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Another America�s Cup entry destroyed

38K views 386 replies 55 participants last post by  shadowraiths 
#1 ·
#355 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

The boats look incredibly fast and it is fun to watch.

The crew not so much. I realize these are the best sailors in the world and are probably great athletes off the boat but watching them swaddled in helmets and other protective gear and stumbling across the trampolines and randomly grinding on the coffee grinders, reminded me more of a special needs sporting event. I know most of these sailors have cat like grace, so I wonder what I would look like trying to make the 100 yard dash across the tramp to the other side?
 
#356 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I think these boats are cool as hell, but can't help but notice a few things that may be problematic going into the AC. Cat's by nature sail fastest when flying a hull. These boats seem to need to be sailed more flat in order to foil. These two opposing concepts seem to make them difficult control.

They have wave piercing hulls (like a high tech Cat) but sail fastest when there hulls are not even touching the water... Makes me question the overall design concept.

With the VERY rapid acceleration that takes place when the boat goes up on foils it seems like its going to be difficult for these boats to sail too closely together while going around the course. That would conflict a bit with the concept behind racing these boats, in a near shore, spectator friendly environment.

Foiling was not in the original plan for these boats and I think it shows. My question is with the above points, is foiling going to make this AC better or worse???
 
#357 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I think these boats are cool as hell, but can't help but notice a few things that may be problematic going into the AC. Cat's by nature sail fastest when flying a hull. These boats seem to need to be sailed more flat in order to foil. These two opposing concepts seem to make them difficult control.
I am thinking the speed advantage from flying a hull is the decreased wetted surface as a result. I think the whole foiling aspect of these boats makes this a mute point. My guess is my 19 foot kayak has more wetted surface than these boats when foiling.

I went back to re-watch this video. It is amazing to watch them scramble back and forth obviously working some sort of lines. But I can't see a single thing moving on the sails. It looks like the jib may be self tacking and I can't detect any movement from the wing. It looks like they just start cranking on the winch and the boat steps up on the foil and takes off. Maybe they are not controlling lines with the coffee grinders maybe they are winding up a huge rubber band.:D

Even the tactics and the boat movements seem totally foreign to me. The only thing I could tell for sure was when the upwind foil went down they were going to tack.
 
#358 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

The AC race course is pretty narrow and given the tacking angles of the 72s, I think it will be one heck of a tacking duel both windward and leeward. Word on the Bay is Oracle is faster flat out foiling but Emirates is more "nimble", faster in tacking and coming up on foil. Neither boat has a clear cut advantage over the other. Given the number of lead changes during the 45's races, I think this series will be a nail biter up until the final finish.
 
#359 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Prior posts make it apparent we are going to have to learn a whole new lexicon to describe and understand what these boats are doing. It seems to have no similarity to the boats we sail. A primer on the controls and physics of these boats would be helpful. So far have just read brief descriptions in Sail and like rags. ?Can anyone supply a more detailed discussion. I believe all that grinding is to handle the foils and change the conformation of the main wing.
 
#364 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

I'm an admitted cynic on these 72s. That said, what is so new here? Cats, wings, foils? All been around for some time. It's only the boat on steroids that seems new.

Also, what controls pitch on these things when they're doing 40 kts?
What's new is that all 3 of those things are combined on one boat, and then super sized.

The rules prohibit moveable control surfaces on the dagger boards and rudders, so instead the entire dagger board can be moved side to side and fore and aft.
 
#363 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

These boats are awesome. It's a real tragedy that someone drowned but they are all big boys and know what the risks are.

This is essentially a new sport with little comparison to the old 12 meters which were mostly IN the water. These guys are connected mostly to the sky with just enough graphite in the water to call it "boating." :)
 
#365 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Man, those guys are doing a lot of running. Almost seems like it would be worth the weight to have port crew and starboard crew. They would all stay fresher for grinding (which would happen faster as well) and be less likely to trip or go overboard.
 
#366 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

From the "Rich but Clueless" files....

According to Lat38, the Americas Cup Concert Series at the AC Pavillion kicks off with ... wait for it ... The Steve Miller Band!!! With special guests The Doobie Brothers!!!!! Ja man -- what better way to drive home the radical, cutting-edge nature of the New AC, freshen up the brand, and turn the heads of the Facebook Generation than to enlist two bands whose last contribution to music was, oh, about 1979?

So lucky they were available -- Mall of America gig must have fallen thru.:p
 
#374 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

A little upset that the AC Event Authority is making a little money besides selling tickets on race day? No doubt there is a thriving performing arts scene out there in Cow Pie, Wyoming. Here is the list of acts performing at the AC Pavilion this summer:

Sting
Imagine Dragons
Steve Miller Band and The Doobie Brothers
Counting Crows and The Wallflowers
San Francisco Symphony
Weezer
311
Sublime
Cheech & Chong with WAR
Train
The Jonas Brothers
Steely Dan
Heart
Jason Mraz
Sammy Hagar
Fall Out Boy with Panic! At The Disco
The Lumineers with Dr. Dog and Nathaniel Rateliff

Would you rather they book these acts in the AT&T ballpark? HP Pavilion? Shoreline? Paul Mason? Stern Grove? (Just to mention a few of the local venues.) With the per-race ticket prices going from $50 to $600+, I think the target demographic is a little on the upscale than your average cow-chip thrower. Have fun sailing in your cattle pond this year!
 
#385 ·
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Nobody wanted to see Andrew Simpson or any other sailor die.
Hopefully it never happens again.
That said racing is racing and America's Cup has always been a teckno / courtroom sport.
It has never been one design racing.
Traditionalist will disagree but I for one am glad to have a venue that pushes the limit of the sport.
Just like F1 racing safety will follow.
Perhaps the name of my vessel gives it all away.
MS Bombay 31 Still Crazy
 
#387 · (Edited)
Re: Another America's Cup entry destroyed

Director threatens to scuttle America's Cup


In the latest twist to the contentious America's Cup, regatta director Iain Murray threatened Wednesday to scuttle the competition unless his safety recommendations are upheld by the Cup's international jury.

The five-member jury is scheduled to meet Monday to hear a protest by Emirates Team New Zealand and Italy's Luna Rossa Challenge over Murray's recommendation to require larger, heavier rudder elevators.

Rudder elevators are the winglets on the base of the rudder blades that help control the pitch of the boat. The configuration of the elevators is the only unresolved part of 37 recommendations Murray made after the death of British sailor Andrew "Bart" Simpson when the Artemis Racing boat capsized May 9.

[...]

If the jury agrees with New Zealand and Luna Rossa and allows their original, smaller elevators, Murray said, he'll go back to the Coast Guard, which issued a racing permit this week, and say he doesn't think the racing would be safe.

In that case, the Coast Guard would almost certainly withdraw its permit. "Without a permit to race on San Francisco Bay, there will be no regatta," Murray said.

A Coast Guard spokesman confirmed that a new safety plan would have to be formulated for the event to go on.

"We would have to talk to the America's Cup officials, but they would need a new plan," Chief Petty Officer Mike Lutz said.

[...]

Dalton said larger elevators are not "necessary or safe at all." In Murray's recommended changes, the elevators would extend beyond the width of the boat, Dalton said. If a crew member fell over the side, he said, the elevator could cut him in half.

link
 
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