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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-21-2013 02:58 PM
mbetter
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Sta-Lok and Norsman terminals by their construction will allow for more trapped water. Do you really want that maintenance item?
I strongly disagree. A properly installed and mechanical fitting should have sealant anywhere there isn't steel and should allow less trapped water than a swaged fitting. You also can inspect the inside of a mechanical fitting for corrosion. With a swaged fitting, you'll find out about the corrosion when the rig comes down.
06-20-2013 01:16 AM
agent9
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Agent9, you are approaching this in the right way. Too often, posters buying older boats are blind to the amount of deferred maintenance that needs to be addressed and the expenses involved with rigging, engines and sails.
I understand that point of view and did a lot of research before buying the boat, but just like many things I have learned more in the first three days of owning the boat then in several months of research. I think I have officially reach the end of my young and dumb years and onto my slightly more responsible years with a realization I am not invincible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
As stated above, the best of all worlds is to have the rigger pull the stick. All the riggers I know will let you work on your stick while it is down and while they are making the new stays and shrouds. The downside is “mission creep” as you see that a lot of hardware is on the verge of needing replacing and how easy it would be to do some upgrades. I know, years ago I needed to replace a headstay and wound up stripping the sticks, painting them and replacing all sorts of hardware (and replacing the rest of the wire.) I recall that I overran that budget by 3X.

Without looking at your boat, I would say your cracked swages are headstay at the stem fitting and the bases of the cap shrouds and lowers. Your back stay has no crack. You have a low freeboard boat and the front is continuously getting doused in our Bay chop. Even with machined rolled swages, water got in and caused crevice corrosion. Sta-Lok and Norsman terminals by their construction will allow for more trapped water. Do you really want that maintenance item? Besides, your wire is pretty small (3/16, 7/32?) and easily machine swaged. I have taken the Biron Toss rigging class and re-wired one boat by myself. I won’t do that again. But if you are game I’d be happy to sell you a Loos Gauge.
That is my plan, I want someone who knows what they are doing rig it. Seems like one of those things that seems like a quick weekend project and 2 months later you are questioning why you did it yourself even more then you are questioning why you ever bought this damn boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I know that Biron too, has finally come around to synthetic life lines, but I remain skeptical. The fibers attract grime (I have a synthetic gate on my sugar scoop). You have a single lifeline, again small diameter, get wire (I prefer uncoated). You will be buying new turnbuckles and fittings anyway which is probably a majority of the expense. Standing rigging wire is a different construction than your lifelines and not flexible. If you use it in a lifeline application, you will not be able to use your gates.
Good to know about the gates. I have never used them as is, and maybe not opposed to the idea of some less then ideal lifelines for the short term. Seems like a good way to delay a larger expense for a little while focusing on the more immediate issues.

[quote=GeorgeB;1046270]Your packing gland should look something like this: All you need to do is tighten it less than a turn to stop the constant drip. This is an owner job and done in the water. If it is a full stop and still leaking, then haul the boat and replace. I am a little concerned that your through-hulls are leaking. If they are leaking at the hoses, replace the hoses and hose clamps (probably fifty year old clamps anyways). You will want to double clamp all hoses below the waterline. I would work on stopping all the leaks. In the meanwhile, leave your battery charger plugged into shore power. A cycling pump will kill a group 24 or 27 battery in no time.

The marina claims to have tightened it as much as possible. I am going to double check it myself and see what happens. The through hull leak is really minor as I recall, and I believe it was on the sea-toilet, which I am not opposed to sealing from the outside since it is never used anyways. It is plugged in 24/7, I am definitely not depending on the battery to deal with it. Way too cautious of a person for that.

I will take some pictures of the through hull in question when I am out there tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
As you can see from my signature, my boat is over in the east Bay and I am most familiar with those boat yards. Talk to your dock neighbors for recommendations about San Francisco Boat Works. Your boat is “classic plastic” and although you will never completely recover the money you spend in resale value, it will give you years of enjoyable service in the future.
It seems like the boat yard prices go down a bit in Berkeley / Alameda, and I am really not too far to motor over there, I motored from Sausalito to the SF Marina on my first day with the boat, and from the SF Marina to Oyster Point on my second, so Alameda seems like a nice little jaunt on a nice day. So I would love to know your opinion on the yards over there.

