SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > VHF Protocol
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Thread: VHF Protocol Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
06-13-2013 07:53 PM
Goldfinger
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Just reviewed the CG's procedure for issuing a Mayday (post 13). Wondered why they want the words Mayday stated 4 times, and the boats name stated 5 times BEFORE the location is given.
Here in OZ call Mayday 3 times and repeat vessel name 3 times is designated. Having said that, many boat names are very difficult to understand over a poor VHF transmission and a skipper with an accent can make it worse, perhaps that's why they want it repeated more times.

Never-the-less, in responding to a mayday I would ask for the location, POB and problem, (in that order) BEFORE clarifying the vessel's name if I didn't get it the first time. Vessel name, description and any other details can be gathered once response has been initiated (as you say)... and (to repeat myself) if communications are lost before all details are collected, you have what you need to go searching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
While 30 seconds could make a difference if I lost my engine, steering, etc. and was in danger of being washed aground, I would have deployed ground tackle before issuing a Mayday, if I didn't have enough crew to do both simultaneously. Thoughts?
AND if you get your ground tackle out and you're stuck hard, then you are no longer in a Mayday situation. Mayday is defined as: "a vessel or person using it, is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance."
06-13-2013 04:48 PM
L124C
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
Name is part of the Mayday call, (Mayday Mayday Mayday this is XXXX) but the most important thing is broadcast POSTION first... if nothing else gets out then at least those who hear know where to look.
Next is POB (number of People On Board)... even if responders don't know the problem, they know where to look and HOW MANY PEOPLE they're looking for.
The PROBLEM is important of course but only third priority.
Just reviewed the CG's procedure for issuing a Mayday (post 13). Wondered why they want the words Mayday stated 4 times, and the boats name stated 5 times BEFORE the location is given. Based on passed experience, I'm guessing it is to allow people (including the CG) time to listen up, stop talking, turn up the volume on their VHF to actually hear the most important item, location (as you point out).
Just ran through the procedure hypothetically. The whole thing takes 20 seconds, 30 if you elaborate (as to help/equipment needed, etc.). While that would seem like an eternity if your boat was taking on water, if it makes the difference between sinking and staying afloat, I think your boat was probably doomed anyway. At least all the info was broadcast, and time was provided for people to pay attention and hear it. I'm assuming the CG could then listen to a recording and determine the identity of the boat AFTER they have dispatched help (if they didn't catch it at first and communication hasn't been established because you are up to your ass in alligators!).
While 30 seconds could make a difference if I lost my engine, steering, etc. and was in danger of being washed aground, I would have deployed ground tackle before issuing a Mayday, if I didn't have enough crew to do both simultaneously. Thoughts?
06-13-2013 01:07 AM
Goldfinger
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyquest37 View Post
Key things to transmit are who you are (boat name), where you are (GPS is fine, but other boats will want to know where your are with respect to local landmarks), and what your problem is.
Name is part of the Mayday call, (Mayday Mayday Mayday this is XXXX) but the most important thing is broadcast POSTION first... if nothing else gets out then at least those who hear know where to look.
Next is POB (number of People On Board)... even if responders don't know the problem, they know where to look and HOW MANY PEOPLE they're looking for.
The PROBLEM is important of course but only third priority.
06-12-2013 05:31 PM
DRFerron
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Have been told generally good idea to put numbers on dinghy and nothing else even if mother vessel has O.N. documentation. That way nefarious folks are not cued in if you are on or off your boat by checking out which dinghies are at the dinghy dock. Just saying.
I heard that too. That it's a good idea not to make your dinghy identifiable to your boat in any easily recognized way.
06-12-2013 05:17 PM
outbound
Re: VHF Protocol

