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Another America�s Cup entry destroyed

38K views 386 replies 55 participants last post by  shadowraiths 
#1 ·
#172 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I'm trying to think of another sport where some major teams and/or high profile professionals are saying their event or sport has become too dangerous. That's distinct from someone who may think its time to reduce danger they've been accepting all along. This is the case of professionals in the sport saying this new evolution has gone too far too fast, without sufficient engineering around safety.

The discussion has never been about whether there should be any danger, but some continually try to paint the other safer point of view into that corner. It's about whether they have gone beyond the cutting edge, into the bleeding edge.

On another point, this is the cache resume race of a lifetime. No other matches it, IMO. Not every crew member will have multiple shots at it. I would be curious how many crew do repeat. Maybe that's changing, now that they're paid. The few I've met over the years only got in one race. I may try to track one down and see what he thinks of this new format and the risks his younger colleagues are taking.
 
#176 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I'm trying to think of another sport where some major teams and/or high profile professionals are saying their event or sport has become too dangerous. That's distinct from someone who may think its time to reduce danger they've been accepting all along. This is the case of professionals in the sport saying this new evolution has gone too far too fast, without sufficient engineering around safety.

g.
Football has a major lawsuit concerning concussions I believe
 
#174 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

That trip is totally mind blowing. The mental fortitude it required not too mention plenty of extremely "technical" sailing. A stunner for sure.
And I appreciate that sentiment of hoping the AC guys make it too- but the fatalism... It's just overplayed. I know that you as well as all of us are going to be pretty giddy and bubbly for a little while if this race does come off without another catastrophe. But it will still all be tainted, because a guy died. Bu the problem is- it'll be more than that- it'll be "a guy died- and there were rich guys imcolved" and all the connotations that come with it.

People can hate Larry Ellison because he's spent millions developing a toy, while praising Matt Rutherford for raising money for a charity- but it just starts to sound like a social agenda more than anything at that point- especially if they were a naysayer until Matt was successful. But when you keep it at the sailing level- there's not a lot of difference- Matt was going to go if it didn't raise 6 dollars- Larry's gonna go if it costs 50 million. The commitment to the challenge is there regardless. Those two guys were going to find or make a way for that trip they were on because they had to.
 
#179 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

People can hate Larry Ellison because he's spent millions developing a toy, while praising Matt Rutherford for raising money for a charity- but it just starts to sound like a social agenda more than anything at that point- especially if they were a naysayer until Matt was successful. But when you keep it at the sailing level- there's not a lot of difference- Matt was going to go if it didn't raise 6 dollars- Larry's gonna go if it costs 50 million. The commitment to the challenge is there regardless. Those two guys were going to find or make a way for that trip they were on because they had to.
For the record, I don't "hate" Larry Ellison...

While he does not appear to be a particularly nice man, I certainly respect the remarkable success he has achieved in his life, both in business, and sailing... My primary gripe with him, as with many other American yacht owners of vast wealth, is that he can't be bothered to fly the Stars & Stripes from the stern of his private cruise ship...

I do find it amusing, however, that a man of such impressive accomplishment and station in life, might still have some 'Mine's Bigger' issues to deal with... (grin)

Reported to have originally cost of more than $290 million, rumour has it that Rising Sun's length was extended by some 18m during construction (her project name was LE120, rather indicating an original length of 120m) to ensure she was larger than the 126.2m Octopus belonging to Microsoft's co-founder, Paul Allen.

Top 100 largest Super Yachts and Luxury Yachts in the world - Boat International
 
#181 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

If the AC 72's continue to have accidents and people continued to die, how long would the race sailing community allow this format to continue, with no boat engineering or operations changes? Is one too many, or is it many more?
 
#182 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

If the AC 72's continue to have accidents and people continued to die, how long would the race sailing community allow this format to continue, with no boat engineering or operations changes? Is one too many, or is it many more?
There will be a next iteration to the format at the next AC. That's what happens every time.
 
#186 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

With all the chase boats around on a near shore confined course, I don't think the AC had any significant risk of death at all, until the wing hit the scene. Then, rather than engineer the safest way to use it, they amp it up to 72 feet. Woohoooo. Wait, what happened?
 