One thing I am remembering is that I do not recall seeing the clamps on my prop shaft, almost like it came through the fiberglass and straight into the stuffing box. I will take a picture tomorrow morning, I plan on checking on the boat then.

Thanks again for all the advice, really helpful and greatly appreciated.
06-19-2013 11:57 PM
shadowraiths
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Congrats on your new boat. Cheoy Lee's are beautiful. I'll defer all the advice to the guys who actually know what they're doing (I don't), outside of noting that replacing your bilge pump and switch should be a piece of cake. Like, a 15 minute piece of cake. The long part is the research. For example, what size (i.e., GPH) makes the most sense. I'd def go for at least what it already has. But again, the guys can prolly give you better advice wrt that bit. That said, again. Congrats. Oh and. Welcome aboard, matey. ^_~
06-19-2013 11:48 PM
Simon123
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

One option on the rigging, it's not pay and walk away like a rigger would be but it's a reasonable compromise, is to have the mast unstepped and take all the rigging to a cable place that does construction crane cables. The size that you need will be control lines and they can exactly duplicate your stays for much much less than a rigger or even do an upsize for you. They are building it to be supporting men and materials over a city street so they are at least as rigorous about safety and reliability as a rigger will be. I had the stay I needed created while I waited for ~$30. Not every place will do it but the place I found in Dallas one of the office guys was a sailor and he walked it back to the shop personally for me.
06-19-2013 11:33 PM
agent9
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
Agent9, when I pulled my deck-stepped mast it was about 15 minutes of crane work. You can remove a lot of stuff yourself before the crane arrives (boom, sails). When the crane arrives and holds the mast you just release the standing rigging at deck level and away it goes! Is your mast stepped on the deck or keel?
Deck stepped, I assume this makes it a bit easier to remove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
I agree that doing the stuffing box on the hard is the best option. You can tackle that along with replacing through hulls and valves as well. If you're quick about it you can do most in a day, then another 2 for painting the bottom and you're back in the water. As much as I understand your desire to get out sailing, seeing to these problems first will only take a few days and you'll enjoy the peace of mind when you are out sailing, knowing the essentials are taken care of. The rest you can deal with in the water, little by little, without interrupting your sailing. As you're in SF, you have a nice long sailing season so you won't miss much of it doing the repairs now. Just my 2 cents.
Rigging is immediate, I really want to get a divers opinion on the bottom of the boat before committing to pulling it out of the water. If she needs paint / blisters patched as well, I am going to have to plan a bit more for time / work space. I may do the top paint at the same time and make a jolly old painting week out of it. Otherwise I am just going to have it pulled and to deal with the stuffing box, and deal with the through hulls. I would love to deal with all the bottom painting once it gets cold and nasty at the end of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
A quick side story. A friend of mine bought a Dufour 35 that was rather neglected. He couldn't stand the sight of the boat in such a state and went ahead and painted the boat, got a new mainsail, new sail covers and other cosmetics. He blew his budget before he really had a chance to see all the problems. As it turned out, the main problem was the many leaks, which he should have dealt with first, before anything else. The boat is now literally waterlogged and rotten (decks, bulkheads, cushions etc.). The moral of the story is: do what is essential for safety or maintaining the integrity of the boat first (to "contain" further decay), and then set about doing the rest at your leisure and as money allows.
Great little story,and i am sure it is fairly common. I am not looking the prettiest boat out there, I am looking for a fun boat with some character that is safe and I trust. I have a 72 BMW R60/5 motorcycle that I have rebuilt which is the same kind of story. I know the bike inside and out and I like her dents and dings and general patina. I trust her mechanically because I have done it all to her. Given, I do not have to depend on her floating, and she has not been sitting in salt water for the last 40 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
On a positive note, a boat like yours will be easy to maintain and will cost quite a bit less to bring up to bristol condition than a larger boat. It will also be one heck of a nice boat! Post those pics!
That is what I am hoping.

On a really positive note, I took my jib in to be patched, and the wonderful woman (Harriet) very gently told me that it was more or less beyond repair, but had a set of sails in the back that will my boat which she gave me an AMAZING deal on. Already a HUGE fan of Harriets Sail Repaint in North Beach San Francisco. So at very least I have a new set of sails I am confident in....once I get to the point of using them.
06-19-2013 03:52 PM
GeorgeB
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Agent9, you are approaching this in the right way. Too often, posters buying older boats are blind to the amount of deferred maintenance that needs to be addressed and the expenses involved with rigging, engines and sails.

