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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Atomic 4
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Thread: Atomic 4 Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-03-2013 07:28 PM
mark2gmtrans
Re: Atomic 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Thanks for the links. It appears that with the money I would save by purchasing a new A4 Gasoline engine V/S the diesel counterpart, I would have enough money to motor to the Key West and back at least twice, based upon my recent trip gasoline costs.

Cheers,

Gary
Long term the diesel is the better deal, it will give you far more torque, which as you know is what drives the boat, for the fuel you use, and that is what makes them more efficient. Also when you do good maintenance, which I know you would do, the diesel will just be far less trouble to operate. There are no spark plugs, and no ignition system to screw up, and they take a beating a little better. I know that I personally would feel more comfortable making a long passage with diesel than I would with gasoline. I can work on either one, and have no issues with that part, but the diesel option brings the value of the boat up more than the gasoline for a reason.

One option I left out was repowering with a rebuilt diesel, which I can get on Ebay or a few other places for around $2,500.00 complete with transmission. The Beta and the Yanmar both came with the transmission for that price.
07-03-2013 06:16 PM
travlineasy
Re: Atomic 4

Thanks for the links. It appears that with the money I would save by purchasing a new A4 Gasoline engine V/S the diesel counterpart, I would have enough money to motor to the Key West and back at least twice, based upon my recent trip gasoline costs.

Cheers,

Gary
07-03-2013 04:26 PM
mark2gmtrans
Re: Atomic 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
From everything I've read diesel is, on average, about 12 percent more efficient than gasoline, and according to GM's Director of Advanced Global Engineering, Uwe Grebe, that gap is narrowing rapidly with changes in internal combustion engine technology. And, in in the next decade, diesel and gasoline engines will likely be equal in overall efficiency. Diesel is NOT 30 percent more efficient. If it was indeed that much more efficient than gasoline, every automobile and truck in the world would be diesel powered.

Now, prices have increased dramatically over the years at Moyer Marine for the cost of rebuilding an A4. Keep in mind, though, that when it comes to purchasing an A4, they're the only game in town. When my Morgan's A4 was replaced in 2002, the cost, including engine removal and installation, was $2,200 for the remanufactured engine. Today, that same engine goes for nearly $4,800. A brand new engine, which I believe includes the transmission, goes for about $6,500 from Moyer. The brand new engine uses a block manufactured by another company that is quite similar to the old Universal block.

Despite several internet searches, I've not been successful in finding the price of a Yanmar 30HP diesel marine engine. So, if someone has some valid information on this, I would like to see a posted link to the price of either the Yanmar 3YM30 or something similar in another brand that would be comparable to the A4 engine specifications.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary, here is the link you asked for on an A4 diesel replacement from Beta marine the 30HP is $9,620.63

These are brand new and the price you would pay is actually lower than what is posted.
Diesel Engines : Beta Marine West, Beta Marine West Online Store

The best I could do on the Yanmar was this one in Brittish pounds at £6,562.80 inc VAT which works out to $10,016.80 USD



Yanmar 3YM30 marine diesel engine 29hp - French Marine Motors Ltd
07-03-2013 12:24 PM
travlineasy
Re: Atomic 4

From everything I've read diesel is, on average, about 12 percent more efficient than gasoline, and according to GM's Director of Advanced Global Engineering, Uwe Grebe, that gap is narrowing rapidly with changes in internal combustion engine technology. And, in in the next decade, diesel and gasoline engines will likely be equal in overall efficiency. Diesel is NOT 30 percent more efficient. If it was indeed that much more efficient than gasoline, every automobile and truck in the world would be diesel powered.

Now, prices have increased dramatically over the years at Moyer Marine for the cost of rebuilding an A4. Keep in mind, though, that when it comes to purchasing an A4, they're the only game in town. When my Morgan's A4 was replaced in 2002, the cost, including engine removal and installation, was $2,200 for the remanufactured engine. Today, that same engine goes for nearly $4,800. A brand new engine, which I believe includes the transmission, goes for about $6,500 from Moyer. The brand new engine uses a block manufactured by another company that is quite similar to the old Universal block.

Despite several internet searches, I've not been successful in finding the price of a Yanmar 30HP diesel marine engine. So, if someone has some valid information on this, I would like to see a posted link to the price of either the Yanmar 3YM30 or something similar in another brand that would be comparable to the A4 engine specifications.

