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Informal, unscientific survey

4K views 39 replies 39 participants last post by  SlowButSteady 
#1 · (Edited)
I sit on the board of a quasi-public corporation that looks after the maritime assets of a small New England seaport. One of our corporate responsibilties is to provide harbormaster services to the town. Our Harbormaster has recently come under some criticism by some town officials for not issuing enough citations -- he's issued one or two "moving violation" citations in the harbor in the last five years. He says his enforcement philosophy is to work with boaters, to educate them on the wisdom of doing the right thing and only to use legal sanctions when he has to tell you twice. The police chief thinks he's a whimp and should be busting more people for the marine equivalent of traffic violations.

Three questions for the gathered nautical cognosenti:

1/ Have you ever been cited (ticketed) while boating? How many times in how many years on the water?

2/ How many boaters do you know who have been cited (ticketed) by a harbormaster or harbor police?

3/ What's your reaction when you hear about a harbor where the rules of the road are strictly enforced? Is this the kind of place you want to visit because you know you'll be safe? or the kind of place you'll avoid for fear of a guy with a glock and a flak jacket driving 250 HP of flashing blue lights?

Note: responses will not be attributed to any individual.

Thanks for your help in bringing some hard facts to what can only be described as a political mud slinging contest. :)

PS for CD: this is about politics, but it's also about boating -- so I beg your indulgence!
 
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#2 ·
1) 1 large ticket in a small pond in Ohio, 6 feet deep. Driving a 10 ft jon boat.
Overweight, no life jackets, unregistered, 6-pack hanging off the side; $450 fine. they finally caught me because they got tired of walking in circles around the pond. No kidding. I really tried to lead them in circles for a while.

2)No one

3)That's a place where they are trying to generate revenue rather than good will.

Unfortunately; police forces have evolved from Peace officers to Police officers.
 
#3 ·
1.) never in over 50 years of boating of all kinds.

2.) no one I know. did see a powerboater pulled over for speeding in a no wake zone..he was going to get a ticket for sure.

3.) have never really encountered that level of scrutiny on the water. Did live in a town,where the local PD constantly set up traffic stops and friends eventually told me they were tired of getting pulled over for no good reason when leaving my town after dinner.

FWIW, I think your Harbormaster, sounds fair. Speak to them once...before issuing a summons. Sounds like a good for business approach too. Boaters spend money, So the town's business owners could lose money if people stay away..
Maybe you should elect the harbormaster to office...sounds like has more sense than those in office..
 
#5 · (Edited)
Have there been multiple incidents in that location over an extended period? If not where is the problem? It sounds a bit like the police chief is looking to enhance his "law and order" appearance for political gain. You might let him know that he may very well be driving away many tax dollars the town sees through retail and other services concerning the port. By and large those who own boats have some financial wherewithal and will in effect vote with their feet if things get ticky tacky in the way of ticket quotas etc. I don't envy you in this adventure as it were.
 
#6 ·
I got a warning for having not updated my registration sticker (it was March). I was deeply ashamed of myself (seriously).
I do my best to follow all laws, rules and regulations.

On the other hand:

I see my local DNR police almost daily on my river (I live water front). If they happen to be there when a violator does something they react.
In two years that has come out to exactly one time.

I've had no friends ever admit to getting a ticket.


As to #3, see above. If the harbor master is a local kid running the poop pump, I'd tell him/her to go away. I'd probably shred a 'harbor master' ticket in front of him.
Harbor masters are not police, at least not in my area.
I'd question his authority to say 'boo'. Just saying.
 
#7 ·
1- pulling a water skier on an inland lake where the lake gets to be about 100 yards wide. Officer gave me a ticket for being within 100 ft of other boats. My wife got one on the same lake on a wave runner
.
2- Every weekend 3 or more at inlaws lake. Its not as bad now they voted out the old police chief

3- We no longer boat at her parents lake. Don't need the trouble or extra "taxes". Great lakes are more fun than boating in a cirlce
 
#8 · (Edited)
Oh, this is a thread which has the potential for a lot of anger and resentment on both sides. I bet some have read it and decided not to "go there" by not responding at all. As I write I am wondering if I should, too.

I guess I'll continue by reminding myself of the context: this is a small New England seaport, not NYC Harbor where harbor security is generally on high alert; all harbormasters have a challenging job that can raise their blood pressure quite easily. I once interviewed for an Assistant Harbormaster position and immediately gained much respect for the fellow who held the top position. He was a young ex-cop with a very even demeanor. His description of dealing with several rowdy and disrepectful boaters who've had at least one too many on July 4th or Labor Day showed his judgement and diplomatic skill (it was around 25 years ago, before DUI enforcement on those waters); his description of potentially having to rescue a senior member of the community suffering a heart attack aboard a boat in the confused seas of a harbor's entrance at twilight showed how demanding things could get. That said ...