As stated above, the best of all worlds is to have the rigger pull the stick. All the riggers I know will let you work on your stick while it is down and while they are making the new stays and shrouds. The downside is “mission creep” as you see that a lot of hardware is on the verge of needing replacing and how easy it would be to do some upgrades. I know, years ago I needed to replace a headstay and wound up stripping the sticks, painting them and replacing all sorts of hardware (and replacing the rest of the wire.) I recall that I overran that budget by 3X.

Without looking at your boat, I would say your cracked swages are headstay at the stem fitting and the bases of the cap shrouds and lowers. Your back stay has no crack. You have a low freeboard boat and the front is continuously getting doused in our Bay chop. Even with machined rolled swages, water got in and caused crevice corrosion. Sta-Lok and Norsman terminals by their construction will allow for more trapped water. Do you really want that maintenance item? Besides, your wire is pretty small (3/16, 7/32?) and easily machine swaged. I have taken the Biron Toss rigging class and re-wired one boat by myself. I won’t do that again. But if you are game I’d be happy to sell you a Loos Gauge.

I know that Biron too, has finally come around to synthetic life lines, but I remain skeptical. The fibers attract grime (I have a synthetic gate on my sugar scoop). You have a single lifeline, again small diameter, get wire (I prefer uncoated). You will be buying new turnbuckles and fittings anyway which is probably a majority of the expense. Standing rigging wire is a different construction than your lifelines and not flexible. If you use it in a lifeline application, you will not be able to use your gates.

Your packing gland should look something like this: All you need to do is tighten it less than a turn to stop the constant drip. This is an owner job and done in the water. If it is a full stop and still leaking, then haul the boat and replace. I am a little concerned that your through-hulls are leaking. If they are leaking at the hoses, replace the hoses and hose clamps (probably fifty year old clamps anyways). You will want to double clamp all hoses below the waterline. I would work on stopping all the leaks. In the meanwhile, leave your battery charger plugged into shore power. A cycling pump will kill a group 24 or 27 battery in no time.



As you can see from my signature, my boat is over in the east Bay and I am most familiar with those boat yards. Talk to your dock neighbors for recommendations about San Francisco Boat Works. Your boat is “classic plastic” and although you will never completely recover the money you spend in resale value, it will give you years of enjoyable service in the future.
06-19-2013 02:38 PM
copacabana
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Agent9, when I pulled my deck-stepped mast it was about 15 minutes of crane work. You can remove a lot of stuff yourself before the crane arrives (boom, sails). When the crane arrives and holds the mast you just release the standing rigging at deck level and away it goes! Is your mast stepped on the deck or keel?

I agree that doing the stuffing box on the hard is the best option. You can tackle that along with replacing through hulls and valves as well. If you're quick about it you can do most in a day, then another 2 for painting the bottom and you're back in the water. As much as I understand your desire to get out sailing, seeing to these problems first will only take a few days and you'll enjoy the peace of mind when you are out sailing, knowing the essentials are taken care of. The rest you can deal with in the water, little by little, without interrupting your sailing. As you're in SF, you have a nice long sailing season so you won't miss much of it doing the repairs now. Just my 2 cents.

A quick side story. A friend of mine bought a Dufour 35 that was rather neglected. He couldn't stand the sight of the boat in such a state and went ahead and painted the boat, got a new mainsail, new sail covers and other cosmetics. He blew his budget before he really had a chance to see all the problems. As it turned out, the main problem was the many leaks, which he should have dealt with first, before anything else. The boat is now literally waterlogged and rotten (decks, bulkheads, cushions etc.). The moral of the story is: do what is essential for safety or maintaining the integrity of the boat first (to "contain" further decay), and then set about doing the rest at your leisure and as money allows.

On a positive note, a boat like yours will be easy to maintain and will cost quite a bit less to bring up to bristol condition than a larger boat. It will also be one heck of a nice boat! Post those pics!
06-19-2013 12:34 PM
agent9
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
That's a lovely boat Agent9. Congratulations.