Cheers,

Gary
07-03-2013 12:18 PM
sailpower
Re: Atomic 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalina-Lona View Post
Thanks All,

Gary your comments are appreciated. I made a mistake in my original posting. The sail drives are c/w omc inboard.
My price range is anywhere between 5k and 9k. Any of the boats we have looked at are for their age, priced right or the owners truly believe they will get their inflated price. The cosmetics don't really bother me, it's the mech. and struct. issues that I don't want.
I'm glad to hear different opinions on gas vs. diesels and glad not to hear of any explosions either. You really can tell those owners who maintain any of their equipment?
The way some folks show their boat is truly questionable!

Cheers,
Gas vs diesel is one discussion but sail drive vs shaft drive is a whole nother topic!

I havenít read much good about sail drives particularly the older ones.
07-03-2013 10:16 AM
Minnewaska
Re: Atomic 4

I agree with, Mark. The story you learn about how she was cared for is even more important than what a survey find wrong in the moment. You want to know how sturdy she might be going forward and her care and feeding over time is the only indicator.
07-03-2013 09:57 AM
mark2gmtrans
Re: Atomic 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalina-Lona View Post
Thanks All,

Gary your comments are appreciated. I made a mistake in my original posting. The sail drives are c/w omc inboard.
My price range is anywhere between 5k and 9k. Any of the boats we have looked at are for their age, priced right or the owners truly believe they will get their inflated price. The cosmetics don't really bother me, it's the mech. and struct. issues that I don't want.
I'm glad to hear different opinions on gas vs. diesels and glad not to hear of any explosions either. You really can tell those owners who maintain any of their equipment?
The way some folks show their boat is truly questionable!

Cheers,
One thing I look at when I am searching for a boat is the photos that the owner took when he posted it for sale. If the boat is an absolute mess, stuff just laying around, not stowed away properly, and it looks like a laundry hamper and a dish bin barfed into the boat, I think maybe the guy did not maintain his boat very well. Especially live aboard boats, if you live there and you cannot put things away and clean up in order to take a photo....well that just is not good.

I can deal with just about any mechanical issues, but what I do not want to deal with is having every circuit owner engineered in a shoddy fashion, or finding the hull has not been cleaned or maintained in 5 years and it has not moved in 8 years. That would cause me to walk away, that and an OMC saildrive.

Mark
07-03-2013 05:16 AM
Kalina-Lona
Re: Atomic 4

Thanks All,

Gary your comments are appreciated. I made a mistake in my original posting. The sail drives are c/w omc inboard.
My price range is anywhere between 5k and 9k. Any of the boats we have looked at are for their age, priced right or the owners truly believe they will get their inflated price. The cosmetics don't really bother me, it's the mech. and struct. issues that I don't want.
I'm glad to hear different opinions on gas vs. diesels and glad not to hear of any explosions either. You really can tell those owners who maintain any of their equipment?
The way some folks show their boat is truly questionable!

Cheers,
07-01-2013 01:32 PM
yossarian
Re: Atomic 4

I've had both and they're both fine as long as they're in good shape.

Short answer is that there's no reason to rule out an A4. You should make the decision based on the quality of the boat and engine, not on the nameplate in this case. In fact, depending on the model, I might rule out the Yanmar - I had one of those little one-cyl 10hp jobbers and it sucked. Loud and underpowered. A4s can work fine if they've been well-kept and judiciously upgraded. They can be a real pain in the ass if not - but that's true of any engine. Parts are easy to come by and relatively cheap.

Unless one of the engines is in really good (recent rebuild or repower) or really bad (in need of work/rebuild) shape, or if the Yanmar is one of the small 8-10 hp models (not enough for a 28' boat), I'd consider it a tossup and make your decision on other grounds...
07-01-2013 12:16 PM
Sanduskysailor
Re: Atomic 4

I had a A-4 on a Sabre 28 for 22 years and a Yanmar 2gm on a C&C for 4 years. Both have pros and cons. If the Yanmar is FWC then it is a big plus. If it is the one cylinder gm10 or gm8 you won't like the noise and vibration. An 81 Mirage 27 probably has one of the last A-4s built. Provided that all of the engines are in good shape here are some things to consider: the Northern is a bit pinched in the ends and would be a little twitchy with a following sea. The Marine 28 is similar to a Sabre 28 and potentially is the fastest of the bunch. The Mirage is a bit slower than the Mariner. All 3 could be an acceptable first boat depending on their condition and your maintenance skills and/or resources.
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