SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Production Boats and the Limits
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
2 Weeks Ago 05:10 PM
outbound Climbed all over Chris 's new boat. Two masts. Two jibs like a staysail schooner. Masts are foils and self fleather if you want no thrust from them. They sailed the boat from chile to Annapolis. That's blue water cruising by anyone's definition.
If I wasn't so in love with my outbound it would be on my short list.
2 Weeks Ago 02:16 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
What about "decent" production Cats? We have read a lot on production boats hereby, with - by far - main focus on monohulls. How about production Cats?! Any thoughts you guys?!

//Aeon (Sail4U.net)
I don't see any reason they are generally not suitable to off-shore cruising. Some of the newest ones, like the Alphas, obviously need some breaking in. But what truly separates the "bluewater cats" from the "production cats" in terms of design and build?
2 Weeks Ago 12:54 PM
Aeon
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Chris White's boats may be quite into performance and even hardened enough but I am also siding with hellsop on the ergonomics and thus FP's and Lagoon's designs seem more into my taste too! (...not to mention my wife! )

What about "decent" production Cats? We have read a lot on production boats hereby, with - by far - main focus on monohulls. How about production Cats?! Any thoughts you guys?!

//Aeon (Sail4U.net)
2 Weeks Ago 12:35 PM
hellsop
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
My choice would be Chris White's Atlantic 42

And one for sale: Swiftsure Yachts (Seattle, WA)
They're quite hardy, and certainly discourage overloading, which is easy to do on a cat. I'm not a fan of the forward cockpit, though, and don't really see the need for two heads.

Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40 is more my style, with more space and airiness in the bridgedeck salon and having the galley up on the bridgedeck out of the hulls. Shoal keels instead of daggerboards is mildly preferable too. It's one less thing to get stuck or fix. That the Lavezzi is also $100,000 cheaper typically doesn't hurt much either.

But if I'm honest with myself, I'll probably only ever be able to afford a Gemini.
2 Weeks Ago 06:08 PM
mitiempo
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

My choice would be Chris White's Atlantic 42



Atlantic 42 Catamaran by Chris White Designs High Performance Comfortable Sailboat

And one for sale: Swiftsure Yachts (Seattle, WA)
2 Weeks Ago 05:45 PM
Aeon
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsop
I suppose that it sort of does all end up coming around to pricing isthat if you could get nice cats for $30k anywhere then the amount of actual knowledge of them would be higher, and more people to talk about them.
I guess so, but doesn't look like there will be any $30K cats around any time soon! ...at least not blue water ones! (for us to be in the spirit of the thread's "deep blue" vibe!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsop
Cats use that to mitigate some of the tremendous strain the rigging gets because cats don't heel over and spill wind in gusty conditions. And the thing you really don't want to do in a cat is get knocked down, because you're not coming back up without help. So smart cat skippers reef early, and reef often. If you're thinking "Wind's picking up. Do I want to reef this?" then the answer is "Yes, and put in two."
Oh, yes! Better safe than sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsop
Cats are also light (even loaded - no ballast) and shallow, so heaving to doesn't work as well for them; the difference between running on bare poles and heaving to isn't nearly as much as it it is with a monohull, so if there's a way out of danger on a running reach instead of trying to stay put, a cat should strongly consider it.
An interesting point to which I come across for the first time, to be honest. Until this very point I was considering heaving to as the Holy Grail of weather emergencies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsop
Which means a Jordan drogue is an appealing option over a chute sea anchor because 2-3 knots means being able to keep steering and 1 might not.
The Jordan drogue had entered my equipment list since some time ago

So, less Cat experience around?! Let me try however to ask you and the community for a Live Aboard Blue Water Cat! Opinions & Arguments please?!

