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Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

9K views 70 replies 21 participants last post by  156680 
#1 ·
Anybody ever try to restore those whiteish, plasticy cutting board things so many boats come with that cover the sinks. The ones on the boat I am courting, we are not married but we have met with our pastor (surveyor), look like something you'd wipe your shoes on. So, has anyone ever tired to sand them or something to improve their looks?

Dave
 
#8 · (Edited)
Unless cleaned and sanitized in the proper way wooden cutting boards are more likely to harbor bacteria in the cracks and crevices than the plastic ones. In many areas the health departments do not all them in commercial kitchens. I suggest a minor expenditure and by new plastic ones.

(I expect t37chef my friend o is agree as it is a topic we both have differing views)

One thing we both would agree upon is that the board needs to be free of grooves and places which would prevent good cleaning and that good sanitation techniques are required no matter hat material. Sanding plastic will open the pores o allow fools debris to be trapped and encourage
bacteria.

USDA Food Code allows both wood and plastc
Dave
 
#6 ·
Well making new ones does sound like a pretty good idea... though I will try sanding them first because that would be a great deal cheaper and easier than the cutting and routing and sanding it would take to make new ones that fit in these odd shaped sinks. Also, this is certainly not the only issue, ha! I didn't want to overwhelm you folks with the list :)). Thanks for the ideas!
 
#12 ·
Yes I agree,

Since the topic is for boat use I still suggest that the plastic ones re the ones most easily sanitized by boars and more likely to be replaced when necessary than the wooden ones.

I would be very few people with wooden ones bleach them after use or even wash, rinse and sanitize them properly

On Haleakula our decorative vanished and protected butcher-block cutting board sits on our stove top. We have a small thin light weight inexpensive ( Less than %10) plastic board to put on top when knife magic is required.:)
 
#13 ·
...that the plastic ones re the ones most easily sanitized by boars and more likely to be replaced when necessary than the wooden ones...
Now, I've heard of crew "living like pigs" and "acting like pigs," but I've never seen actual pigs as crew doing galley chores... :laugher

Sorry, Dave, I couldn't resist ;)
 
#14 ·
Ask for offcuts at a plastics place.. they will often have partial sheets or off cuts at a bargain price.
 
#18 ·
Cut a plywood template and use a router with a tall enough laminate trimming bit.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Don't have a router or easy access to one, I do have a jigsaw so back to my question.

What kind of blade should I use. Fine or coarse?
What??? you want to stay on topic?? ;)

I'd say a finer tooth blade, maybe even a metal cutting hacksaw style. You're likely to get some melting anyway, and the coarse saw marks are harder to clean up. I've cut similar stuff on a tablesaw and tried to 'iron out' the kerf marks but didn't really have any luck with that. A fine cheese-grate type rasp might do a decent job of post-cut cleanup.

Don't forget to disinfect the blade before cutting the raw meat template...:p ;)
 
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#52 ·
What??? you want to stay on topic?? ;)

I'd say a finer tooth blade, maybe even a metal cutting hacksaw style. You're likely to get some melting anyway, and the coarse saw marks are harder to clean up. I've cut similar stuff on a tablesaw and tried to 'iron out' the kerf marks but didn't really have any luck with that. A fine cheese-grate type rasp might do a decent job of post-cut cleanup.

Don't forget to disinfect the blade before cutting the raw meat template...:p ;)
Touche:p:p:D:D
 
#20 ·
I recently received a Corian cutting board that came with the following cleaning instructions, which might be applicable to other types of plastic cutting boards...

"Stubborn stains rub off with an abrasive household cleanser and a Scotch-Brite pad. Even tougher stains disappear using fine grade (180-220 grit) sandpaper. Buffing afterwards with a Scotch-Brite pad will return the surface to its original matte finish."
 
#21 ·
Dave, I've got a couple of thick high density old fashioned cutting boards that refuse to come clean, even with bleach overnight. I figure, if bleach overnight won't make them cleaner...whatever the problem is, probably isn't something that can contaminate my food. I suppose that if I were ambitious I would try concentrated acid (muratic?) to clean them, but at that point a new cutting board probably would be cheaper and safer.

chef-
I've heard so many times that wood cutting boards are actually SAFER than plastic, because the wood absorbs moisture, which dries out bacteria and ruptures their cell walls, killing them more effectively than any cleaning of plastic boards would.
Has everyone been lying to me again? Or are things just different for you, with boards that are in use for many hours in a row with no opportunity to suck the moisture out?
 
