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Painting Question, if I may?

8K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  Brent Swain 
#1 · (Edited)
I painted the hull of my boat with an alkyd enamel paint awhile back. Pretty durable paint but not very shiny. I don't want to do a complete repaint because the paint is still good. But I do want to try and make it shiny with out much work. I think I have two options, but not sure which is best.

1. Sand and paint a top coat of clear.

2. Sand and paint with a polyurethane type deck paint.

(Stupid question, can you buff and wax enamel paint?)

I am not sure if the polyurethane will go over the enamel.

And, I am not exactly sure what type clear to use. Someone told me I could use spar varnish, but I am not sure about that.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Love the name Pyewackette from the movie "Bell, Book & Candle".

Can you buff & wax enamel paint?
You could try it out on a small section. I doubt it would work as well as on gel coat as the wax gets forced into the small interstices (cracks, openings) in the gel coat. The paint you used would have already sealed these tiny spaces.

So you want some gloss on your hull, eh? You should have used a glossy enamel in the first place. I'm not sure why polyurethane would not stick to enamel if you want to stick to non-marine products.
I would not use varnish for this, ever.
One "marine" product I would consider using is Cetol Clear Gloss which is pretty easy to apply and fairly long lasting for exterior uses.
 
#3 ·
Correct on the name, that's exactly were I got it.

Actually, the enamel that is on it is a marine paint. A tugboat captain owned the boat before me and he put it on. I repainted it with the same stuff thinking I could do a better job, not knowing that alkyd enamel just ain't going to get shiny.

So, I am trying to redo without having to actually redo, everything.

Also, the polyurethane I was thinking of using is Interlux's Brightside deck paint. They don't really have the color I want, but if it will work over enamel I might try other venders.

I checked into the Cetol Clear Gloss you mentioned but it looks like it only works on wood. Is this correct?
 
#4 ·
I would lightly sand with 400 grit, clean very well with wax/grease remover, then tack cloths, and then apply an enamel clear coat. Many brands are available. You can roll/brush it on, use those glass containers that some with aerosol charges and use the canned clear coat in those to spray it, or use the clear coat that already comes in spray cans. I would use 2 coats, not sanding or cleaning between coats and select a high gloss if u really want it shiny. I've used this method myself on my boat with excellent results. Hope this helps!
 
#5 ·
I concur with this.
I would lightly sand with 400 grit, clean very well with wax/grease remover, then tack cloths, and then apply an enamel clear coat. Many brands are available. You can roll/brush it on, use those glass containers that some with aerosol charges and use the canned clear coat in those to spray it, or use the clear coat that already comes in spray cans. I would use 2 coats, not sanding or cleaning between coats and select a high gloss if u really want it shiny. I've used this method myself on my boat with excellent results. Hope this helps!
It's been along time since i had to think about paints. (went to college for Auto refinishing) I believe the only thing you can use over this paint would be another clear that is of the same type.
It sounds like you have an enamel with no hardner; so, that would rule out any type of polyurethane or urethanes or hardened enamels. If you do go over it with something that is "harder" than it will crack most likely and not adhere properly.
If you can find the same brand as the original that would be best. Brand mixing at times can spell disaster. if nothing else go right to a paint specialist and they will give you a very good recommendation. I would recommend this anyway.
Since appears to be glorified house paint i believe it can't be waxed either.

Most modern paints are parts of what manufacturers like to call "protective coating systems," which include compatible fillers, putties, fairing compounds, thinners, and undercoats.If you're planning anything more than a touch-up, ask for the full manufacturer's directions because, all too often, one kind of paint will not stick to another's undercoat, even if it's made by the same manufacturer.Marine paints can be divided into two groups: topside paints and bottom paints.There are at least four major kinds of topside paint used on boats, each with its own characteristics and applications:Alkyd enamel. Marine alkyd enamels are nothing more than formulations of oil-based exterior house paint. On boats, this type of paint is great for interior spaces and makes an inexpensive deck paint. Thirty years ago, alkyd enamel was also the leading choice for topside paint, and it still does the job. But for a fiberglass hull, which-unlike a wooden hull with its constant working-provides a stable platform for a long-lasting paint, polyurethane provides a longer life and a higher gloss.Single-part polyurethane. This is a urethane-modified alkyd enamel, a compromise between alkyd enamel and true polyurethane, which offers good gloss, three- to five-season longevity, and moderate ease of application.Two-part linear polyurethane (LPU). This is the best choice for high gloss and a long life, but it's a problem to apply. A professional polyurethane job is sprayed-not recommended for the amateur even if wearing the requisite respirator. Several brands are formulated for application with roller and brush; done correctly, the result is almost indistinguishable from a spray coating. Ideally, it's a two-person job: one to roll on the paint with vertical strokes, the other following behind with a paintbrush to tip the paint with horizontal strokes. As always with marine coatings, preparation is the key to success. The primer will be proprietary to the topcoat.Epoxy. Epoxy is sometimes used as a primer over porous or crazed gelcoat under a topcoat of marine alkyd enamel, but its high susceptibility to ultraviolet degradation renders it unsuitable as a topcoat.Bottom paints are mostly antifouling paints; that is, they contain a compound to deter or prevent the growth of marine organisms, such as weed and barnacles, that would slow the progress of a boat or damage the hull surface. There are at least four common types of bottom paint: ablative, sloughing, modified epoxy, and vinyl, all of which usually contain a copper biocide. Teflon paint has no biocidal properties, and is used on racing craft removed from the water after use. Bottom paints may be incompatible, too, so you must find out what type of paint is on your boat's bottom before you paint over it
 