Have been told generally good idea to put numbers on dinghy and nothing else even if mother vessel has O.N. documentation. That way nefarious folks are not cued in if you are on or off your boat by checking out which dinghies are at the dinghy dock. Just saying.
06-12-2013 02:39 PM
johnnyquest37
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
I believe that's only required for commercial vessels, which also must have the name on the port and starboard bow. For recreational boats it just has to be clearly visible on the hull somewhere.
"FEDERALLY DOCUMENTED VESSELS -- The Requirements Are:
The Name of Vessel and Hailing Port, to include City and State, must be located TOGETHER on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The letters and numbers can be made by the use of any means and materials which result in durable markings. They must be made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numbers, all of which are NOT LESS THAN FOUR (4) INCHES IN HEIGHT (all characters). Above reviewed by the United States Coast Guard office of Boating Safety on: 12/16/04"

http://www.usps.org/national/vsc/pol.../vesselreg.pdf

Not sure, but for State registered vessels, I figure the display of the numbers is more proscribed than display of the boat name.
06-12-2013 02:11 PM
Resolute_ZS
Re: VHF Protocol

Thanks for the education. I read the entire thread before posting, including the devolution of the thread's original post and question.

We agree - having a positive way to identify a boat is important. I was replying to your post I quoted, however, regarding how the CG identifies a hailing vessel when they don't give information.

While the CG shouldn't have to call for radio silence, I'm sure you've come across people who do not observe radio protocol. "They shouldn't have to" call for silence is like saying the police "shouldn't have to" pull people over for speeding, because people know not to speed.

Not to worry about your threads - I'll know to steer clear from your abrasive attitude in the future. I know I'm not the only person you've rubbed the wrong way with your confrontational demeanor. I hope that the meaning behind your words was lost in poor internet interpretation; it's hard to add appropriate emphasis to speech in type format. Fair sailing to you.
06-12-2013 01:54 PM
L124C
Re: VHF Protocol

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute_ZS View Post
Seriously? If they don't have the information from the original hailing, then they ask the vessel to identify themselves and their location. How hard is that?
Please...read BEFORE you post. Here is the post I was referring to:
Originally Posted by jsaronson
When I've heard a distress call to Baltimore the first question from the CG is "is everyone wearing a PFD?" Never heard a request for call sign or registration number. Proper protocol on VHF is honored mostly in the breach.
(bold letters added by me.)
As I read this, it seems the point is that the identity of the boat is of little significance. My point is that it's only of significance if you want to communicate effectively. Probably why it is the first item listed in the Mayday protocol, after "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday".
Quote:
Also, if you've listened to VHF in a busy area, CG will call for radio silence except for them and the hailing vessel during an emergency. When people chime in by accident, they will reiterate the radio silence.
Is the San Francisco bay busy enough for you? I've never heard the CG call for radio silence (though, often they will move the communication to 22). They shouldn't have to, as you are supposed to monitor a channel for two minutes before broadcasting (Maydays not withstanding of course). Even with "radio silence" how would three involved boats and the CG communicate without ID? The skit "Who's on first, What's on second" comes to mind!
Quote:
What's hard to believe is that although you've started this thread with a question, and experienced people have given you answers, you act like a troll in your own thread. Is your goal to annoy people? You don't seem very satisfied with reasonable answers to your OP.
I start and participate in threads to learn and exchange ideas. If you review this thread, you will see that I have "liked" several posts. On the other hand, some have posted with apparent authority, who's posts simply didn't hold up to logic IMO. I'm going to call BS when I see it. If that's being a "Troll" so be it! If it "irritates" you, avoid my threads, as I'll do it every time!
While CG protocol seems to vary more than I would have anticipated from state to state, I find it "hard to believe" (though possible) that they don't care about the identity of the boat they are talking to. Here, they usually say "US Coast Guard, Lady Lea"....How many people on board ?"(for example) with every transmission.
So...now that you have read the post I was referring to, and based on your nonresponsive response, I assume we agree that the identity of the vessel (regardless of how it is obtained) is important for effective radio communications? (They don't have a troll emoticon or I would have used it.)
06-12-2013 12:14 PM
L124C
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaronson View Post
They address the boat by the name given by the caller. Not rocket science!
I'm confused. I thought your point was that the CG didn't request the identity (name/number) of the vessel in your area. Therefore, it would be more than "Rocket Science"...it would be telepathy!
06-12-2013 12:11 PM
steve77
Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Names are supposed to be placed on the transom.
I believe that's only required for commercial vessels, which also must have the name on the port and starboard bow. For recreational boats it just has to be clearly visible on the hull somewhere.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.