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Pros and cons of steel sailboats

911K views 5K replies 127 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
 
#61 ·
Tanley, forgot your other question.
I've enjoyed the lake much this summer in the best scenerio possible- on other people's boats. Love doing that. With our one year old and a busy work year we kept our Tartan 37 on the hard up in Beacon Bay marina at the north end of the lake. I think it's a bit too much for the lake and I'm going to either take it up the east coast or to the great lakes for some more extended cruise time in the summer.
 
#65 ·
Gotta chime in on why people go from small aluminum boats to relatively larger fiberglass one's especially fishing boats. I'm from MN and have had both. Now I've converted to sailing a 27' fiberglass boat on Tampa Bay.

Aluminum fishing boats...ie Lund, Alumacraft, are less expensive than a similar sized fiberglass boat. They are easy to trailer so you can take it with your light truck or crossover SUV to whichever of the 10k lakes in MN you want to fish that day.

Since they are lighter they ride really rough. Eventually the walleye or bass fisherman get's tired of taking a pounding and buys a bigger truck and a fiberglass fishing boat. They are not at all concerned about hitting a submerged shipping container and sinking 1000 miles out in the ocean. They do care about how much drier the ride is on the heavier boat.

Do what I'm saying is that you're not comparing apples to apples. I do wonder sometimes why they don't build smaller aluminum sailboats though.
 
#68 ·
Gotta chime in on why people go from small aluminum boats to relatively larger fiberglass one's especially fishing boats. I'm from MN and have had both. Now I've converted to sailing a 27' fiberglass boat on Tampa Bay.

Aluminum fishing boats...ie Lund, Alumacraft, are less expensive than a similar sized fiberglass boat. They are easy to trailer so you can take it with your light truck or crossover SUV to whichever of the 10k lakes in MN you want to fish that day.

Since they are lighter they ride really rough. Eventually the walleye or bass fisherman get's tired of taking a pounding and buys a bigger truck and a fiberglass fishing boat. They are not at all concerned about hitting a submerged shipping container and sinking 1000 miles out in the ocean. They do care about how much drier the ride is on the heavier boat.
This is exactly the answer I was looking for. Your experience with aluminum boats mirrors my experience and likewise that of most aluminum boat owners.

It clearly illustrates why big aluminum boats are not popular. And it goes directly to the root of the discussion of this thread. The OP clearly mentions both aluminum and steel boats. He is looking for the experienced opinion of metal boat owners.
Bryce
 
#75 ·
"When the first 2 -36 foters I built went out on race day in San diego, they left some of the race boats far behind,"

This is a total crock! You are delusional. Unless you mean your boats beat a few Sabots and Lido 14's. That I would accept. My FT10m would literally sail circles around any of your boats effortlessly. What proof can you offer for your claim? Race results?

Do you think the rest of us know nothing about the capabilities of modern racing yachts? You truly must think us stupid. But I think we have that well established.
 
#76 ·
Maybe the race boats had there storm sails up as practice or requirement for the first 10 miles, after than they blew by them!

Saw an older full keel gaff schooner trying to sail thru cattle pass yesterday. he got thru, but with no wind, and a 3 knot current pushing him. After that, pretty slow looking vs a more modern sloop sailing in 8-10 knots of breeze across the straight. Not sure what the final distance difference was, as I went west to deception pass.

Probably an hr or two or three in 20 miles!

Marty
 
#77 · (Edited)
Cruisers like Nothing Wong are the ones giving us (other cruisers) a bad name around the World. Have met the type myself and they constantly scrounged tools, help, meals etc. - Even though I obviously were living on a shoestring myself, that type never returned the favor, nor the tools. :mad:

Brent is clearly delusional, saying the 2 hours and 50 bucks a year can keep a steel boat in good nick - unless he's an idle thieving bast... similar to the type discussed above.
Remember Brent, I've worked on a steel fisherman - when we were not fishing we were forever cleaning, sanding, and painting - Admitting that they probably had a rougher life than most, it is still applicable to cruisers.

Guess your answer will be that they were not put together in 2 days using origami karate man of steel methods thus were inferior quality and that we were stupid to trust our lives to the skipper and boat.

