I'm maybe reading too much into Mills' and Barclays' quotes - but I have little doubt that much of the risk they were talking about was financial as much as danger. At US$10M+ a pop, for a new, unproven design that you know is going to need to be tested to breakage, that's a very tall order. Much easier to wait it out and see what happens.I've flown aircraft to runways I can't see.
I've ridden my motorcycle across half the countries in Europe and the Alps.
I've been an instructor for deep wreck and black water rescue diving.
I've sailed offshore in severe storms and zero viz.
I know risk and my spirit is just fine. It's not about eliminating risk, it's about continually getting better at managing it and reducing incidents. I understand there are professional teams that refused to compete in this AC because they thought this boat was too risky and another currently considering pulling out. Even the X-games have begun to eliminate some events, as they are too risky, despite the fact that there is no shortage in willing competitors.
I take people for their word, until they prove otherwise.Sorry - I meant Mills and Bertelli (not Barclay). I still stand by the comment though. They talk about safety - they think about cost. I have little doubt about that.
Could be the difference. I mostly deal with people that sail or are watermen/women, not yachties.In the world of yacht racing - I never take anyone at his word. Heh-heh.
I think this is a critical issue and likely a reason why this debate will rage on for years. Whoever wins the cup next may likely change the boats to water ballasted sharpies. In just a few years teams will have to fund R&D, test and train crews on what I am sure will be the fastest sharpie to ever touch its keel to water. These teams do not have the luxury of decades to refine their designs and technologies to ensure all the air-bags and bumpers are adequate enough to keep the lawyers at bay. You take the current technologies and push them as far as you can in the time allotted and then hold on to your ass and compete.The comparison to Nascar is not really accurate. As Nascar as a sport has been evolving for decades. America's Cup changes venue and boat parameters every 3 years. These drag racing cats have been being developed for a few years. The drag racing cats 3 years from now there will be different parameters and different boats.
This is a good point. However, I would think they are in a jam between the lesser of two evils now. Going forward, I completely agree......Bottom line- if you offer an "out" due to weather- you will see boats that can't handle weather......
Sorry, you'll just have to pardon my abysmal reading comprehension skills, I suppose...Putting words in my mouth then, are you? Not to strong with conjugation, perhaps? I doubt many or any people enjoyed seeing a guy drown either. Maybe re-read what you quoted- and recognize that I was offering potential future discussion- rather than discussing an event that had already transpired. In fact it was this event in the past which would generate this future discussion.
Seems to me, LATITUDE 38 strikes the right note, here (bolded portion mine):Originally Posted by c. breeze
I would also think that all those griping about it being nothing more than an ego stroke for billionaires would enjoy seeing Ellison and company, as well as the other teams, told- "hey- you got the boat you wanted in the venue you wanted- now deal with it"
No easy solutions, with an event of this magnitude, and this much money involved... Allow me to make one more analogy to motor racing, the sport I know best...While the edgy, ultra-high-speed nature of AC72 racing was meant to spur Cup enthusiasm from both sailors and non-sailors, Thursday's accident has caused some Cup-watchers to claim that technical innovations of this new generation of boats are not yet sufficiently tested and refined to be safe, especially in brisk SF Bay conditions.
No doubt a wide range of opinions and concerns will be expressed tomorrow when representatives from all four AC teams (Oracle Team USA, Artemis Racing, Luna Rossa Challenge and Emirates Team New Zealand) will sit down together for a earnest discussion of the mishap and its consequences. "The meeting with the teams is a crucial next step," Murray said. "We need to establish an open flow of information to ensure this review meets its goals of fact-finding and putting us in a position to recommend changes, if necessary." We expect this will be a closed-door session, and we suspect some strong opinions will be voiced about the viability of AC72s for Cup racing in typical Bay conditions, as there have been critical grumblings - especially from the New Zealanders - for many months. (Naturally, we would love to be a fly on the wall of those sessions.)