#189 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I'll say this.
I have 100% respect and admiration for all the crew sailing those AC72's. I cannot imagine sailing in 30 knots of wind with a 130 foot fixed sail to deal with. I scare myself at times sailing in 30 knots with a double reefed main and reefed jib on my mono.
May God be with them.
 
#191 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I'll say this.
I have 100% respect and admiration for all the crew sailing those AC72's. I cannot imagine sailing in 30 knots of wind with a 130 foot fixed sail to deal with. I scare myself at times sailing in 30 knots with a double reefed main and reefed jib on my mono.
May God be with them.
Casey, you are not a top professional sail racer. I did not race in sailboats but I raced in motorcycles and I was not even a professional but if a less experienced motorcycle rider (without a lot of race experience) tried to do some things I used to do he would crash with great danger to his life. If I tried to do some of the things professional top riders, sometimes in the same race, were doing it was me that would crash with great risk to my own life.

It is normal that you or me would not be able to race or even sail a Ac72 without endanger ourselves and others.

Regards

Paulo
 
#193 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

So should we have never launched another the Space Shuttle after Challenger? Should we stop flying in airplanes because 'some have crashed'? I can understand where people are trying to apply logic to an event like this, since, sadly a life was lost; but let's not go overboard. The boat suffered some sort of structural failure; or they pitch-poled, we don't know which yet. All catamarans are subject to a pitch pole, and all racing sailboats are subject to the potential for a structural failure (such as keels falling off and hulls failing due to oil-canning). I'm not saying that mistakes may not have been made, let's find out what they were before everyone starts calling it a NASCAR pile-up attraction.

On a side note, there are fatal accidents on SF Bay during the summer several times per month. Lots of pleasure boats have some sort of failure or another; and there are also the people who go out on kiteboards and can't get back in or just drown. Is anybody putting limits on doing the high risk activity? No; the USCG just goes out to recover them or try and help boats in distress. The local news has stopped reporting on most of these accidents since there are just too frequent.

If you have not witnessed one of the AC72 boats sailing at 40+ kts with both hulls out of the water; you really don't know how amazing these sailboats are, and the skill required to sail them. You can watch it on Youtube but it still does not give the same impression as seeing it with your own eyes. We've watched Oracle 17 sail past us on three occasions and it was amazing to see each time.

The America's Cup (among others) is a race that has always encouraged pushing the envelope of sailboat designs; and has benefited us all by development of those innovations. To say that it should be a one design race or confined to a certain type of boat is a misunderstanding of the history of the event. It's always been about who can build the fastest boat (to a set of design criteria) and sail with the best crews; regardless of cost. Recent rules regarding cost limitations were agreed upon in this AC. Ellison could have spent way more than he is on the current boats (just look back to the last AC; that boat cost over 300M)

Before the cats were sailing everyone was complaining about how slow and fragile the monohulls were; and that they could not be raced in over 12 kts of wind. Now everyone is complaining about the speed and safety of the cats. What do you guys expect? Artemis did not design their first 72' boat to be foiling; so they were in the process of making/testing design changes to help get them up to speed with Oracle 1. In their first practice race Oracle just sailed away from Artemis; so changes were required. I don't know if they modified it to be foiling or if they changed the boat in other ways.

The main issue with safety on these boats is getting trapped beneath the trampoline netting if the boat gets flipped; and on that issue I call question to the use of PFD's that are only going to pin the victim beneath the wreckage. IMO they should be wearing manual inflate devices so that they don't have to deploy it if they are stuck under something (and yes, I know there is the possibility of head injury).
 
#196 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

The main issue with safety on these boats is getting trapped beneath the trampoline netting if the boat gets flipped; and on that issue I call question to the use of PFD's that are only going to pin the victim beneath the wreckage. IMO they should be wearing manual inflate devices so that they don't have to deploy it if they are stuck under something (and yes, I know there is the possibility of head injury).
There is also the issue of the extreme height you will be at if you do capsize or pitch pole if you are on the "high" side going over.

