SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Eye splice in double braid

7K views 32 replies 20 participants last post by  smurphny 
#1 ·
I need to replace my topping lift.

I picked up a length of 3/8ths double braid.

I want to put an eye splice in one end.

I have read how-to's from on-line.

THE NORSON SPLICE

DOUBLE BRAID EYE SPLICE


Class I Double Braid Eye Splice


I have watched the videos:





It looks reasonably straight forward. This scares me. I know there will come a point where I ask myself 'why the eff didn't I get a pro to do this for me?'

What I am asking for is any pointers, hints, watchpoints, secrets, etc. from any experienced marlin-spikers out there.

Anyone got anything to offer?

Keep your eyes on the news: this might get interesting....
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Practice on a short disposable piece.
If it doesn't work out - take it to WM and pony up the 10-15 bucks to have it done.
Or - do what I do a lot - sew a eye in with whipping twine and a needle (pass the needle through both pieces, wrap, through, wrap - twice the diameter of the line). It looks nautical and I've tested eye's with my 190 pounds.

Having a topping lift drop the boom into the cockpit is not fun.
 
#3 ·
Go for it. On new line it really isn't too hard. On used line it gets tough, but Samson documents an eye splice for old line that is a lot easier.

I did my first eye splice in a class and it was useful to do one in that environment and see the mistakes that everyone made because then I could learn how to account for them. That was well worth the $10 or $15 that the class cost me. If you do make mistakes you can undo steps on the splice at any time and fix them.

For a topping lift I would personally use Amsteel. 1/8" or 5/32" Amsteel is much easier to splice than double braid and a lot lighter. That light weight is an advantage on a topping lift because it blows it out behind the sail and it will never catch the sail during a tack, even in the lightest winds. I even made one topping lift using 2mm Amsteel, but that is much harder to splice because it is so small (fids don't fit down the line).

chucklesR: Your method of tying the line back on itself like that would be okay for low-load applications, but I don't think it will come close to retaining 90% of line strength. This is especially true for core-dependent lines.
 
#4 ·
I will add that I really like some of the splices on this page:
http://l-36.com/splice.php

The double braid to amsteel splice is really useful for halyards or lightweight tapered sheets. His instructions for the brummel splice are easy to follow. If you get into splicing you should also try out his method for making a soft shackle, it is pretty easy and works very nicely.
 
#5 ·
Alex,
True, any bend/knot reduces strength. Topping lifts aren't exactly high load, even on my 16 foot boom/500+ sq mainsail I can pick the whole thing up at an estimate of 120 pound of weight.
Truely, so what since the line is rated at 1000+ pounds.
 
#6 ·
I have to tell you that you need to buy some low end line and practice :) because it is MUCH HARDER than it looks

When I had to replace the constant diameter endless line on my furling mainsail Knothead had some great videos

BUT there are just fifty little things than don't show up even on the best instruction set





It had to be done onboard the boat to a fairly exact length along with pretty much needing to be perfectly bump free to work correctly

So I started playing around and it took about 30 try's to reach the point were I understood how to make it come out to the right length and diameter 100% of the time

As once I cut the old line I was NOT sailing again until it was done and every mistake would have cost about 45 dollars :eek:
 
#7 ·
Thanks all for the responses so far - please keep em coming.

it is MUCH HARDER than it looks
- that's what I thought :eek:

BUT there are just fifty little things than don't show up even on the best instruction set
- these are the 50 things I want to know. :rolleyes:

Thanks again all.
 
#8 ·
chuck: This is a thread about splicing first, the fact that it is for a topping lift is secondary. I'd hate for someone to read your post and have them use nothing but a whipping in a halyard or other important line. A bowline is a lot stronger (at about 50% of line strength).

A topping lift sees much higher loads than the weight of the boom. It only takes one gorilla pulling on the mainsheet of a small boat to put a 400-500lb load onto the topping lift. I'd also expect the loads to be higher when the sail is being reefed in high winds and the boom is bouncing around with the sail.

I've had good luck splicing to exact lengths at home by marking the old piece of line and bringing it home with me, then making the new one to match.
 
#9 ·
It is not that hard. In fact, I think it is much easier than it looks. Follow the video from New England Ropes and pause at each stage. Last week I was splicing 5/16 line for lazy jacks and found that using the the next size smaller fid to pull the core through the cover made it much easier. Use the proper size fid for everything else though.

Other things I learned:
- tape the core/cover to the end of the fid before inserting in case you lose the end of the fid.
- When pulling the cover back over at the very last step, keep tension on the core so it does not bunch up. His tip of snapping the cover is great. You may have to snap it a couple of times to get it perfect.
- Use a water soluble pen if you do not want to see the pen marks on your final eye.
- Mark the core with 1, 2 and 3 lines respectively to know exactly where you are.
- Be patient. You can do it.
 
#12 ·
+1
Especially the part about pausing at each stage. Get yourself some inexpensive line to practice a few times on before you do the real one. It really isn't hard when you get the hang of it, and you will be grateful to have the skill!
 
#10 ·
A couple of years ago I was exactly where you are...needing to do some double braid eye splices and never having done one before. I did the research you did and read and re-read the instructions a few dozen times to make sure I understood them.

My first couple of attempts were not quite right and looked like crap. With each succeeding splice the splices got better and I could do them faster and had to refer to the instructions less and less.