#24 ·
Or are things just different for you, with boards that are in use for many hours in a row with no opportunity to suck the moisture out?
I'll give this a go. regardless of the material,( wood or plastic) bacteria multiply over time, given the right temperature and conditions. In a commercial kitchen, ( or at home) best practice dictates that any food contact surface like a cutting board in "constant" use for 4 hours should be changed out washed, rinsed, sanitized and allowed to air dry. This would also include, knives, gloves if worn, counters, slicers etc.
Basically, one should be breaking their work station down within that time frame. and re-set. Plastic has no special ability that allows it to be in constant use for a longer time frame without intermediate cleaning and sanitizing, nor does wood.
if someone is cutting up chickens for 5 or 6 hours on the same board they're playing with fire. Growth is exponential. Even produce can be problematic. Cross contamination is another topic..
 
#23 · (Edited)
Ok so what you are saying is its ok to leave food and bacteria on a cutting board that the sap ( what a ridiculous analogy) will kill the bacteria.


Shawn so how do you clean a wood cutting board on the boat. No varnish on it right? Oil. ? Do you think most boaters clean the boars the right way?

Shawn, Does the culinary school you teach in use wooden or does it use
plastic cutting boards.? I would assume wood right?

Dave
 
#57 ·
Shawn so how do you clean a wood cutting board on the boat. No varnish on it right? Oil. ? Do you think most boaters clean the boars the right way?
Not to speak for Shawn, but I clean my boars by tying a line around a hind leg and dragging them behind the boat. *grin*

For wooden cutting boards I have a different protocol.

First I have clearly different bits for heavy cleaning (sponges, boiled and dried or replaced periodically), counter cleaning (rags and towels), and drying (rags and towels). At sea, drying towels become cleaning towels after a couple of days.

Second I maintain different cutting surfaces for meat and veg. I use a half-sheet pan as a cofferdam over the veg board on my cooker to place the meat board on. I grouse about the extra cleaning after a meal but that's the way it goes.

Third, even on delivery I carry a squirt bottle to put diluted vinegar in. As noted bacteria grow exponentially. After cleaning cutting surfaces with soap and hot water and wiping water off (not necessarily completely dry) I spray with the vinegar solution and let dry.

Even on delivery with a good size crew I don't have production cooking to do. There is plenty of time for cutting boards to dry before next use.

I have found very few people understand how to handle food or clean and sanitize properly at home. Very few know cook o, reheat temps to kill bacteria. Most cool down or thaw improperly. Lots of cross contamination issues. People do crazy things like leave opened peanut butter and butter unrefrigerated. Cool pots of soup on the counter. Don't date or follow dates of food in the reefer. Most don't use gloves when preparing foods. Most don't wash clean and sanitize when preparing or using cutting boards through the process of switching tasks.
I can't compete with others in this thread for certifications. I do have a background in science and engineering and can think and consider issues in a structured fashion. I've also worked in government long enough to know that sometimes regulation is based on perception as much as science.

I don't cook with gloves on.

I do sail with an insertion thermometer (actually three on my own boat, one on delivery).

I do cool things on the stove top or in the sink. I can't afford the amp-hours by sticking something hot in the fridge to cool, and don't want to risk raising the temperature in there of other items. Leftovers have to be brought back to temp; that deals with bacteria but as noted not the potential toxins. That is Russian roulette. That no one has gotten sick on my watch is not relevant. The numbers aren't big enough to be statistically significant.

Most dates on food are "best if used by" dates for flavor not "you'll die if you eat this after" dates.

On board with limited cooled space I keep eggs in the bilge or low storage. I keep peanut butter in a locker. Butter is in the cooler or reefer if I don't have a butter bell. I get mayonnaise (when I don't make it from scratch) and mustard in squeeze bottles to avoid contamination from utensils (I'd get peanut butter the same way if I could find it). Same with ketchup.