And with things like Challenger, NASA stopped flights until the design could be reviewed and corrections made.

As it may be considered timid to halt the AC 72's, it could be considered reckless to continue racing until we know why we have had two capsizes and what could be done to correct the problem, if there is a problem.
 
#198 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Remember a race years ago in Fishkill, N.Y. There were whoops then a jump. Guy planted his front wheel after the jump and went down. Next one over landed on him. In any racing activity risk of death exists. As speed and complexity increases so does risk of design/material failure and death. Death/injury mitigation occurs after these events occur. This seems true in all racing endeavors. Can't fault AC for this. Believe guy died wearing an intact helmet, chest plate etc.(best stuff of the time). Could get rid of the jump but then race watered down. See issue of questioning if 72' too extreme. See issue if foiling ,hard sails and control at these speeds has been worked out. Don't see issue with pushing the edge but do see issue with whether it's being done in a thoughtful manner. Amazing to watch these boats but still have trouble relating as it is so alien to what we do.
 
#199 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

From what I have heard on radio and TV today, seems that the good money is on the reason for the accident being dodgy boat design or structural strength and that the Cup will continue as planned.

When I saw the first pictures of the wreckage it was reasonably easy to assume that the boat broke in half and caused the accident rather than the accident causing the boat to break in half.

As I said in an earlier post, we have watched these boats for some time training in Auckland harbor and even in 10 knots of true wind the boats were doing 20 knots of boat speed.

How many others on this board remember watching the last AC when the Oracle trimaran took down the headsail on an upwind beat because the headsail was slowing the boat down. This is counter-intuitive enough for me to understand that nothing about these boats is normal.

I reckon that if safety is to be enhanced it should be through placing a limit to windspeed. If a boat can do double the true windspeed then sailing it in 30 knots plus with a sail that can't dump wind is a little crazy (IMHO). They should cancel all sailing if the true windspeed exceeds , say, 20 knots.

Anyway, I still can't wait for this racing to begin.
 
#204 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

...
I reckon that if safety is to be enhanced it should be through placing a limit to windspeed. If a boat can do double the true windspeed then sailing it in 30 knots plus with a sail that can't dump wind is a little crazy (IMHO). They should cancel all sailing if the true windspeed exceeds , say, 20 knots.

....
There is a limit on the windspeed (30K?) like there was a (a lower) limit for AC monohulls. That cannot change know, it is part of the race rules and the boats were supposedly designed to be able to sail on those conditions. If some can't...well, good for the one(s) that can i(f the wind blows withy that strength on racing days).

Regards

Paulo
 
#200 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Going back to the last AC when Oracle trounced Bertarelli's cat and remembering how easy it was for Spithill to catch the cat in the start box on a port tack, they are hopefully going to change some rules about the dial-up sequences, etc. Spithill was miles away when Bertarelli tacked to port and with the unbelievable boat speed of the trimaran, he was onto the cat before they could blink.

The fact is that if a boat is caught on a port tack and earns a penalty, the other boat will finish the race and be back in it's pen by the time the penalised boat does a 360 to unwind his penalty.:p

One wonders how many of the old racing rules have become redundant with the new format of vessels, if any.
 
#202 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Minnewaska & Casey - I did not say that there should not be a root cause analysis; and some mitigation of risk. But to say that the entire AC72 fleet should be scrapped is a bit extreme don't you think?

I'd say that the boats should sail in less wind (like in the previous AC monohull events) but it's rare that the winds are lower than 25kts in the summer afternoons here on SF Bay. There have been days where Oracle did their practice sail on the South side of the SF Bay Bridge, likely because wind conditions were too high on the central bay; and we are still early in the sailing season here.

I don't really see much difference between an AC-72 flipping over or the larger offshore racing cats that have done so out in the middle of the ocean somewhere. At least these boats have trained rescue crews on chase boats. A 40' fall into water would not be fatal but falling against the wing sail could be. Spithill broke ribs when the 45 tipped over; so I'd assume injuries could be worse if someone fell onto the wing of the 72's. Tethers could be another safety consideration; but I don't think someone sailing a boat that has the potential to flip over would want to be clipped to it either.
 