If it's not a budget killer, it is a good idea to remove the mast. With the mast down you can take off all the rigging and bring it to a rigger to make the new rigging. Also, it will give you a chance to thoroughly check everything attached to the mast, remove and re-attach whatever shows signs of corrosion, inspect and replace the sheaves at the mast head and, if you don't already have one, install a PVC pipe conduit inside the mast for the new wiring. Check the lights and VHF antenna as well. All this is easy with the mast on the ground.
SF boat works is $200 an hour for the crane billed in half hour increments, I assume I can do the prep and get it off in an hour, but not sure. I think I am going to consult with a few riggers and see what their recommendation / preferred process is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
The lifelines you can replace with pieces of the old rigging. They will be much stronger than the original plastic coated lines.
Great idea! I love this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
I would think installing a new bilge pump and automatic switch should be a priority (not expensive). Then inspecting and repacking the stuffing box. Change all the hose clamps on the stuffing box regardless of their appearance. You can replace the stuffing in the water, but it is more difficult, Pre-cut the packing flax so you can work quickly when you pull out the old packing. I recommend the gortex packing that is pretty much dripless.
The bilge might be a project this weekend, I really want to hold off on a haul out to do the whole stuffing box, and I feel like that is the safest approach. The bolts themselves look a bit nasty (might just be grease and salt water all over them) and I dont know what I would do if the bolt snapped / stripped / etc when I was monkeying with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
Next I would inspect every through-hull, hose, hose clamp (just replace with new) and the steering cables, sheaves and anything else hidden away. At this point you can be confident that your boat is safe.
I have inspected everything from the interior, I see evidence of tiny dribbles on a couple of the through hulls, nothing that wouldn't evaporate before hitting the bilge. When I do hall the boat out (hoping to get an idea of how the bottom paint is looking when I have the hull cleaned at the end of this week so I can assess) I will do a thorough inspection of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copacabana View Post
Then go sailing and see what else needs attention.

Post some pics when you can!
I REALLY want to be out sailing instead of doing mental calculations of what its going to cost me to get the boat there

Thanks again for all the feedback.
06-19-2013 09:14 AM
copacabana
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

That's a lovely boat Agent9. Congratulations.

If it's not a budget killer, it is a good idea to remove the mast. With the mast down you can take off all the rigging and bring it to a rigger to make the new rigging. Also, it will give you a chance to thoroughly check everything attached to the mast, remove and re-attach whatever shows signs of corrosion, inspect and replace the sheaves at the mast head and, if you don't already have one, install a PVC pipe conduit inside the mast for the new wiring. Check the lights and VHF antenna as well. All this is easy with the mast on the ground.

The lifelines you can replace with pieces of the old rigging. They will be much stronger than the original plastic coated lines.

I would think installing a new bilge pump and automatic switch should be a priority (not expensive). Then inspecting and repacking the stuffing box. Change all the hose clamps on the stuffing box regardless of their appearance. You can replace the stuffing in the water, but it is more difficult, Pre-cut the packing flax so you can work quickly when you pull out the old packing. I recommend the gortex packing that is pretty much dripless.

Next I would inspect every through-hull, hose, hose clamp (just replace with new) and the steering cables, sheaves and anything else hidden away. At this point you can be confident that your boat is safe. Then go sailing and see what else needs attention.

Post some pics when you can!
06-19-2013 03:10 AM
mbetter
Re: new to me 1969 Cheoy Lee Offshore 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
If it was me, I’d get all new rigging before I sail the boat on windy San Francisco Bay. This is not a “home handyman” type of a job – you lack the tooling to do this job.
It could be done by a diligent home handyman if you use mechanical connectors like Norsemans on one (probably deck) end. Get somebody to swage masthead fittings on to wires that are longer than you need, cut them and install the Norsemans to match the length of the old rigging.

Not that this is the necessarily the best way to do it, but I did all of mine last year and it wasn't all that hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Life lines also need to be machine swaged. Don’t do this yourself unless you have plenty of insurance.
There are plenty of threads here about doing synthetic lifelines with some kind of dyneema line. I'm just finishing mine up right now and I couldn't be happier. No specialized fittings or connections, just a few simple deadeyes and a whole bunch of splicing and lashing.
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