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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > herSailNet > Is Sailing Sexist?
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Thread: Is Sailing Sexist? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
2 Weeks Ago 11:27 AM
titustiger27
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
has anyone checked out the latest issue of good old boat? there is a story, titled "cruising memories generation to generation", about family carrying on the tradition of sailing that really shows just how sexist sailing really is.
Just went to the site, if you fill out a form you can get a review copy

Good Old Boat - Welcome to Good Old Boat Magazine

the copy isn't this issue, but it is a way to consider the magazine
2 Weeks Ago 10:55 AM
captain jack
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

has anyone checked out the latest issue of good old boat? there is a story, titled "cruising memories generation to generation", about family carrying on the tradition of sailing that really shows just how sexist sailing really is.
09-01-2014 07:52 PM
WindchaserPY23
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Having just come back from a long weekend cruise on the high seas (Lake Superior), I can say only that while the boat was always a dream of mine, my wife fell in love with cruising and we work as a well oiled team. Only the lack of experience gives me the edge on sailing skills but she is a quick learner.
If more women got involved earlier in sailing then the ownership ratio could be more even. A quick mental survey of the people we've run into cruising and at the marina does have more men buying boats but most couples in the boomer class tend to have both referring to the vessel as "our" boat.

Capt'n Ed
S/V Talisman
08-18-2014 07:48 AM
TomMaine
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
i think this demonstrates a point about this thread. i think that everyone is totaly focused on the title but, i seriously have my doubts that very many actually read the review of the book linked to in the original post.

the writer of the review also made this big over blown issue about the title. but, their review of the actual book tells a different story as can be seen in this quote from the review:

"That breezy writing style is subversive- without directly spelling it out, First Mate Smith makes it clear who really runs a boat... which maybe why a First Mate is often more correctly known as The Admiral

If you've just bought a boat or are considering a boat purchase, this is a good place for new boaters of both sexes to start.

Just get past the cover."

i highlighted one section of the review because it seems to totally negate any sexism some people might read in the title. in fact, i might go a bit farther and say that that statement shows that THE review was actually a little sexist...against men.

on an ironic point, the review, which was a big rant about sexism, pointed out calling the woman 'the admiral' as a positive thing when some posters, here, tried to say it was a sexist name that was really poking fun at women. i guess the folks out looking to find isms everywhere forgot to compair notes about what constitutes an ism.

it sould also be noted that a woman, not a man, is the author of the book. also, it's subtitle indicates it as a book intended for, or at least aimed at, women.

so many posters have aimed their guns at how sexist male sailors are but, this isn't a book written by a man. in fact, i can't think of one sailing book that is written by a man (that i have ever seen) that is sexist in title or content, in any way...and i have a lot of old sailing books. when i first taught myself to sail (through reading books...no internet...and putting what i read into practice), i bought used books because of cost and a lot of them were written in the 60s and 70s. i was given one new book as a gift.

so, even back then, male sailors were not writing sexist sailing books. it took a woman to write the book (with a supposedly sexist title) that started this entire thread off.

it should be noted, if you read the review you will discover that it's author has a huge case of chip on shoulder. the first half of the review is a rant at how sexist sailing is; all of boating actually. the title really set the author of the review off... only to end up giving it a very good and positive review because, not only was there nothing sexist about the book but, it was a good book.

the trouble with walking around with a chip on your shoulder is that you take offense at just about everything even if there is nothing offensive intended or implied.
Jack, no offense but I only have time to skim the long posts. I get the jist though, that sexism doesn't exist for you. I'm ok with that.
08-18-2014 07:41 AM
TomMaine
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I don't know any woman that don't like pizza. I know many that adore shoes beyond my comprehension. I don't insist on either.

What does this have to do with women sailors?

I would bet they find the above scenario, at least, annoying?
I haven't seen anyone in this thread with a chip on their shoulder.

The good news is, for sexism in general, for me it shows the downturn is there in a generational sense.

Like equal pay for equal work, sexism is still a part of society(documented), but, gender disparity is on it's way out.
08-17-2014 10:35 PM
captain jack
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
You don't have to go beyond the book title in the original question. "first mate"=woman. Dated, stereotypical.
i think this demonstrates a point about this thread. i think that everyone is totaly focused on the title but, i seriously have my doubts that very many actually read the review of the book linked to in the original post.

the writer of the review also made this big over blown issue about the title. but, their review of the actual book tells a different story as can be seen in this quote from the review:

"That breezy writing style is subversive- without directly spelling it out, First Mate Smith makes it clear who really runs a boat... which maybe why a First Mate is often more correctly known as The Admiral

If you've just bought a boat or are considering a boat purchase, this is a good place for new boaters of both sexes to start.

