may have been better off hiring a pro, but all in all we've been satisfied with most of the work we took on ourselves. There is the occasional 'do I want to do that'.. for example though my wife is a very accomplished seamstress she elected to hire out the upholstery. It didn't hurt that we found a great vendor/supplier at a good price.

Doing as much as you can will make you comfortably familiar with the boat too.....
03-14-2013 07:30 PM
mysterybee
Re: Boat Buying Costs

Hi Sloop,

Since you brought it up, yes I am a professional project manager, so research and planning are part of my DNA. As I mentioned earlier, while I want to be aware of one-off costs, they are not my primary concern. I want to familiarize myself with the consistent, predictable expenditures that I will be able to expect on an annual basis.

I realize not everyone shares my enthusiasm for detail management, but I was hoping I could find one or two people who could help me put together a respectable spreadsheet.
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