1. Never in 38 years.

2. I know of no one, but this isn't something many people would like to admit unless they were clearly mistreated or the harbor police have earned a reputation of being overzealous.

3. Harbors with known "strict enforcement" would likely be less attractive to me. I've met such officers and found their style abusive and offensive. The harbormaster you describe, above, seems to have a good understanding of the "serve and protect" credo and I think that community is lucky to have him. Like Tempest, "FWIW...."
 
#9 ·
1. Never got a ticket in nearly six decades of boating. Did get stopped a couple times in one day. DNR cops wanted to see if the three teenage girls on my boat that were wearing string bikinis resembling a couple Band-Aids and a cork were catching any fish. One of the girls was my 16-year-old daughter. She thought it was kinda' funny.

2. Don't know anyone that was ticketed - ever.

3. Never had a problem with harbormasters, even in Baltimore's Inner Harbor. Good harbormasters are hard to come by - count your lucky stars.

Gary :cool:
 
#11 ·
I work right next to the Atlantic City Coast Guard Station. I see them out on the water all the time stopping boaters.. but never for more than a couple of minutes.

The only time I have seen them "go after" somebody was when a cigarette type boat ran beneath the bridge at full speed instead of at no wake speed. He deserved whatever he got
 
#12 ·
I was formerly a Sheriff's Deputy on an inland lake in NYS. When I was hired the sheriff had a similar philosophy as your Harbor Master, work with the people and only issue tickets if you must. I rarely issued tickets, I reserved that for those who really deserved it. Mostly it worked out pretty well but occasionally you had a few bad apples. The Park Security took a different attitude and by watching them I found that a constant heavy hand lead to constantly needing to maintain it. This was many years ago, now they are regular cops who enforce the law. Not that they are bad guys but its not the same.

As far as the tactic... the advantage was we knew and had working relations a lot of local boaters. That helped considerably on the few occasions we needed information. For instance it was a big help during large lake oriented events with heavy boat traffic. I had people flag me down all the time to chat and give me information about disable boats or overloaded boats or some bozo on a jetski going to fast, etc..

The only times this tactic backfired was with friends. I was in my early 20's when I did this and so were my friends. A few times I had to put a heavy hand on their actions and they were not too keen to listen. Made for a rough situation. But those times were few and far between.

Were I in your shoes I would leave well enough alone. If he is doing a good job keeping the peace and the harbor runs smoothly, you have a good thing going.

Just my opinion.

Brad

EDIT: My lake is likely smaller than your harbor by a wide margin so maybe its apples to oranges? I dunno, for some reason I felt compelled to point that out.
 
#13 ·
Never ticketed.
Know one person ticketed for putting out a wake close to shore.

This is all a matter of degrees. If there are a lot of boats putting out big wakes in no wake zones, perhaps it's time to crack down. Same for drinking.
But if this is just revenue enhancement, the chamber of commerce will have something to say soon enough
 
#14 ·
1. Never got a 'ticket' by a harbormaster
2. Since the economic downturn, happens quite often in Annapolis Harbor and adjacent areas by MD marine police.
3. "I like your guy's attitude. With him there - I would visit, with ticket mad enforcers, there are lots of other places to go".

Why put your wallet at risk for small and entirely subjective transgressions of minor but usually costly infractions if there are 'safer' and 'friendlier' places to go? You apparently have a very good, respectful, and 'honest' harbormaster, which is quite valuable for your community - called good will and is usually reciprocated in kind.
 
#15 · (Edited)
If I knew that officials were handing out tickets & fines in a specific port, it would be a reason to avoid going there. I've sailed since 1973 without running afoul of any so far, in ports that have included Tortola, Cancun, Hamilton(Bermuda), NYC, Newport, Marblehead, Halifax, Kinsale, Dublin, Howth, Dunoon, Royan, Ouistréham, Arcachon, Hyères, and lots in between. If your officials are looking for a new revenue stream, tell them it's not going to be deep enough to float a boat in, and that they will be surprised at how fast it dries up (and takes any incidental spending from visitors along with it.) You're interested in boater safety, not in soaking boat owners for more money.
 
#16 ·
1. I have never been cited, I have been inspected by the Coast Guard, but passed.

