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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?
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Thread: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-21-2013 06:49 PM
Classic30
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
On our Martin 242 the kite was launched and retrieved from a companionway bag.. it works great because the kite never needs repacking, and the sheets and halyard stay attached all the time. We even left the guy in the pole jaws unless we had to do a windward set, or changed jibes between runs.

A large overlapping genoa would interfere with this strategy, but up to about 28-30 feet I think that idea could be made to work.
Fast, what you've described is exactly how most of the Adams 10's (33') do it over here.

Believe me, it still works even with a big genoa and a big masthead kite - you end up launching the spinnaker under the boom and around the leech of the genoa (basically out the side of the boat, aft of the shrouds and quickly pull it around on the guy as it goes up) - but it's probably just not something a beginner would be comfortable trying.

In the 2-meter steep-sided breaking waves we often get over here surfing home on the downwind legs in a plastic flyer like an Adams, it's pretty much the only way to safely get the kite up.
03-21-2013 02:22 PM
SchockT
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
On our Martin 242 the kite was launched and retrieved from a companionway bag.. it works great because the kite never needs repacking, and the sheets and halyard stay attached all the time. We even left the guy in the pole jaws unless we had to do a windward set, or changed jibes between runs.

A large overlapping genoa would interfere with this strategy, but up to about 28-30 feet I think that idea could be made to work.
Yeah that is more dinghy style, and easy to do with the little hanky sized chute on the 242!
I did the same thing on my Hotfoot 20, and we do it on the Olson 30 I race on, except that we detatch the halyard for the windward leg. It is certainly nice not going below to repack the chute, especially when it is wet! If the chute comes down ugly the pit man can chase the tapes from the rail.
03-21-2013 11:27 AM
Faster
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Actually, if you're going to use the main to blanket the spinnaker, a surer way is to drop it down the companionway (either under the boom or 'letterbox' it) rather than drop it on the foredeck where it could still get caught by the wind.. plus it keeps the crew weight aft when you most need it.

..just a suggestion.
On our Martin 242 the kite was launched and retrieved from a companionway bag.. it works great because the kite never needs repacking, and the sheets and halyard stay attached all the time. We even left the guy in the pole jaws unless we had to do a windward set, or changed jibes between runs.

A large overlapping genoa would interfere with this strategy, but up to about 28-30 feet I think that idea could be made to work.
03-21-2013 03:28 AM
SchockT
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Actually, if you're going to use the main to blanket the spinnaker, a surer way is to drop it down the companionway (either under the boom or 'letterbox' it) rather than drop it on the foredeck where it could still get caught by the wind.. plus it keeps the crew weight aft when you most need it.

..just a suggestion.
I've always favored launching the chute from a GP bag on the rail behind the genoa rather than from a turtle in the pulpit. Either way, if the wind is light I try to re-pack it straight into the bag on the douse. If it is windy I like to drop it straight down the companionway. Letterbox drop is great if you have a loose footed main. The only problem with dropping it down the companionway is keeping it out of the genny trimmer's way!
03-21-2013 02:44 AM
Classic30
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
In a small boat,if the main is still up, you can blanket the spinnaker with the main and just stuff it back in the bag stowed in the pulpit. That is what we do on SJ 21s.
Actually, if you're going to use the main to blanket the spinnaker, a surer way is to drop it down the companionway (either under the boom or 'letterbox' it) rather than drop it on the foredeck where it could still get caught by the wind.. plus it keeps the crew weight aft when you most need it.

..just a suggestion.
03-21-2013 01:20 AM
jackdale
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

In a small boat,if the main is still up, you can blanket the spinnaker with the main and just stuff it back in the bag stowed in the pulpit. That is what we do on SJ 21s.
03-20-2013 10:44 PM
Classic30
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Definitely don't recommend flying spinnaker only... very difficult to douse if the wind pipes up unexpectedly, and tough even if it doesn't.
I understand your thinking, but it really shouldn't be a problem even then. The key place I've seen people come unstuck is when they don't/can't completely ease the sheet before starting the drop - the spinnaker clew should be flying out the front like a flag during the drop or else, yes, you'll be in strife.

That's the other point: Something we were taught from a young age in dinghy racing is never, EVER, put a knot in the end of your spinnaker sheets!!

Every other halyard or sheet is fine to stop - but not the spinnaker sheets, because if ever you find the boat getting out of control whilst the spinnaker is hoisted, you need to be able to let the active sheet go - right out of the boat if necessary - and have the sail fly out the front like a flag whilst you get the boat back under control. The safest way for a beginner to lower the spinnaker is to start at the pole/guy end anyway, so you don't really need the sheet to get it down.

..and a general rule of thumb across all classes and sizes is that the ideal length for a spinnaker sheet is 2x the length of the boat on deck.
03-20-2013 12:29 PM
RichH
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewwhill View Post
Oh.. I forgot...

Do most people raise it while the headsail is set? For a smallish boat like mine is this necessary in mild-moderate winds?
Its really best to be able to raise/dowse a spinn with the headsail flying, even on smallish boats ..... greatly increases the 'choices' of a set/dowse.
With a roller furling headsail you have to be sure that the topswivel is nowhere near the spinn (or sock) or you can wind up with the topswivel tangling and partly rolling the spinn. If you do have a furler, consider to install a large mast crane to keep the spinn well out of the way of that furler top swivel .... same reasons for having a sprit when using 'open' furling drums.

For small boats and lightweight spinn poles, the end of end method to gybe the pole remains the 'easiest' and least complicated ..... and there are available some control systems that allow gybing the pole from the cockpit and depending on the rigging configuration (eg.: a boat without lower forward stays ... but you need guys AND sheets). For end for ending the pole with a small boat, for singlehanding a symm spinnaker consider TWO spinn poles; the second pole doesnt need a downhaul nor topping lift ... only used to make the gybe and to hold a clew well outboard.
03-20-2013 11:16 AM
SVAuspicious
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewwhill View Post
Does anyone sail by spinnaker alone>
Lots of good stuff above.

I fly mine alone regularly. Sometimes a 1.5oz asym off the bowsprit, and sometimes either the asym or .75oz sym off the pole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The dip pole is generally used on larger boats and requires a sizable crew.
I was with you right to the end. 30 years racing foredeck may change my attitude but I fly a chute with a dip pole alone.

That said, an good autopilot is critical and many don't do well downwind (they hunt).

If things pipe up and it looks like a gybe will be sporty I'm not shy about dumping the chute, gybing, and relaunching. Of course I'm a long distance guy so there are hours if not days between gybes. *grin*
03-20-2013 12:49 AM
Faster
Re: Do I need a guy and a sheet on each side of spinnaker?

Our spinnakers most often go up with a jib up, unless we're going straight into a spinnaker run, then we'll hoist it just with a main up. So no, it's not necessary on any sized boat...

It's definitely easier to hoist the spinn in the lee of other sails, esp as the wind increases.

Definitely don't recommend flying spinnaker only... very difficult to douse if the wind pipes up unexpectedly, and tough even if it doesn't.
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