As exciting as AC72s are to watch, in light of Simpson's death we, too, have to wonder if research and development of this new class of boats isn't still too much in the experimental phase to be ready for competition before a world-wide audience just 51 days from now. Reacting to Thursday's tragedy, the German team has dropped out of September's Red Bull Youth America's Cup (although those races will be aboard seemingly more stable AC45s.) "The death of one sailor is reason enough," said team founder Oliver Schwall. "We also feel that our decision has to send an important message after this disaster. It's time (for event organizers) to start thinking."
As we mourn the loss of a great athlete, we also feel empathy for Barkley and Murray as, ultimately, the buck stops with them - we certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now. Although some critics are vociferously calling for the cancellation or postponement of the Cup, major TV and promotional contracts have been signed, infrastructure is in place, and probably close to a half-billion dollars has been spent by the teams and other so-called stake-holders.
Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
I suspect it was my comment, but I haven't gone back to find it either. I did reference the abandonment of safety with respect to designing a new boat that increased risk, unlike every other sport that fights to decrease it. The fact that they are trying to mitigate that increase with PPE would not change my point. The net is still an increase. I believe they could have amped up performance and not increased risk to the point that anyone was going to have any significant risk of death.....I fail to see how an improved last line I defense represents an "abandonment of safety considerations" or whatever the the exact quote was.
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Agree. I used to sail Pridle 16 across the Ches Bay. Once I was midway across from Annapolis and single hand with full sail and tried to tack. She would not go with the 25 knot southerly and 5 foot wind swell. Just could not get her through the winds eye. I really wanted to tack as there was a huge ship headed up the bay and I was getting ready to cross the shipping channel. I did not want to jibe as I knew for sure I would capsize the boat when the wind caught. I crossed the bow of the ship and headed to the calm of the western shore where I could tack and sailed back to annapois Put the Prindle away and got my windsurfer. I had a few pitch poles with the P16. Never wanted a P18 as I was afraid of getting impalled on the single spreader that mast had.People are shocked they can't jibe etc- why? It's essentially brand new. This has as much in common with moth as it does a laser- not a lot.
The pitch-pole thing has been and issue on cats since the Hobie 14' because it has such small holes it was very easy to bury one But you did Not get pitched all that far
Now your pretty much getting pitch-poled from a if you cant hold on or its a fatal height
But why be on the fence? Bad **** can happen when any boat gets upside down. There was a 14 yo girl killed last year in Annapolis when her 420(or Laser or whatever) turtled while racing or practicing to race. Nobody thinks racing 420's(or lasers or whatever) is too dangerous.FWIW, The Americas Cup Organisers just released a statement that the games will go on:
America
Personally I'm on the fence on theses monsters, but looking forward to seeing them in 2 weeks while in SF.
Technically, they have a choice. Practically, how do they turn down being crew on an AC boat? The opportunity may never come again. Damn the torpedoes.To say that someone doesn't have a choice has to be an incredibly inaccurate statement. We all have choices to make and we make them freely every day, regardless of our profession.
Every athlete paid to compete in a spectator sport is there for our amusement. Are you saying that is bad?
Great point. I actually think this is Ellison's mission - to push this event to a completely new place. He is, without doubt, pioneering the AC. I say good on him.You make a good point. However what if this wasn't for sport? What if was a project to create a new breed of sailing craft and these men & women were pioneers. We would owe them nothing. Does that change because we call it a race and watch it on tv?
Hmmm, I don't think so... Who would pay the bills?If there weren't any cameras and there wasn't any prestige- these guys would be out there doing this.
And the Tour de France is a very small segment of what bike riders are aboutAgree with Jon on this one. We've watched AC in light air off S.D. and heavy air more then once. These boats are fascinating but a distortion - a very small segment- of what sailing is about. It has become a ninch race. Much like the boarders and planers racing in ditches to get flat water while they go for speed records. Like the difference between the salt flats and general road racing. This is not to take away from the technology, skill and courage of this endeavor but it makes for high light films not not engagement for the general public.