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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-02-2013 10:03 AM
Fstbttms
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
FB,

That is where in water like I am at 42-45F year around is different than you where it is probably 50-60F? all year.
Ours is 50°-70° depending on time of year.
04-02-2013 09:26 AM
blt2ski
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

FB,

That is where in water like I am at 42-45F year around is different than you where it is probably 50-60F? all year. Things will grow quicker etc. For the most part here in puget sound, I have to deal with slime and grassy stuff, along with barnicles seem to be the next in line. Mussels etc seem to generally speaking, not get attached to boat bottoms..........note, generally speaking. I know of three or four boats on my dock that have not moved in at least 4-5 yrs, and have mussels, barnicals etc on them. Probably 600-1000 lbs worth of different shell and brown and green algae type stuff on them. Including a few browns that are 3' long!

Marty
04-02-2013 01:27 AM
Fstbttms
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Kind of why I like the soft ablative paints, they at least only need 2-3 knots of boat speed, vs the harder ablatives needing a bit more! WItha 6ksb, that 5 knot speed is hard to get for a long enough time to do the trick.
In California, there isn't a paint made, ablative, hard or otherwise, that is "self-cleaning" when used on a sailboat. Just doesn't happen. Certainly boats that are used more tend to accumulate less growth, but the fouling progression is simply too rapid here for any paint to not need regular cleaning, and I don't care how fast the sailboat goes. That means 4-6 times/year in Northern California, 12-15 times/year in Southern California.

The irony is that by imposing mandatory limitations on hull cleaning frequencies, the state would actually moving away from copper reductions. The less frequently the hull is cleaned, the fouler it becomes. The fouler the hull becomes, the more aggressive the cleaning tools and techniques that are required to remove it. Which of course puts more copper into the water.
04-02-2013 12:50 AM
blt2ski
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

You could be like up here in wash st waters, clean an ablative painted hull, risk a $10K fine! Pretty simple way to stop anyone for cleaning a hull. Kind of why I like the soft ablative paints, they at least only need 2-3 knots of boat speed, vs the harder ablatives needing a bit more! WItha 6ksb, that 5 knot speed is hard to get for a long enough time to dothe trick.

marty
04-01-2013 10:03 PM
capttb
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

I really don't think you guys are making a fortune at $35 a pop Fast.
I think since the state and some local agencies have tried several times to institute copper based paint bans, it would not surprise me to see an "end run" by those concerned.
It does not seem unusual for government and others to institute regulations that are unworkable for all concerned. For example, if they ban in water cleaning, owners have no reasonable alternative, divers and others are negatively impacted to the point of desperation. So, in a month or so the regulation is dropped in favor of a copper paint ban and it suddenly becomes a moderate compromise that sounds better to all involved. Maybe it's a little paranoid but a quick look at the studies says only non-biocide paints produce zero leaching, so it seems this might just be an attempt to gain more support for banning copper.
04-01-2013 05:59 PM
Fstbttms
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
Originally Posted by capttb View Post
After suffering through some sort of "moratorium" it won't hurt so much.
You must think that hull cleaners have some sort of fat bank account or backup job to fall back on. I guarantee that if a moratorium were to occur, most of the hull cleaners in the state would go out of business and have to find something else to do. Me included.
04-01-2013 05:46 PM
capttb
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
I assume you are Newport?
Dana Point, Same Sheriff on Harbor Patrol, just 14 nm south.
Every time I've painted over the last 12 years I've thought it's the last time I'll have a high copper paint. Just a quick reading of the studies make me think the outcome at some point will be "non-biocide" paint. At that point it will be a win-win for all, starving divers can feed their families, boaters have to clean often, but at least they CAN clean.
After suffering through some sort of "moratorium" it won't hurt so much.
04-01-2013 05:11 PM
Fstbttms
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradhamlet View Post
what are bottom people going to do to make the mortage payment.
That's my question as well. But keep in mind, the report has only gotten to the DPR today and nothing is written in stone yet (hopefully.) My goal right now is to make boaters aware of what's coming down the pike. If you are a member of the Recreational Boaters of California organization, I recommend you find out where they stand on this and let them know your position as well. They are a very powerful advocate for boaters in this state.
04-01-2013 04:52 PM
Bradhamlet
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Noooooo! I too have heard the sail it above 5kts and it will all go away. How you going to do that with 3 months of crud on there. Still even with fresh paint and weekly sails above 6kts the crud just grows like crazy in my experience. Fast-Bottom what are we going to do, anchor out and just risk a ticket while cleaning our bottoms? Sorry to be selfish, what are bottom people going to do to make the mortage payment.

Brad
Lancer 36
04-01-2013 04:43 PM
Fstbttms
Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Quote:
Originally Posted by capttb View Post
So this is different than the Certified "Clean Marina" recommendations ? Couple years ago divers here (60 nm north of Shelter Island) had to take a certification class on "Clean Marina Practices". Stressed cleaning methods, practices and materials.
What are the manufacturers gonna recommend ? Once a month with baby diapers or once a year with scrapers ?
Of course the manager of my yard already says if I sailed more I wouldn't need to clean, but I've never seen a boat able to "self clean". It would be like that movie with the exploding bus, always moving at 5 kts. or above.
I assume you are Newport? I believe the course you are referring to was the California Professional Divers Association In-water Hull Cleaning Best Management Practices Certification Course, of which I was an instructor. And yes, this is different. This is the paint manufacturers telling the state agency responsible for regulating anti fouling paints that it's not their products that are the problem, it's the hull cleaners. The manufacturers would have you believe that their products do not need cleaning, which if you keep a boat in the water in California, you know to be patently untrue. So what they expect boaters to do is unknown. We believe that they may push for drastically reduced cleaning frequencies, or possibly a moratorium on hull cleaning for some specified period, like a year or two. We don't really know yet.
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