Just get past the cover."

i highlighted one section of the review because it seems to totally negate any sexism some people might read in the title. in fact, i might go a bit farther and say that that statement shows that THE review was actually a little sexist...against men.

on an ironic point, the review, which was a big rant about sexism, pointed out calling the woman 'the admiral' as a positive thing when some posters, here, tried to say it was a sexist name that was really poking fun at women. i guess the folks out looking to find isms everywhere forgot to compair notes about what constitutes an ism.

it sould also be noted that a woman, not a man, is the author of the book. also, it's subtitle indicates it as a book intended for, or at least aimed at, women.

so many posters have aimed their guns at how sexist male sailors are but, this isn't a book written by a man. in fact, i can't think of one sailing book that is written by a man (that i have ever seen) that is sexist in title or content, in any way...and i have a lot of old sailing books. when i first taught myself to sail (through reading books...no internet...and putting what i read into practice), i bought used books because of cost and a lot of them were written in the 60s and 70s. i was given one new book as a gift.

so, even back then, male sailors were not writing sexist sailing books. it took a woman to write the book (with a supposedly sexist title) that started this entire thread off.

it should be noted, if you read the review you will discover that it's author has a huge case of chip on shoulder. the first half of the review is a rant at how sexist sailing is; all of boating actually. the title really set the author of the review off... only to end up giving it a very good and positive review because, not only was there nothing sexist about the book but, it was a good book.

the trouble with walking around with a chip on your shoulder is that you take offense at just about everything even if there is nothing offensive intended or implied.
08-17-2014 08:18 PM
Minnewaska
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

I don't know any woman that don't like pizza. I know many that adore shoes beyond my comprehension. I don't insist on either.

What does this have to do with women sailors?

I have faith in humanity, as is I just finished a three week cruise and didn't come upon any female sailors that had a chip on their shoulder anything like that of this thread. Everyone was happy.
08-17-2014 04:42 PM
TomMaine
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Those of you who say you don't "see" sexism? Here's something for you:

[/url]
I enjoyed this one; At a renovation project in a Manhattan high rise, the well to do client asked the project manager," Can we get pizza delivered on friday's, for all the guys?" A generous offer for the more than 30 on site construction people.

Then the client notices the project managers assistant is a young female. "Oh, girls don't like pizza!", he says with a smile. Thinking quickly, he adds, "Can we have shoes delivered to the girls?"

My daughter and I(she is the project managers assistant) had quite a laugh(and lots of groans!), as she told me this last week. She likes the client and went last friday for the pizza(she loves pizza).

I'm sure the client doesn't see sexism around him.
08-16-2014 09:07 PM
captain jack
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Those of you who say you don't "see" sexism? Here's something for you:

Next Time Someone Says Women Aren't Victims Of Harassment, Show Them This.

in response, that is an editorial cartoon. it is an expression of opinion and not actualy proof of anything. i could just as easily draw a cartoon that says the exact opposite.

however, to address some of the points the cartoon brought up:

----abortion laws are not sexist in nature. they are a violation of people's religious freedoms and are based on christianity. rather than being sexist, they are just another example of how christians have been pushing their religion on everyone else for centuries.

----it truly is hypocritical for someone to dress in sexually provocative ways and expect to not be viewed in sexual ways. if you don't want me to look at your boobs( a very normal human reaction that has been a key element in making sure all sexual species reproduce), don't flash tnem at me. if i were to walk around with my equipment hanging out, i would be thought an idiot if i got offended at women looking at it. seriously. i guess all the male strippers should protest all the sexist women staring and wolf calling and shouting at them. just terribly sexist behavior.

---really? the cartoon makes it look as if women are just being groped 24/7 and having obscenities yelled at them from all sides constantly. you think that might be an exageration? i've had chicks squeeze my butt ( and even one run her hands 'accidentally' over my crotch) and i think every guy gets whistled at, flirted with, or had sexual comments made to them. i've dated some really hot chicks, over the years and they never complained of anything nearly like that cartoon depicts.

-----and, as far as how men speak of women amongst themselves:

A) as long as they aren't saying it to you, it's not your business what they say or think and

B) women do the same thing...often very vocally and openly. i can't tell you how many times i have heard women talking amongst themselves, in public, loudly and openly in a way that was treating men as sex objects. happens all the time. it happens at work. it happens at bars. i hear it after movies containing actors that women call 'studs'...a sexist term that views men in only a sexual manner. i can see it, now: "how terrilble. i can't stand it anymore. you only see me as big arms and a warshboard stomach. stop checking out my crotch ( i have had that happen a lot, too). my eyes are up here, lady!" no i can't. what guy would actuallty get upset that a woman checks him out or finds him sexy?