#205 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

.....But to say that the entire AC72 fleet should be scrapped is a bit extreme don't you think? ....
This is what many on your side of the discussion continually suggest is the opposing view, but it isn't. No one advocating a safer platform is suggesting such a draconian solution. Misrepresenting or exaggerating the opposing point of view should be left to politicians. It devalues one's own point of view. :)

In fact, unless we have a serious engineer among us that is familiar with the intricacies of the cat/wing, we aren't going to figure out the exact solution. Neither would we have figured out the solution to the failed shuttle launch, race car deaths, car accident deaths or even football concussions.

What we can do is process the input of many professionals who suggest this is too risky (being very different from objecting to any risk) and the instability and the injury rates that have been proven by example. Then insist they figure out how to make it safer and remain exciting.

That's how race cars became safer, while more capable, at the same time. Goodness, even passenger cars are safer and more capable.

It can be done.
 
#211 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Although a TRC metric would be useful believe it would be some time before a meaningful ( low estimate of the error) number could be generated due to the low N. Also believe next subsequent race will involve boats that will contain major technologic advance. Therefore any number generated would not apply to the boats currently racing. However, very interested in the concept of the race being a totally human endeavor with no genset or powered aids. Believe this would limit speeds and increase safety and is a very intelligent idea. Also, restoring more humanity into the equation would enhance the race.
 
#213 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

First let me say I understand thoroughly OSHA and TRC rates

It would be pretty straightforward to calculate a TRC and fatality rate for a common class of monohull racing, and then do the same for the AC72s so far, and compare the rates. Then you get a much better picture of how safe/unsafe the AC72s are relative to other boats
.

Comparing AC72 with a small survey, which will skew, the rate to a well established base like mono hull racing. That statement is unrealistic at the present time. That is not the only statistic IMHO that is relevant here. This one seems somewhat cruel, because I value every individual life, but here goes.

I don't really care what the extrapolated TRC rate is for Americas Cup racers is because the TOTAL number of deaths will never be very high. Why...because there are very few participants and likely there will always remain like that. You want to take on a real cause....and make a real difference where it counts, take on something which will make a real difference than these extreme sport cutting edge test pilots...take on ParachIt would be pretty straightforward to calculate a TRC and fatality rate for a common class of monohull racing, and then do the same for the AC72s so far, and compare the rates. Then you get a much better picture of how safe/unsafe the AC72s are relative to other boats.
uters or better yet take on bike riders safety

I think is amusing that you want to apply OSHA rules and regs and TRC rates to this. Its applying a metric in one area which doesn't make sense in another. Oh you can relate it somehow as it will determine risk assessment rate, but who cares. We already have established this extreme racing is beyond the normal means of workplace safety inherently and nothing....nothing short of not doing it will change that. Lets do it with marathoners, mountain climbers, bike racers, parachuters, base jumping, skateboarding, driving a car, small aircraft flying, power boat racing etc.

Understand and do go misquoting or extrapolating I don't care about safety. I do. Make it as safe as possible without destroying the purpose of it. I believe in personal choice. If I wish to go fast and it wont harm anyone else but me....don't tell me I cant do it. I am an adult. I know the risks. I am responsible for my choices. I don't need you to protect me from myself. These guys have a choice. If someone with two kids and a wife chooses to do this I am sure they talked and thought about the consequences thoroughly. It is tragic as any life lost is tragic.

QUOTE=TakeFive;1031006]I am surprised that you are willing to make a statement like that without a shred of statistical support.

The first thing you do in assessing risk and safety is to normalize the number of accidents and injuries on exposure hours. OSHA specifies a total recordable case rate, which is the number of injuries per 200,000 man hours. It is a very good metric, because 2000 hours is a typical number of hours worked by a full time employee in a year. So the TRC rate gives, on average, how many injuries would be suffered in a year by a workforce of 100. It's a very nice way to put it. In addition to TRC for injuries, you can do the same calculation for near misses, first aid cases, and fatalities, and stack them to develop a safety pyramid with near misses on the bottom and fatalities on the top. Typical benchmark pyramids exist that can predict how many fatalaties you might have in the future based on your history of less severe injuries. Unfortunately, AC72 has already started to fill in the top of the pyramid. :mad:

It would be pretty straightforward to calculate a TRC and fatality rate for a common class of monohull racing, and then do the same for the AC72s so far, and compare the rates. Then you get a much better picture of how safe/unsafe the AC72s are relative to other boats.