2. I do not know anyone who has been cited, most of my boating is in Hawai'i and I believe they are pretty relaxed.

3. I would not like to visit a harbor with strictly enforced laws. I find the biggest danger in Harbors comes from riff raff hanging out, and not people going slightly too fast. I would rather take an annoying wake from a powerboat from time to time, than always look over my shoulder for 'police' treating my boat like it's a car "a driving atm"(sometimes)
 
#17 ·
I've never been ticketed, nor have I been aboard a vessel that has, in roughly 40 years on the water.

I've know countless Harbor Masters and even a few Marine Police units on coastal New England waters and each have had the same general approach that you've described for yours.

However, on an inland lake that I'm familiar with, there is a serious problem with kids speeding around and its over crowded already. Some residents want a boat/motor size restriction, others just want their spoiled kids to be able to do whatever they like. There have been a couple of deaths from accidents over the last ten years or so. The local police do actively ticket, as they're trying to send a message to the rich kid's parents. Probably necessary.

p.s. I do know someone who was ticketed in the Erie Canal system for pouring the coals in his powerboat, after a lock held him up for a long time. He knows he was wrong and deserved it.
 
#33 ·
Same, Same!

Our Police Chief is a nice guy, too.

I know the HMs, in both towns where I keep boats on moorings, by their first names. Good men! TCB. No hassles. The CG is present too and they have an issue requiring "blue lights" from time to time but rarely. Those events are often related to crimes or emergencies. I was stopped one day by the Coasties in very agitated condition. They were going through the motions and displaying weapons! Yikes! After about 2 minutes of their "investigation" a very similar power boat came into view from the same direction I had come. A brief "buzz" among them, a quick, "you are O.K." as I was handing over life vests for their inspection and they took off after the other boat. A legitimate case of mistaken boat identity. Drugs!

I have put my own notices on the yacht club bb regarding dangerous wakes from members with large power boats being irresponsible. Once even felt it necessary to confront one jerk in a public forum at the yc. "Summer people."

A low profile for our "keepers" is by far the best way to go. There is a high degree of mutual respect among boaters Downeast. We do not need another layer of authority feeling the need to exercise it.

Down
 
#20 ·
Never been cited, there has never been a reason

Just left St Solomons Island were we saw a dozon tickets being handed out with in an hour, (friday afternoon) but sure it was because of no life jackets on the smaller boats heading to the Tiki hut bar. Can you say stuped enough?

I would more then happy go were I know the enforcement was fair and if your harbor master has been at it for awhile and things a working out , no boating accidents or drownings. Why try to fix whats not broken?
 
#22 ·
In the Northport ,Centerport ,Huntington, Lloyd harbor area which in all reality is a pretty small area of perhaps 5 to 7 miles on the water

We have the most absurd marine police presence outside of a war zone

1.Eatons Neck CG station WHICH MAKES SENSE and one would think this could cover things pretty well

2.Northport harbor master/police/fireboat

3.Centerport harbor master/police

4.Ashroken harbor master/police It a different word for Eaton's neck

5. Lloyd Harbor harbor master/police

6. Huntington harbor harbor master/police

7. Suffolk county marine police which operate out of Huntington harbor

Now in terms of help and rescue the Suffolk county marine police have a fabulous record and the CG is pretty dam good :)

After that ever weekend inside a fairly small body of water all these departments patrol ALL the time

The only real action I see is the small speed trap at the tip of sand city

It never seems to control the excessive wakes by large powerboats inside the harbor were the speed limit is 40 MPH but common sense would call your wake excessive when you stuff the bow of my 29' boat
 
#24 ·
From your description, I think your harbormaster is doing his job correctly.

I've never been stopped and I think that's probably true of most sailboaters.

The only people I know who have been stopped are operating small powerboats, too fast, throwing wakes and too close to other boats.

I haven't experienced a bad harbormaster anywhere so I cannot imagine not going some place because of a story like that.... If we avoid a harbor it's because it lacks what we need that particular night (fuel, water, groceries, or enough room to anchor/moor/tie up). That said, we did leave an anchorage on the 4th of July one year after a big clorox bottle mega yacht unloaded a pile of jet ski's and the charter/owner put their kids on them and let them play water world.


If your harbormaster is not ticketing the real bad actors that are causing damage with wakes, or danger to swimmers...stuff like that..that's one thing...but writing tickets should not be a measure of quality, the public safety and fair access for all...that's the goal.
 
#25 ·
I agree with most here...

The "officials" that criticize the harbormaster need to think about the reason for a harbormaster. He is there for safety and not a revenue source.
 
#26 ·
No Tickets.
Boarded a few times in Mexico and Australia.
Most officials seems most interested in safety and education.
Good source of local info as well.
Think your community has a jewel.
Give him a raise and tenure.
Local governments need more men like your harbor master.
 
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