-----the reason a guy apologizes to another guy for hitting on his girlfriend or wife and not the woman has nothing to do with men viewing women as property. there is nothing wrong with men or women trying to get dates with people. that is natural and it's how relationships start and species continue. why would a guy apologize to a woman for that? however, if you realize you have been hitting on a woman that has a partner already, you apologize to him because you were trying to get involved with the person he is in a relationsip with. can you actually tell me that, if your woman friend were to realize she had been hitting on your boyfriend/husband, she would not apologize to you for the transgeression?

----as far as a guy being whipped; a guy who can't stand up and be himself, totally dominated by his girlfriend, is being submissive and weak. no one is saying a guy has to dominate. not at all. but, some guys just get bullied by their girlfriend/wife. they aren't man enough to be respected as a person by their partner. so, you say they sare whipped because they act weak and timid like a whipped dog. it's not sexist agsainst women at all. if anything, it's sexist against men because we expect strength, confidence, and courage from men and view them as less than a man if they act weak, timid, and cowardly.

---and, finally, i don't know about any of the other guys on here, but i claimed to be taken, once, to get a very unattractive woman to stop hounding me. i was definately not interested and she wouldn't take the hint and, rather than be mean and say 'i find you unattractive and sexually repulsive', it was just easier to say i had a girlfriend. that doesn't always work on women, though. a lot of my past girlfriends' friends have hit on my while i was with their friend. guys, though, usually respect other guys enough to back off. (in the pursuit of total honesty, i wil admit having stolen or 'borrowed' a number of other guy's girlfriends, in the past, but none that were attached to any of my friends. i never said i was a saint)

anyhow, that cartoon isn't so much evidence as it is propoganda in support of an opinion.

it's also shows just how meaningless the words 'sexism' and 'sexual harrassment' really have become. basically, if a guy you are not interested in compliments you or hits on (or even just asks you out) you it's sexual harrassment and he is sexist. but, if a guy you are interested in does those things, it's just fine. it really shows how one sided the whole thing is. it's ok for women to treat men as sex objects (in fact, it's empowering to women. they cheer each other for it) but it's wrong to do so. how can those words have any real meaning if you can apply them in any way that suits you or if they apply to only one gender? they can't.

and, am i saying there aren't guys who are offensive or guys that have a lesser opiniojn of women? no. i'm not. there are buttholes in every crowd. however, there are a lot of women who act and think in the same ways as those guys. in fact, it's more common and totally socially accepted for women to do those things.
08-16-2014 08:14 PM
captain jack
Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
You don't have to go beyond the book title in the original question. "first mate"=woman. Dated, stereotypical.

Sexism isn't an option in any part of our culture. Google sexism in the USA or similar. It's just there.

You could be the least sexist male in the world, and sexism is still here.

In the sailing world, I think we've done a better job toward eliminating sexism than say, the work place in the US(we're not equal in $/work
most statistics quoting male/female income inequality do not do anything but quote the averages without regard to the types of jobs. women tend to go into careers and train for careers that make less money. also, there is time missing for work, to have or tend to children, which figures into yearly incomes and that is also not factored in. women making tons less than men in the same jobs is largely a thing of the past ( a point my girlfriend has made, herself, a few times in discussions about this thread)

but you are right, things are changing. more men do blue collar work than women. blue collar jobs used to be the big money jobs. now, white collar is where the money is and blue collar is not. secretaries and women doing data entry in the office make more than the men working and sweating their butts off doing the physical production. not sure i see that as an improvement, though. at least, not if you ask the guys trying to raise families on bue collar wages.


Quote:
but we're improving) or many third world countries where sexism atrocities, are rule.

I'm sexist but I've become less so as I age. I'm also a white male in the US and have not been a victim of sexism.

No, there was one time. A girl I dated(once) told me in all seriousness, "All men are a**holes..."

Silly, but a lot of sexism is just silly, and dumb.

that's the point exactly. women are very sexist. i have been wolf whistled at, hit on, flirted with...all by women i did not approach. if i was a woman, i'd call that sexual harrassment. maybe you don't have that kind of experience with women. sorry about your bad luck.


anyhow, i'm a guy so i am flattered by the attention. which is a logical response, in my opinion. but, you bring up an even more common type of female sexism against men. degredation. in fact, it's so common, and accepted, you actually don't seem to realize how much you are exposed to it. it's in their stand up routines. it's in tv ads and sitcoms and movies. women do it, in person, very frequently. but no one calls them on it. i guess it's only sexist if men do it. women are exempt.
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