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Dousing headsails in breeze when the main is down?

3K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  downeast450 
#1 ·
So it seems many cruisers take down the main entirely and run twin headsails, or a headsail and an assymetric, kite, for ddw passages.

I just learned that running under a small headsail only, no main, is a storm tactic as well, apparently the boat is far more stable downwind without the main. Some good articles here on sa: Some seamanship topics for discussion - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums (also some other good safety related topics)

But I always run downwind and blanket the bow with the main when I hoist or douse any foresail, jib or especially kite, if there is any breeze (over say 7-10 knots).

How do you raise/lower headsails without the main in breeze? Let them luff in front of the forestay by releasing the sheets all the way till its up? Can't do that to take it down tho, at least not the jib... (Assuming no furler, I don't have one nor do most race boats)

If you go upwind under jib alone you can luff the main and reef/raise/lower it no prob obviously. Is this what you must do? What if ur running in big air, you may not be able to hold onto the jib upwind without just rounding up, so then what? Just try to manhandle it?
 
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#3 ·
What works will depend upon conditions. Running with just a jib up puts the center of effort of the sail(s) well forward - in the direction of the boat's heading- and so can help stabilize the boat in rough conditions. If the breeze picks up too much and you need to drop the jib(s), they may need to be pulled down. The wind might keep the sail up even if the halyard is released. In such conditions, turning the boat into the wind to luff the jib (and thus help it to drop) might put the boat at dangerous angles to the waves. Cautious sailhandling would call for dropping the sails BEFORE it got too crazy to do it safely. We saw a squall coming once during a Chicago-Mackinac race. We dropped and furled all our sails well before the black cloud arrived overhead. When it hit, the Pearson 37 was pushed at 8 knots dead downwind with no sails up. We had learned, of course, from having blown the head off a spinnaker earlier in the race.
 
#4 ·
With a hanked-on jib/genoa, the 'best' way to do this is with a jack-line attached to near the head of the jib, then run to block at the stem and run back to at least the base of the mast.
Just 'blow' the (captured) halyard, pull hell on the jack-line (from the relative safety of the mast base or cockpit) until the sail is fully down; no need to release the jibsheet, in fact its better to fully pull-in the jibsheet before dowsing.
 
#17 ·
Since I added a jib downhaul things have been much more comfortable in all conditions. It makes good sense to me to have it rigged. I had to change the jamb cleat to a larger one from my original install. I started with a nylon cleat sized for the line I use and managed to cut into the nylon base of the fairlead because of the high loads that are present sometimes. I am working from the cockpit pulling up on the downhaul line. The jamb cleat is low on the outside of the cockpit coaming. I need to change its location to reduce that angle by moving it forward a bit.

Down
 
#5 ·
With a furled headsail, having no means of heading up to luff the sail is flirting with disaster. The luff tape on furled sails would likely be too tight to pull the halyard down manually in an emergency. The only option may be to blow the sail and hope it could be rolled up before getting wrapped- not a good situation. Not only that but if you're poled out, you may not be able to get the pole detached without extreme danger.
 
#6 ·
I take it we are talking about hanked on head sails because all you would do is roll up the furler, on a roller furler. The only Hanked on sail I have is the staysail.
 
#14 ·
Not as easy as it sounds if your foresail is full in heavier winds. In fact, almost impossible - I also hate the idea of using the winch on the furler, but I was caught out once when if was impossible to furl the sail any other way. Scared the heck out of me. Even if released and flogging, in enough wind a manual furl is almost impossible. (Yeah, I was dumb not to have at least part-furled it earlier).

I can't help wondering if, in the dire scenario we are discussing, hauling the sail down the furler would work better (less strain on the rig) - but it would be dangerous.
 
#9 ·
Maybe my 60s vintage furling is antiquated compared to newer rigs. Don't you guys have trouble rolling up when there is wind in the sail? I can only roll up effectively when the sail is luffing (or close to it). When I roll in some headsail, I always need to head up to relieve the tension. It seems like when the forestay is deflected from wind pressure, this must be the case with any furler.??
 