Luckily - I guess - the insane ramblings of Mr. Swain has put more people of his boats, unluckily it may impact well built steel boats as well.

/Joms
 
#78 ·
Joms:
Remember Brent thinks we believe:
"When the first 2 -36 foters I built went out on race day in San diego, they left some of the race boats far behind,"

So, if he think we belive that then we should belive you can maintain your steel boat for 2 hours and $50 a year. Hold on,,,is that $50 Canadian? $50 a year wouldn't maintain my own 26'er. I needed at least $53.

In short, his claim is another absurd lie.
Reminds me of that old R&B tune, I PITY THE FOOL.
 
#81 · (Edited by Moderator)
Pauls boat is taking him forever because it is a 57 footer, not a 36 footer, far more complex multi chine, not my single chine, and definitely not a shape I would ever design.Paul ended up married to a landlubber, and so the boat goes for months sometimes years, with nothing being done on her. Do your boats finish themselves if left out in the rain long enough?
(Abuse deleted)
I leave the lying to those who tell people it is worth their expense to pay them decades worth of cruising funds to draw pictures for them.
I only helped Clive get the shell of Nuthin Wong together,from an old Chinese design he gave me, not my design, for a trade, the rest was his department, not mine. Bob ,do you have complete control over how your boats end up being maintained and used? Nuthin Wong just spent 4 1/2 months on a reef in Panama, pounded by ocean swells, zero hull damage. How long would one of to your dainty little plastic things have lasted in those conditions.
I gave my 31 footer,30 gallons of epoxy at the outset, inside and out, along with a lot of marine enamel. All outside corners are trimed with stainless. I that the case with the other boats whioch people are complaining about maintenance on? Commercial boats often get a couple of coats of tremclad outside , zero paint inside,then complain about maintenance.
My 29 year od paint job is as good as the day I put it on, except for the odd paint chip, where I do my 2 hours year on touch up. Any time you have serious problems in the middle of a flat spot on a steel hull , your paint was not thick enough to begin with. Any time you can see the weld pattern thru the paint, it was not thick enough to begin with.
Most maintenance problems on steel boats are caused by inadequate cleaning and sandblasting of the steel and not enough epoxy over it. When a boat gets to that stage , sandblasting and at least 5 coats of epoxy tar on the outside three inside and a UV resistant coat over that wil eliminate most of the maintenace for decades.
 
#93 · (Edited)
Remember Porky Pig rolling on the ground laughing? That's me.

You are pretty funny dude. I will definitely give you that.

As I've always said, I do respect your ingenuity and recycling approach. Absolutely. But I no longer believe anything you say about your oragami boats.

As far as I'm concerned, building a steel boat is a great thing to do if the owner wants it - and knows what he's getting into in terms of the substantial technical, financial and time requirements involved. The S/V Seeker folks show that.

But for that Cruiser Wannabe to know what they're getting into, I certainly don't think they should listen your very questionable pitch as given in these threads. There's too much evidence out there to the contrary.

Mmmmm. Kimchi.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Brent I have explained exactly how you have lied over and over. Please do me the favor and in accurate quotes show me where I lied. If you can't provide the quotes the STFU.

"Nuthin Wong just spent 4 1/2 months on a reef in Panama, " I'm sure it did. Seems a common theme with your boats. You seem proud of it.

I am beginning formulate a theory as to why so many of Brents boats are docuented as spending time on the rocks.
 
#84 · (Edited)
Clives Time on a med reef is documented in his last book "No Fixed Address" A good read ,hard to put down. His time on the Panama reef in Boca de Toros will be covered in his next book. Or if you know anyone in Bocan de Toros, they can confirm it. A "Friend" who he left to look after her, towed it on the reef so his friends could strip her. He had to stay in Canada to get his pension in order. They only recently got her off.
I'l ask him to post the videos here when I get in contact with him again.
Bob you are a liar when you claim that a carbon fibre rudder at huge expense is a good idea for the average cruiser, when you claim that style over substance is a good priority fir the average cruiser,or you claim that you actually earn the $34000 for drawing pictures of boats , when some can buy a whole boat and go cruising for a year for less money,and you give this advice with little or no offshore cruising experience and zero hands on boatbuilding expereince. You lie when you imply that with zero experience owning and maintaining a steel boat, you know more about the costs of doing so, than someone who has owned, designed, built and maintained steel boats for 37 years. Then you follow it up with the childish, adolecent jeering of a 13 year old .
 