//Aeon (Sail4U.net)
2 Weeks Ago 01:13 PM
hellsop
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
...wow, finally done! That was the longest thread I have read - ever! Being a - pretty busy - office rat, it took me a few weeks to go through these 1000+ posts of wisdom! Pretty insightful, for which a thank you note to all participants is in order for them sharing their experiences, knowledge and wisdom (with varying percentages on these three!)
If you read all that, you're a braver soul than I. There was a lot of skimming on my end...

Quote:
To the thread's point now, what about CATS? I have barely noticed a few mentioning them and that only lightly. Why is that? Is it simply because of pricing issues?
They're rarer, they are expensive so fewer people have them. They're different to sail and have different flaws, and unless someone's at least spent a lot of time reading about them, someone talking about them is usually more bilge water than fact. Clever folks don't speak much to what they don't actually know, and experience speaks louder than study (because study ends up being a matter of sorting out 30% fact from 70% bilge.) I suppose that it sort of does all end up coming around to pricing issues, in that if you could get nice cats for $30k anywhere then the amount of actual knowledge of them would be higher, and more people to talk about them.

Quote:
I did enjoyed and learned quite much on the last part regarding the rigging! Interesting indeed! Do these writings apply equally to CATS?
Rigging questions mostly do. With some differences attributable to where you can attach things on catamarans. Cats have corners The bows and sterns are offset 6-10 feet from the centerline. Cats use that to mitigate some of the tremendous strain the rigging gets because cats don't heel over and spill wind in gusty conditions. And the thing you really don't want to do in a cat is get knocked down, because you're not coming back up without help. So smart cat skippers reef early, and reef often. If you're thinking "Wind's picking up. Do I want to reef this?" then the answer is "Yes, and put in two." You'll still probably be getting 6 knots, so who cares that you're not using maximum sail? Cats are also light (even loaded - no ballast) and shallow, so heaving to doesn't work as well for them; the difference between running on bare poles and heaving to isn't nearly as much as it it is with a monohull, so if there's a way out of danger on a running reach instead of trying to stay put, a cat should strongly consider it. Which means a Jordan drogue is an appealing option over a chute sea anchor because 2-3 knots means being able to keep steering and 1 might not. And when things go completely wrong and there's water in everything, what needs to happen to cope is different. Many (I'd say "most" but I'm not sure of this and designers don't talk about it much) are neutrally buoyant with the hulls flooded, the cockpit knee-deep, and the side decks awash. They won't actually sink; again because they don't have three tons of ballast in a keel. So worst case plans typically revolve around "how do I stay with the boat?" rather than "how do I make it after my boat sinks?"
2 Weeks Ago 03:30 AM
Aeon
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

...wow, finally done! That was the longest thread I have read - ever! Being a - pretty busy - office rat, it took me a few weeks to go through these 1000+ posts of wisdom! Pretty insightful, for which a thank you note to all participants is in order for them sharing their experiences, knowledge and wisdom (with varying percentages on these three!)

To the thread's point now, what about CATS? I have barely noticed a few mentioning them and that only lightly. Why is that? Is it simply because of pricing issues?

I did enjoyed and learned quite much on the last part regarding the rigging! Interesting indeed! Do these writings apply equally to CATS?

//Aeon (Sail4U.net)
11-03-2014 01:40 PM
goboatingnow
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

My experience is that most reasonably made production boats today are more robust then their crews, after that what else really matters.
11-03-2014 01:03 PM
blt2ski
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Ralph,

A LOT of folks actually store a spin/whisker pole on the mast. So if that is the only place you could store one, do so, makes going down wind a lot easier if you can pole out a jib and main and go down wind this way at times.

You have not said what size your jib(s) are, but if smaller than say a 135 or so, then a J length spin pole IMHO is a better option than a whisker pole. As they are lighter, one zie only tho, a bad part, but lighter and easier to use with smaller headsails. If you have say two or three from a 155 on down, then a whisker pole helps, as I find a pole that is 80% of the LP is the best size to get max use of a winged out head sail. A 155 in most cases like something in the 130-150% of the J length for best wind catching.

Marty
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.