The problem with squeeze bottles is contribution to the waste stream in places that don't support recycling. It pains me. Still life is a compromise.

In no way should anything I describe be considered as being offered as "the answer." I'm not qualified to make such statements. I am simply an engineer who loves to cook and does my research. I have made my own risk management decisions applied to the environment on a boat.

I will say that on delivery the boats I move always get turned back to the owner with much cleaner galleys than when I took possession. *grin*
 
#25 ·
As a certified Serv Safe Instructor and Protor ( I think T37chef is also) we are responsible for teaching as well as proctoring the food safety and national sanitation course recognized by the FDA with respect to the USDA Food Code.

In addition I am a certified HACCP inspector and instructor for the USDA which certifies facilities which handle food in the industry such as food processing plants, restaurants, airplanes, super markets etc. I have trained many of the county Health Inspectors in DC, South Jersey and other areas,

Food safety and sanitation is not complicated and is based on scientific principals of bacterial growth, bacterial intoxication and poisons. proper safety procedures, HACCP principals. etc. HACCP was forst developed to allow the astronauts to go into space in a safe food environment so they would get sick while in orbit from the food or sanitation.

It is not overly complicated. Without the cross contamination issue its important to wash, rinse, and sanitize ( either heat or chemical) food surface contact equipment to insure minimal bacterial growth. In addition is important to put barriers in place to minimize bacterial growth. The barriers include food, time, temperature, oxygen, moisture and acidity. There are specific cook temps for proteins as well as holding temps etc.

The requirements of a food contact surface or utensil is that it is wash rinsed and sanitized between tasks as well as no longer than 4 hours. That's a long time though. And also that is the total time the food equipment is allowed in the temperature danger zone of 41 degrees to 135 degrees, In addition it needs to be made of a material which is easily washed rinsed and sanitized and doesn't have cracks, porous surface for food debris to remain trapped so as to satisfy one of the requirements for bacteria to multiply....food.

Also should be noted that it isn't always the bacteria which gets a person sick, but can also be the toxin the bacteria produces. So you can kill the bacteria with proper heat principals, but the toxin may remain to sicken individuals.

Most people get food poisoning a mild case about 5 times a year and attribute the diherrea or upset stomach to a 24 hour virus. Most healthy adults can handle bacteria in their system, but infants, elderly and those with compromised immunities can die from food borne illness.

Most boats are not equipped to really wash rinse and sanitize properly cutting boards, utensils, pots and pans etc. The sinks alone do not fit the cutting boards for instance to adequately. The two types of sanitization is heat ( rinse temp of 180 degrees in a dishwasher or chemical. Usually this involves a quaternary solution at a specific ph sprayed and air dried on the piece of equipment. Vinegar can be effective in the CORRECT concentration of 1 part 5% vinegar to 4 parts water.

The reason most restaurants are required to use plastic cutting boards is that the ease of running a cutting board through a 180 degree rinse dish machine has been found to be more effectively done correctly than wiping down other food contact equipment with quaternary or vinegar.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Dave, that's a great summary.

I didn't want to get too far into the woods (pun intended). You can add me to your list of SS instructor/proctors, We seem to have many of the same credentials. I also teach the Food Marketing Institute's course called SafeMark, which many supermarkets seem to prefer over ServSafe. Both are recognized by the conference for food protection. There's little difference in the two really. Both are based on the FDA Food Code. I wear a number of hats, the above I do as part of the " Extension" mission of the University I work for. Typical clients are Supermarkets like Shoprite, Quick Check, Hospitals etc. I also certify the students I teach in regular undergraduate courses during the school year as part of their coursework. Prior to that much of my career before I ( sort of ) retired was spent designing and building large commercial foodservice operations. Though, I've built a few smaller places like Dunkin Donuts, Pizzarias, delis etc.
Prior to switching gears, I used to wear one of those white hats..graduated from the CIA etc. in my yute..and put my time in kitchens. I just found that I loved the design and construction aspect; partly inspired by one of my CIA instructors. I still play in some test kitchens, and occasionally like this past January get to teach a class. But I mostly cook for my pleasure now and hopefully that of my guests. The nice thing about being semi-retired is that I get do a variety of things like teach safe-boating classes etc. And go sailing more often.