#10 ·
If you have some extra paint, I would pick up a piece of metal, or a junk bpdy panel form a junkyard, and paint it. Let it dry a good 48 hours. Then experiment on THAT instead of the boat.

I've seen some really incredible results using a 600-800 wet sanding following by a 2000 or 3000 sanding or polish (I think 3M's Finesse compound is a 3000 polish) and some of that stuff can give you a mirror finish from what looked like junk. Then the trick is to apply a good wax or finish and keep it up. But the ridiculously fine polish, and some elbow grease, makes an incredible difference.

If you use a good wax like Collinite Fleetwax, you get a great shine. If you use an acrylic or polymer finish like NuFinish, it may give you a shinier "harder" gloss but it needs to be maintained forever after--or stripped. Unlike wax, which just wears off and needs to be cleaned and re-applied. So far I'm still in favor of the wax.
 
#12 ·
Wax on exterior painted surfaces is the normal sacrificial protectant. If you don't use wax, you use a polymer polish or other material which is harder to remove. Or you leave the paint bare and UV breaks it down.

So the cheapest best solution is to use wax, and then when you want to repaint, that's why the good lord invented PrepSolv and terry rags, so you can strip the wax off easily and completely, the way that every paint shop does with every car, boat, and plane for every repaint job.
 
#13 ·
How does the wax stop UV from deteriorating one part paint ?

Don't be fooled by some companies that lead you to believe that it is the UV protection in a wax that protects your car's finish from fading and failure, this is dishonest and simply not true.

I never see anybody wax there house ?


Its a one part paint past it lifespan that is not hard enough to be buffed back to a gloss :D
 
#14 ·
House paint isn't a gloss paint. And house paint does break down, does chalk, but it is a very different product from what is used on cars boats and planes. Or do you think the paint makers are all lying when they say to use a wax (or proprietary material) for routine protection? The hull makers all lying about protecting gelcoat? The chalky gelcoat you see on unwaxed hulls, just coincidence?
 
#15 ·
Back in the day I used to paint my hull with the local building supplys best polyurethane porch & deck enamel, roll and tip. Worked pretty well, shiny, and fairly durable, three years anyway. The price was certainly right since it didn't say "marine" on the label.
Also, I think it's "Pyewacket".
 
#16 ·
IIRC Pyewacket was also the name of Walter Chronkite's yacht.

Marine topside coatings (they'd send out a hit squad if I used the "p" word) are generally supposed to go 10+ years between resprays, so if you were getting three with household deck paint...I guess that works if it is cheap enough, or you like color changes.
 
#17 ·
Bite the bullet, and do it right. Take off the old crap, put on proper marine paint - Interlux one or two part coatings, and they have superb support and videos to teach you how it's done. By the time you finish screwing around with these half baked solutions, you'll have spent as much time as painting your boat, and STILL be no further ahead.
Tommays, that's a beautiful finish, far better than the last job I did. You should open a thread on this and give us all your secrets!
 
#19 ·
In case anyone is interested, you can buff/wax 3 year old alkyd enamel paint.

I first wet sanded with 600 grit and then high speed buffed with 3M Restorer and Wax Step 1. I probably could have done a better job if I would have started with 400 grit and stepped up to 1200 and then buffed with the 3M. But, I wanted to do it fast and I am planning on repainting next haul out anyway.

One thing I did do, is paint the white boot strip and bottom first before applying the wax.
 

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#20 ·
Some urethanes work over old , time hardend, sanded alkyde, without softening it. Try a small patch.
Wax eliminates all future alternatives, except stripping it all off, and starting from scratch, a huge and uneccessary job.
 
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