It would be a lot better than simply saying "only two accidents and an unfortunate dead." I suspect that a calculated TRC would show these boats to be much more dangerous than any predecessors.[/QUOTE]
 
#215 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I know there is an irreconcilable difference of opinion on this, but I maintain that the crew have little to no actual choice. That discussion with their wives would go like this, hypothetically:

"I was offered a spot on an AC team."

"Isn't that incredibly dangerous and these new boats might really crash into each other and hurt people? I'm worried about the kids."

"Yes, but if I say no, I will never be offered another opportunity like it. I have to say yes, or hurt my career."

JMO.
 
#219 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I know there is an irreconcilable difference of opinion on this, but I maintain that the crew have little to no actual choice. That discussion with their wives would go like this, hypothetically:

"I was offered a spot on an AC team."

"Isn't that incredibly dangerous and these new boats might really crash into each other and hurt people? I'm worried about the kids."

"Yes, but if I say no, I will never be offered another opportunity like it. I have to say yes, or hurt my career."

JMO.
:D:D:D It seems you don't know top sail racers. If the place was offered to any, they would be jumping with joy all over the house:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#220 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

It could hurt my career to say no. Hahaha. This isn't blowing the boss under his desk- these serfs aren't being served up as cannon fodder to satisfy their lord's bloodlust. One doesn't arrive at the absolute pinnacle of a field based on the argument that "it might hurt the career not too"

The drive to be at the absolute top of ones chosen game - be it doctoring, lawyering, teaching, sailing, dog grooming, acting, bar tending, waitin tables, being a bell boy, cop, gardener, auto mechanic, or roller derby girl has almost nothing to do with the weakass desire to "be successful" and everything to do with being in a constant state of competition- with oneself if there's no one else around.
 
#226 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

So at 2 fatalities in 130 years- you think it's less safe than which round the world race? 2 fatalities in 130 years makes it more likely than a fatality in the Olympics / run up to the Olympics? Hmmm. Do you read the things your typing?

What is coming across loud and clear is your personal disappointment with the perceived quality / safety of the experience. Perhaps due to a lack of available jobs since you turned down a crew position in the AC... No? That's not the case?

My question becomes- will you tune out? Or will you continue to complain they aren't havin their race the way you want them to have their race? While you watch in fascinated horror- praying for that next casualty that will prove you right?

I will be out sailing tomorrow- is there anything I should be doing to make the experience more to your liking? Or more comfortable for you?

Just because the ego demands the largest audience possible be able to view the proceedings- doesn't mean the proceedings are designed as easily palatable entertainment for the viewer. If a guy is walking around showing off his badass Rolex, his 22 year old maxim model trophy girlfriend and his deep pockets- he's not doing it for your entertainment, he's doing it for his own. Whether or not you are comfortable with the show
Suggesting he change it so its more to your taste sounds silly
 
#227 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

So at 2 fatalities in 130 years- you think it's less safe than which round the world race? 2 fatalities in 130 years makes it more likely than a fatality in the Olympics / run up to the Olympics? Hmmm. Do you read the things your typing?

What is coming across loud and clear is your personal disappointment with the perceived quality / safety of the experience. Perhaps due to a lack of available jobs since you turned down a crew position in the AC... No? That's not the case?

My question becomes- will you tune out? Or will you continue to complain they aren't havin their race the way you want them to have their race? While you watch in fascinated horror- praying for that next casualty that will prove you right?

I will be out sailing tomorrow- is there anything I should be doing to make the experience more to your liking? Or more comfortable for you?