#94 ·
What Mediterranean reef?

While not exactly a tree-hugger, and against too much regulation, I DO believe that we should take care of Mother Earth, and the skipper of Nothing Wong is apparently trying his best to destroy reefs and leak Diesel everywhere so should be stopped.

/Joms
 
#85 ·
Aluminium boaters have a constant struggle finding effective antifouling which wont eat their boats with electrolysis. My aluminium dinghy got so hoit in Tonga that I had to paint the back of the bottom white so it wouldnt burn my feet. Freinds living on a bare aluminium boat there had to wait til 3 am before it cooled down enough to let them sleep.
Steel has mnore rust problems above the waterline where you can se it . Aluminiumn has more corrosion problems below the waterline, where it takes you by surprise and happens much more quickly when it does.
Waterline yachts built some of the few properly built steel boats here, at horrendous prices, due to outdated building methods.
Amazons were 10 guiage plate welded one side only , and most of that weld ground off for cosmetic reasons, leaving the thickness of a beer can to hold things together, Stringers were held in one case at least, by a half inch tack every three feet. Eric and ex cop I knew, bought one on the conditioin that there be no primer put on. They primed it anyway and when he blasted it, he found very thick filler, the only thing which made her fair .
 
#86 · (Edited)
Brent:
Chill. You are making stuff up again.

I'll say it slowly:
Provide me with the exact quote where I "lie" and then we can discuss it. I want to see the quote. Not your BS interpritation of it.

My reality is just fine. I have no need to lie. What do I have to prove? I've done it. Been there and I have so many of the T shirts.

It's Sunday night.
Steaks are marinating in a Kalbi sauce
Crabbing was good today so I will have crab on my saled and crab for breakfast. (Truth be told I like MacDonalds egg/sausage/cheese/Mcgriddle).
I am a weak man.

I don't really think I want tp spend the rest of a beautiful Sunday arguing with angry little Brent.

CBC 2 is on. Randy Bachman's show is about to begin.
I'm as happy as I can possibly be considering the light of my life is gone.
Now there was a steel worker. A true artist in steel.
 

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#87 ·
It's Sunday night.
Steaks are marinating in a Kalbi sauce
Crabbing was good today so I will have crab on my saled and crab for breakfast. (Truth be told I like MacDonalds egg/sausage/cheese/Mcgriddle).
I am a weak man.

Oh its all good Bob.Any kimchi and have you tried the bacon chalupa from KFC?.Its a weapon of mass destruction.
 
#88 ·
Peoples .... please stop the "liar" business. Claim specific statements are untrue by all means but don't call others "liars".

Do carry on.

Andrew B
 
#89 ·
Jak:
I love kimchee. I have a client who is married to a Korean gal, Bokhee. He sister makes kimchee. He radish kimchee is marvelous.

I have to admit that stuck up here at the shack my lunch menu is minimal. So,,,I buy Top Ramen. I know, I know, but if you add some green onions left over meat (anykind) some brocolli, spinach and a big wad of kimchee on top along with some Chinese chili paste it can be quite satisfying.

I am a simple man.
 
#90 ·
Love Kimchi in all its varieties. Korean family opened a restaurant just down the road from us a couple of years back and it has become a Wombat stamping ground.

I flew Korean Air last time I went to Europe and if you get a touch peckish in the middle of the night they'll bring you a bowl of Bipimbap. How good is that ?
 