That said, I don't have the aversion to wood boards that you seem to have provided they are properly maintained. I use both on the boat and at home. Given the link I provided earlier to the UCDavis study, there might be some evidence to support wood over plastic on boats and in homes. Though, one study is not definitive. It may be interesting to see if one of the graduate or Phd students in our food micro-lab would be willing to take on a similar study. One is doing his Thesis on Handwashing, with some surprising findings.

Regards,
 
#30 ·
Dave, that's a great summary.

I didn't want to get too far into the woods (pun intended). You can add me to your list of SS instructor/proctors, We seem to have many of the same credentials. I also teach the Food Marketing Institute's course called SafeMark, which many supermarkets seem to prefer over ServSafe. Both are recognized by the conference for food protection. There's little difference in the two really. Both are based on the FDA Food Code. I wear a number of hats, the above I do as part of the " Extension" mission of the University I work for. Typical clients are Supermarkets like Shoprite, Quick Check, Hospitals etc. I also certify the students I teach in regular undergraduate courses during the school year as part of their coursework. Prior to that much of my career before I ( sort of ) retired was spent designing and building large commercial foodservice operations. Though, I've built a few smaller places like Dunkin Donuts, Pizzarias, delis etc.
Prior to switching gears, I used to wear one of those white hats..graduated from the CIA etc. in my yute..and put my time in kitchens. I just found that I loved the design and construction aspect; partly inspired by one of my CIA instructors. I still play in some test kitchens, and occasionally like this past January get to teach a class. But I mostly cook for my pleasure now and hopefully that of my guests. The nice thing about being semi-retired is that I get do a variety of things like teach safe-boating classes etc. And go sailing more often.

That said, I don't have the aversion to wood boards that you seem to have provided they are properly maintained. I use both on the boat and at home. Given the link I provided earlier to the UCDavis study, there might be some evidence to support wood over plastic on boats and in homes. Though, one study is not definitive. It may be interesting to see if one of the graduate or Phd students in our food micro-lab would be willing to take on a similar study. One is doing his Thesis on Handwashing, with some surprising findings.

Regards,
Hopefully we get a chance to get together this year when we come north. I think it will be sometime near August 18 when we are oing to be at Atlantic Highlands on the way up to the LISound.

How is the recovery going?
 
#27 ·
Dave you're missing the point...while I understand and would advocate that in a commercial kitchen one should use plastic, washing and sanitizing properly...BUT for the home cook/boater I am advocating that a wooden cutting board is a better choice in my opinion, additionally I have provided other resources, most notable is the UC Davis study, which supports my opinion about the use of wooden cutting boards.

Once again, I am not advocating the use of wood in commercial kitchens, but on a boat (or home) where moisture is more likely the use if wooden boards is safer.
 
#28 ·
in addition, your question whether or not boater actually wash and sanitize their cutting boards on a boat is EXACTLEY the reason I would advocate the use of wood due to it ability to absorb water and dry, therefore leaving a unsustianable area for bacteria growth.

To each their own, different perspectives and thoughts, up to the individual to make an educated decision. I will continue to use wood cutting boards at home and on the boat :)
 
#34 · (Edited)
You know we won't agree on this and will remain friends and dock mates.

I have read your reasoning and partially agree. I do understand you reasoning and have read your one study from Cal Davis numerous times. I do follow the USDA Food Code which does allow use of wood when PROPERLY sanitized.

I have to explain my thinking though
addition, your question whether or not boater actually wash and sanitize their cutting boards on a e I would advocate the use of wood due to it ability to absorb water and dry- T37chef
We both agree the wood is porous and will absorb water. It will also absorb blood and protein liquid also. So lets look at a common scenario on a boat or home kitchen with one cutting board and multiple prep items with your AVERAGE boater who does not really follow good sanitization rules like a trained professional would.