Just because the ego demands the largest audience possible be able to view the proceedings- doesn't mean the proceedings are designed as easily palatable entertainment for the viewer. If a guy is walking around showing off his badass Rolex, his 22 year old maxim model trophy girlfriend and his deep pockets- he's not doing it for your entertainment, he's doing it for his own. Whether or not you are comfortable with the show
Suggesting he change it so its more to your taste sounds silly
The other fatality you speak of in the AC training was a piece of broken gear that hit a sailor. It was not a capsize or break apart of an entire boat.

I have not been watching the AC, and don't plan to. I do read the news paper where the major accidents of the AC are printed. I do not plan to watch the upcoming AC races. The thing that turned me off wsa the type of boat they are using- one that cannot be controlled. Speed is nothing without control. As another poster posted, the AC's have a generator to power the computer and controls and winches. To me these AC's are then power boats. But if you like watching them, great, "Ain't that America".

That is the whole point of the AC, to get viewership. Doesn't matter if I don't watch it, but if a 100,000 don't watch it, then it matters.
 
#229 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

From:
America's Cup CEO Stephen Barclay on the Race's Competition and Tragedy - Businessweek

America's Cup CEO Stephen Barclay on the Race's Competition and Tragedy
May 16, 2012

America's Cup is the Super Bowl of the sailing world. We have a preseason, the America's Cup World Series, and playoffs, the Louis Vuitton Cup. If you measure the audience in terms of ratings and spectators, these events stand head and shoulders above anything else in sailing. My role as the chief executive is to conduct those events. The Cup is a medium-size business, employing over 100 people, with tens of millions of dollars a year in revenues and expenses. It's a bit of a handful to manage.

In recent years, we've wanted to put the Cup on a sounder financial footing and make it accessible to people other than the very, very wealthy. To do that, we needed to bring the race in from 10 miles offshore to where people can see it. For the sake of television, the races had to start on time. You can't have this huge buildup to a race and then have the television saying, "delayed due to lack of wind," which is a huge problem in sailing.

The answer to these issues was to use a catamaran instead of the monohull boats we've traditionally used in the Cup. Catamarans are very fast, can sail in very light or strong winds, and get so close to the shore that fans can hear the sailors talking. But sailing can be dangerous. What we have is the best sailors in the world, and the best designers in the world, pushing the boundaries. Like in all sports, when you put the best out there-be it race cars or skiing, or the Knicks-the best want to win. In those situations, sometimes things go very wrong. We had one of those situations [on May 9].

When the Artemis Racing boat capsized in San Francisco Bay, I heard about the accident about 10 minutes after it happened. I was immediately shocked. We heard one of the sailors was missing-followed by elation that they'd found him. That elation rapidly drained away as I became aware he was undergoing CPR. Thirty minutes later, Andrew Simpson (above, center, with Olympic teammate Iain Percy) was pronounced dead. It was an enormous loss. The America's Cup is like a family. Like any family, they bicker and quarrel at times. But everyone is just tragically feeling the loss.

I think it's far too raw to be able to know the impact of this tragedy on the event and on the boats. I don't want to prejudge anything. Andrew was a huge competitor. He had an Olympic gold medal. He had the brains to go with the brawn. He will help us come up with an answer. - As told to Aaron Kuriloff "
 
#230 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Odd- it seems that is exactly what it's about. Especially when it references "wide eyed city supervisors being bamboozled by Ellison"

Whose getting everything they want- Larry- the boats, the venue, etc.

Please let me know what the AC is about? Fundraising for SF? Advertising for corporations? Bringing sailing into the mainstream? Providing viewers with wholesome family entertainment?

If any of those were the goals- there's plenty of money tied up in the event to pull of those goals. Those aren't the goals however- from the outset this was suppose to be the most balls out sailing race ever. And boy did they get that in spades.
 
#231 ·
#233 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

From:
CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate

"The boats, which can exceed 45 mph, were chosen for the 34th America's Cup by the Oracle team and its owner, Larry Ellison, after they won the Cup in 2010. The catamarans were designed in part to attract a young audience accustomed to watching extreme sports on television."