#96 · (Edited)
Clive has hit two reefs in 21 years of full time cruising around the world, one in the Balerics when he was aboard and one when he was thousands of miles away, and thief towed her onto a reef. Of the 38 boats I have built, the same number by Evan and all the many others people built for themselves, only 5 have had major collisions with reefs and lee shores . Sure, lots of people do circumnavigations in plastic and wooden boats with no problems . Some dissapear without a trace. One plastic boat I was tied to for a month, hit a container off Costa Rica and sunk in minutes, something which wouldnt have happened had she been steel. The owner immediately began planning to build in steel.
You can disregard the comments of Bob Perry anbd Smackdaddy, neither of whom has any experence in cruising in and maintaining a steel boat, yet both of whom claim to know more about the subject than someone who has built 38 steel boats and has maintained his own steel boats for 37 years. A sistership to Smackdaddys boat anchored in front of me last nite, a catalina 27, six inch side decks cluttered by chainplates , knee high super thin stainless stanchions held down by three tiny bolts each, with plastic coated wire lifelines a recipe for crevice corrosion. Definitely not intelligent design, chosen by someone displaying a similar abysmal lack of intelligence.
While many are out happily cruising in steel boats down to 26 feet, making passages times in the same time frame as most plastic boats, self proclaimed "Experts " on steel boats, who have zero expereince in the subject at hand, are declaring it "Wont work in smaller boats" ( Sorta like aeronautic experts of the past telling bees that, theoretically they cant fly)
I see that, after decades of painting rusty anchor recesses every time they came into port , cruise ship operators( Slow experts ) have finally clued in and are lining such surfaces with stainless, eliminating the problem once and for all. I do the same where the anchor dings the bow paint ,instead of the yachtie absurdity of ever longer and flimseir bow rollers. Ditto other wear points, something anyone with zero expereince maintaining a steel boat couldnt possibly comprehend
Commercial boats can do the same, and reduce maintenace greatly, by taking out the rail pipes etc, where it gets the paint knocked off repeatedly, and replacing such parts with stainess, for a fraction the cost of trying hopelessly to keep paint on them. Many of my newer boats have been going for all stainless bulkwark caps, instead of the yachtie absurdity of teak over steel. Where there are pulp mills there is cheap scrap stainless, some of the best in the world (unless you are like Bob, too snobby and pretentious to be that practical and resourceful)
My clients have had no complaints about maintenance, in fact they all say they have very little to do. I met a guy in New Zealand ( Nelson) who had a steel Matangi motorsailer he had built in Australia. He said that, after years of owning wood and fibreglass boats, he was amazed at how little mainenance his steel boat took.
Those who tell you they have tons of maintenance on their steel boats simply havent figured it out yet, and are thus a poor source of information on the subject. You'd be better off to get your advice from someone who has little maintenace on his steel boat.
I found out that, after owning my current steeel boat for 29 years I have learned a lot about designing and building for easy maitenance, than I had learned after owning my last steel boat for only 11 years. My current boat is in beter shape after 29 years than my last was in after only 11 years. People with zero expereince on the subject have zero knowledge or credibility. They simply repeat the disinformation spread by those trying to sell you plastic boats, or those perpetual screwups with screwed up paint jobs and planning on their steel boats
 
#98 · (Edited)
You can disregard the comments of Bob Perry anbd Smackdaddy, neither of whom has any experence in cruising in and maintaining a steel boat, yet both of whom claim to know more about the subject than someone who has built 38 steel boats and has maintained his own steel boats for 37 years.
Bob, my sincere apologies for the above sentence. It is, indeed, hilarious. But, even disregarding Brent's psychobabble, your reputation has nonetheless officially been sullied by the very proximity of your fine name next to mine in the same sentence.

Heh-heh.

Brent, I own a Hunter 40, you chucklehead.



The C27 was so yesterday. Keep up son!

(PS - I noticed you've not been able to come up with that quote you said I said on stuff, even after I provided you the links. Hmm. Does someone owe me an apology?)
 
#97 ·
I trust my own experiences first and foremost, and the experiences of some of my personal friends that has many many years of cruising all over the World. And that experience tells me that Mr. Perry has something going for him (and SmackDaddy way less :p). But this has nothing to do with having Bob Perry design a new boat, but about the plethora of GRP cruising boats (to his design and many other talented designers) that can take you crusing for next to nothing in comfort and safety.
What ticked me off with your comments is that everything you say implies that those of us that cruise in boats of any other material than steel are risking the lives of our loved ones and ourself. And we don't!

I have also learned the hard way which other cruisers to avoid, and Nuthin Wong ticks all the boxes.

/Joms
 
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