The hardest parts are inserting the core back into the cover and the final milking of the cover. The best tape I found for wrapping the end of the braid before pushing with the fid was Priority Mail packing tape.

Good luck. You can do it.
 
#11 ·
Just do it. Seriously, it's MUCH EASIER than it looks. Try it, you have absolutely nothing to lose except a couple dollars of line. Buy 15' of Sta-Set and practice a few times. For now, stay away from Sta-Set-X or anything with a parallel core - they're challenging to work.

I taught myself to splice 3 strand at 14 yrs and double braid a couple years later. The ability to do an eye on a moment's notice is a great liberator. I save splicing for "quiet - time" when I want to relax in the cockpit at the end of the day.

Ironically, I have 119' of 11mm VPC into which I need to put an eye. NE Ropes suggests a core-to-core eye which is new to me. I'm hesitant but will give it a go.... my manhood is at stake...I'll post a picture if it comes out ok.... :laugher
 
#14 ·
I replaced three halyards on my last boat and spliced everything myself. I agree with Sabre, it really isn't hard to do a basic eye. For some of the more complicated things, like the single-line reefer, I can see where those would be more of a challenge. But an eye isn't that bad - heck, even I can do it.
 
#16 ·
You can use a coat hanger as a fid, it will fit any size line, almost. Just bend it to the shape of the fid, then bend the ends 90 degrees facing each other. The last part is the hardest. 1/4 in. is all you want at the ends. The ends are somewhat sharp and act as a hook in the line, then just tape over the core and fid end.
 
#17 ·
With a bowline I can rig it in less time that it took to type the first 4 words, and I can move the line a few feet in a few years to spread the chafe.

I believe 80% of splices are just for fun and looks, while against function. Only if the line is very highly loaded, knotting unreliable (Amsteel) or when space is very tight (rare). Sometimes worse (jam in a block).

I think the only splice on my boat may be on the anchor rode.
 
#18 ·
Half of the splices on my boat are for fun. I'd count ones like the eyesplice in the end of my mainsheet that way. I could even argue that a bowline is better because I can reposition it and make the line last longer.

Half are because I'm cheap on materials and like to do the end to end splice of Amsteel to double braid (so the time doesn't bother me). You get something as strong and effective as Samson Warpspeed for the price of XLS. It's great for high load low stretch lines like reefing lines, outhaul, etc. I wish I knew how to do it before buying my current (expensive) halyards.

I am happier with eye splices and a soft shackle at the end of my jib sheets than using bowlines there. The only knot is the small diamond knot in the soft shackle so my jib sheets blow across the standing rigging a lot more easily than using bowlines or even a cow hitch on the clew.

The other useful splices are the 16 brummel splices on my life lines and 2 brummel splices on my topping lift. These are places where Amsteel makes sense as a replacement for cable.
 
#20 ·
As has been said, get some line to practice on because it takes a few tries to get it right. Follow all the instructions exactly and if you can get the fancy splicing fids/wands, it'll make it easier although the final "milking" stage is the hardest--PURE WORK. Get some good leather gloves and a vice to do this final stage.
 
#21 ·
I finished the core-to-core eye. It wasn't bad, but I didn't "see" it until the very end when I buried the core(s). I was convinced that there was no way that it would bury. I could not get the cover tail to bury so I pulled it out and stitched it to the line. Photos follow.

New England Ropes has somewhat different ratios (New England Ropes - Splicing Guide) than in the following video.

A nice video is at

To anyone who is apprehensive toward trying their own splices, they should just give it a try. There is no downside, only upside. I have never, ever had an eye even come close to letting go. It's one of those things that can be taught by reading.







 
#23 ·
That's great for laid line - I can do that easily enough.

It's the double braid I want to try.

I've got my splice almost complete now. Just down to the tugging stage. Everything seems jammed up. I'm going to try using a come-along. Trouble is: it's snowing outside. Snowing!!!!! :hothead
 
#25 ·
What you can't tie a bowline in double braid? :)

Actually I'm following this thread with interest. Splicing is an area that I know next to nothing about, but would like to.

MedSailor
Earlier on pdqaltair made some great arguments against splicing and promoted the bowline.

I just wanted to try the splice. But so far I wouldn't call it 'fun'. :mad:
 
#30 ·
A guy I used to sail with gave me the tip of using K-Y lubricant jelly to help when milking the core into the cover. Although I wondered if it would leave the splice too slippery, it seems to rinse out fairly easily after the splice is complete.

The best part is telling the clerk at the store that you're buying the K-Y for splicing.
 
#32 ·
I spliced my new VPC halyards and my Sta-Set sheets. Practiced first by splicing line on to all my fenders. One thing that makes it easier to milk in the end of the splice is to POUND THE CRAP out of the thickened line w/ a rubber mallet! Or some large, hard object. Basically get all the fibers to soften and orient themselves in the least twisted up way so the whole mess will slide in to place.
I got two of my VPC core to core splices to bury the cover, the other two I ended up tacking down and wrapping.

AMSTEEL is great and the brummel is easy to do, especially if you use both ends to make the brummel. I'm splicing 1/8" for lazy jacks; a bit tricky b/c it's so thin. What I found works is to pass a splicing wand down the body of the line from the place you want the tail to exit and then butt the piece you want to bury to the end and tape into place. Then just withdraw the wand and VOILA! Pull out the tail, taper and milk it home.
You definitely want to lockstitch AMSTEEL though.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top