We are making beef stew. So we take the wood cutting board and maybe start by spraying with vinegar to sanitize ( highly doubtful) and proceed to cut and cube the meat for browning. In the perfect world when done cutting meat we wash , rinse , spray with vinegar before we begin the next task. Now here's where it gets tricky as the reasoning he board dries better so there is no moisture or bacteria. We immediately proceed to use the board to cut vegetables. By admitting the board is more porous than plastic it has absorbed some of the blood through the small capillaries the wood has. Now you cut vegetables on it.....cross contamination....a plastic cutting board would not be porous and therefore would not keep the blood proteins. A person is more likely to change a cheap plastic cutting board when it is old and gouged than a custom one. If I could trust the average person to wash rinse and sanitize properly I might agree.

Lastly I want to make I understand wood advocates say that a porous wood board which absorbs moisture when left to air dry drys faster and more completely than a plastic non porous board. That's hard to beleive and makes no sense. Seeing as moisture is one of the required components for bacterial growth, how does this fit in.

I like consistency. If its good enough for most of the industry to use plastic, for whatever reason ( despite both can be used by FDA Code) why have two different sets of rules. If anyone should be using wood it is the industry professionals who have a better chance of using proper sanitation techniques than the average boater, house husband/wife, child etc.

Thanks all for the discussion of different views with respect. On this issue it appears some of us may just have to agree to disagree:)
 
#29 ·
the regulations were made for the commercial kitchens for a reason--eateries were filthy. home kitchens were much cleaner, still are, btw.....
whatever you decide to do , make sure the thing doesnt fly out of the sink when you are in pitching seas. could be important.

weekly disinfecting of the board never hurt anyone....rinse thoroughly when done..lol..i wash mine in sea water and rinse with vinegar and let dry. aint dead yet.
 
#31 ·
Actually I think home kitchens are far more bacteria laden than commercial kitchens. Many in the industry are aware of the food handling rules such as cook to temps, reheat temps, sanitizing , amount of time to keep leftovers , cooling of foods and they are inspected and required to have t least one person there during operation hours certified.

The reasons are obvious. They prepare food a head of time for service maybe the next day where t home it's usually, prepare, cook, eat in one process. They are also responsible or getting large numbers sick at once where t home it just a small few. These re just a few reasons.

I have found very few people understand how to handle food or clean and sanitize properly at home. Very few know cook o, reheat temps to kill bacteria. Most cool down or thaw improperly. Lots of cross contamination issues. People do crazy things like leave opened peanut butter and butter unrefrigerated. Cool pots of soup on the counter. Don't date or follow dates of food in the reefer. Most don't use gloves when preparing foods. Most don't wash clean and sanitize when preparing or using cutting boards through the process of switching tasks.
 
#32 ·
We're drifting away from the OP (but it's still a good discussion...) ;)

While the points are valid, I am not as cautious as Dave advocates. Cross contamination is a risk, but we aren't going to make our kitchen/galley a level 4 bio containment area. If we do drop the ball and wind up with a bacteria problem, we're talking about a little intestinal distress for short while and it will have absolutely no impact on my income (unlike a commercial kitchen, and today's "you can't swing a cat without hitting an ambulance chasing lawyer" society which is a really bad combo.) Mind you, we clean as we go and have a dedicated meat board which is only used for raw meat and a couple of small chopping boards for everything else so we aren't ignoring safe practices -- just not getting anally retentive about it.

I also happen to have convinced myself that a little bacteria is a good thing -- it keeps the immune system strong. (Probably whistling through the graveyard, but it works for me.)
 
#35 ·
I dont get your example of Cross Contamination as I assume the vegetables you mentioned being cut after the beef are to be used in the stew? Which properly made will simmer at 180 degrees for at least an hour or more :) LOL

Anyway, as mentioned we will agree to disagree about the use of wooden cutting boards vs. plastic for home/boat use.

I would router the edges of that new cutting board the OP wants to fit to their sink :)

Sorry for the off topic rant!
 
#36 ·
I dont get your example of Cross Contamination as I assume the vegetables you mentioned being cut after the beef are to be used in the stew? Which properly made will simmer at 180 degrees for at least an hour !
It was the vegetables for the salad too, as well as the cantaloupe for dessert. Neither will be cooked any further:):)
 
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