Read more: CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate
and what's wrong with that? Who wants to watch boring sail? We, that love to watch sail races, love speed. The ones that don't love sail racing yet may love it if it is exciting enough (opposite of boring:rolleyes:).

We that love sailing want young people to be attracted by it we want them sailing and for that we have to make it attractive for them. It seems that Larry Ellison is making a favor to the sailing community creating conditions to attract young people.

On another register the inquiry has started and what we know now is quite confusing:

With Artemis, the speculation is that loads on the crossbeam, which links the two hulls, in front of the mast caused the girder to fail at its intersection with the port hull, after which the whole structure immediately collapsed: The port hull snapped in half just in front of the rudder, and the rigid wing fell over. Parts of the wing were seen being picked up by chase boats in the water around the main vessel.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/andrew-bart-simpson-artemis/

The description was given by Outteridge's father to reporters at the Australian Newcastle Herald newspaper and appeared to suggest that the Swedish catamaran had begun to break up before it capsized.

In the article Outteridge's father is quoted as telling Herald reporters how his son had described the crash in a phone call:

"Nathan told me [the turn] didn't seem any different to any other occasion. The bow dug in a little bit but he said that's not unusual. The next thing he heard a cracking noise and the boat went on its side. Before it capsized it snapped in half, Nathan described it as folding like a taco shell."

Today however, Artemis Racing's communications department issued an email with the following statement from Nathan Outteridge appearing to contradict how his father had been reported:

"The description of the accident in the Newcastle Herald while quoting my father is not correct and does not reflect the facts. Unfortunately it has been relayed by other media. Right now, we are all still mourning and working to understand what happened. I hope everyone can respect this and I thank all those who have expressed support."


http://www.sailracingmagazine.com/a...e-refutes-newcastle-herald-crash-description/

Regards

Paulo
 
#235 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Alot of the arguments you put forth seem to come from a perspective that has trouble differentiating between entertainers- and competitors.

The guys sailing the boats- the competitors- are their to compete. And if you think that's because of an audience- it says more about your lack of understanding of that personality than anything else. and that's ok, your lack of a frame of reference here is what separates pundits from players. Armchair quarterbacks from the guys on the field.

No one crewing is sitting back wondering if it'll make for good enough tv, or if it'll alienate middle America. There is an official party line, and no one wants to stry far from it- but at the end of the day- the competitor is there to compete.
 
#236 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Alot of the arguments you put forth seem to come from a perspective that has trouble differentiating between entertainers- and competitors.

The guys sailing the boats- the competitors- are their to compete. And if you think that's because of an audience- it says more about your lack of understanding of that personality than anything else. and that's ok, your lack of a frame of reference here is what separates pundits from players. Armchair quarterbacks from the guys on the field.

No one crewing is sitting back wondering if it'll make for good enough tv, or if it'll alienate middle America. There is an official party line, and no one wants to stry far from it- but at the end of the day- the competitor is there to compete.
There are many parties involved with the AC. Clearly you do not understand this. You read somthing and comprehend it the way you see fit.
 
#237 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Maybe I'm just tired after a long day, but I think I would just repeat myself as I disagreed with recent posts. Those posts also being the repeat of their author's previous writings. Of course, one or two did add a national or other dig, as if that would make their point persuasive. At least it was new material. :)

Not shocked that ultimately these debates never change anyone's mind on either side of the discussion. Mine is not changed.

Cheers.
 
#242 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

It was an interesting discussion the first couple times. And it did get challenging trying to present the argument in a fresh light- each a bit brighter than its forerunner. Striving to convey some crucial bit of information that might possibly tie the picture together for the daft bastard behind the other screen. Hoping with each tap on the iphone this misspelling- this one, the one autocorrec is dealing with rohht this second- this is the screentap that via the magical algoritms of ios6.something will be converted into the blinding- no- the healing light if truth...Everything I know about pearls and swine i learned on line. Ever have that feeling? You begin to have some self doubt about your ability to pen a coherent thought. All the while wondering- how can these guys be missin what an extraordinary bit of sailing this is and praising their efforts, rather than chastising them like wayward children. But then- does it matter? No- that is the crux o my argument after all.
 
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