#10 ·
I've been caught with just my headsail up and waiting far too long to furl it. This occurs mainly during times when I'm singlehanded, sailing downwind like a bat out of Hell, and stupidly believing the wind will lessen before I need to furl the sail - WRONG!

Each time I've been caught with my sail up and my pants down I resorted to firing up the engine, running downwind as hard as possible, and using every ounce of strength to furl the jib.

I've also turned the bow into the wind and while jib flailed wildly, furled the sail, again, using all the muscle this old man could possibly muster. Of course, this beats the sail to death while you're furling, the jib sheets are flying wildly, and the sail is furled so tight it resembles a toothpick on the bow.

There have been times when I thought to myself "What the Hell would I do if the furling line were to part?" That's why I'm going to change the 10-year-old furling line this week to a new, and larger, furling line.

Good subject,

Gary :cool:
 
#11 · (Edited)
I think there are definite improvements with today's furlers, but it still takes considerable effort to furl a loaded sail - and using a winch on a furling line scares me - too much power and if things are jammed up you might break something.

My preference is even a maximally reefed main to hide the sail, or at least part of it, behind and to furl/reef while heading downwind. However on long, rolly downwind passages I can definitely see the advantage and safety of not having a main up and avoiding the risk of unintended gybes and/or backwinded mains on preventers.

There have been times when I thought to myself "What the Hell would I do if the furling line were to part?" That's why I'm going to change the 10-year-old furling line this week to a new, and larger, furling line.

Good subject,

Gary :cool:
Be careful here, Gary... when you go to heavier line you can fill the drum before the sail's fully in. If you use heavier line it's a good idea to remove the core (or the cover) for the portion that 'lives' on the drum.. it reduces the drum fill but leaves you with heavier, easier to hand line in the cockpit.

Core vs Cover?... the core-less cover tends to roll 'flat' onto the drum and is said to be less prone to overrides.. removing the cover reduces diameter too and the core supplies the bulk of the strength of the line.. it's also a bit easier to do.... On a previous boat we stripped the cover off of 3/8 line and ran it over the aft half of a small dyneema type furling line to give us the grip.. tapered and stitched the cover onto the small diameter line where it ended.
 
#12 ·
Don't think I'd ever use a winch to haul in the furler. Putting that kind of pressure on the forestay sounds like a recipe for bringing down the whole fn shebang. I replaced the line last year and agree that a larger diameter line might not all fit on the drum, especially if(when) it decides to pile up in the wrong place. I wonder how straight 1/4" Dyneema would work.
 
#13 · (Edited)
1/4 inch dyneema would work fine except you couldn't grip it well enough to use it, esp when heavily loaded.. but sewing a larger cover over it for the portion that reaches the cockpit as described above would work fine.

The smallish, slippery line that Harken provides with their furlers is kinda crappy for that too.. it's on our list to replace.

Oh, and to Peter (OP), we've drifted away from the original premise, which was hanked or headfoil sails, not furlers... Race boats usually have enough crew to muscle things down. I'd probably oversheet and bring the sail over the deck, leave the sheet tight and dump the halyard. With hanks the neat thing is the wind tends to 'blow' the sail down unlike upwind where it can tend to pull the head up the stay. As mentioned earier a jib downhaul would help .. the tight sheet also keeps the bulk of the sail on deck. A luff tape sail in a foil, without crew, is VERY difficult to keep on board in those conditions.
 
#18 ·
Well, I just replaced the jib furling line, went from 1/4-inch to 5/16-inch, which makes it a bit easier to grip, and doesn't seem to take up much more space on the drum. The Alado furling system I use employs a rather large, aluminum drum, which for the most part, makes furling easier than some of the small drum systems I've seen.

If you're interested in switching from hank-on to roller furling, you may want to take a good look at Alado at ALADO - Furler and Roller - main page

Gary :cool:
 
#19 ·
I think the original poster implied that he had hanked on headsails... If this is so I have read many places that a down haul is the way to go... An earlier reply may have refered to it as a jack line. I don't know if this is in some places synonymous with down haul. The only jack lines I've learned a out are rigged on the deck for harness and teather clip-ins.
 
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