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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Our New Boat
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-18-2013 05:20 PM
welshwind
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Welshwind - She likes to sail around 10-15 degrees heel. She is the happiest at this heel angle.
We did some heavy weather sailing over Thanksgiving, for those that didn't see the Youtube video over at BFS thread here is a short video of that going downwind: Moondance Downwind Sail - YouTube
The first part of the video is sideways. It corrects it self after the first minute. Still learning how to shoot video.
Thanks for the information ... I CANNOT WAIT!!! It is the antsiest I've been waiting for sailing season to start up here.

The BFS sail looked like a lot of fun.
12-15-2013 02:52 PM
IStream
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
I started a new one. Work in progress until after the holidays
Great, looking forward to it.
12-15-2013 02:02 PM
Melrna
Re: Our New Boat

I started a new one. Work in progress until after the holidays
12-15-2013 01:01 PM
IStream
Re: Our New Boat

Hi Melissa,

You gonna restart your blog now that you've got your new vessel?

Thanks.
12-15-2013 12:01 AM
Melrna
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by xort View Post
Pleasure meeting you and your crew in Fernandina. Nice boat!
Like wise. Love meeting up with Sailneters. Wish we could have travel south together.


I am glad to hear the other stories out there. We can all learn from each other's experience. This is were I believe Sailnet shines and is at it finest.

There are so many seamanship lessons here I wish I was more apt at making instruction videos like Alex did back in the day. Paulo brings up a good point on when the seas get real ugly and wind blowing hard and you are running downwind why you might not be able to turn the boat into the wind. The biggest danger here is broach with breaking waves. Probably the worst position one can be in. The physic's of this would make a great discussion. Sail management, different hull forms, CLE, CLR, rudder size, etc. I even envision Mr Perry getting a few words in on this.
12-14-2013 04:37 PM
PCP
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
I would have preferred the Genoa over the main in this situation. Going DDW would require for the most part a poled out Genoa and I don't have the pole set up just yet. ...
...My bad for not reefing the main earlier when I had all 4 crew members in the beginning.
...
Melrna I know that not all the boats are the same but maybe its of some use I share a bad experience that happened to me regarding a similar situation (well, not really) some years back while sailing from Africa to Portugal, out of the Gibraltar Strait:

The forecast was F7 but it was downwind sailing and I was pretty familiar with my boat, a Bavaria 36 so I went out of Ceuta bound to Portugal.

I was sailing with two reefs on the main and a shortened Genoa with about 30k wind going fast and well. Everybody was having a good time.

Then the wind increased again and I put the third reef on the main and reduced the front sail further... and some time later the unexpected happened and the wind increase again to about 40K and I made a mistake: 40K was already more than what was forecasted so I thought that it would not go stronger and I maintained the main and took out the genoa...... some time later the wind increased a lot, I don't know 50K or more and I was not able to maintain the main, even on the third reef. Too much lateral pressure and the boat keep turning to the wind on the gusts making me lose control from time to time.

The sea was very agitated and even with the help of the crew and the engine it took three attempts to turn the boat to the wind. Turning a boat to the wind in very strong wind without a head sail and with a main on can be a big problem, specially if the engine is not very powerful

Regards

Paulo
12-14-2013 03:27 PM
TakeFive
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
...Right after I shot this video we lost the main steering. This is a story in itself...
6. Steering cable. When this happened I was very upset and still am. I know that after time the steering cable will stretch. But not after only 4 sails. I am blaming Catalina and the dealer for NOT adjusting the steering cables properly during commissioning. This put the crew and boat in danger. Remember. the Salty Dog rally, two Catalina's (38'&42') lost steering too. Not sure yet if this is a design defect out of Edson/Catalina or not properly maintain cable tension. I am voting for the later. So for the rest of you, if there is any slop in the wheel get your cables adjusted. You shouldn't be able to move the wheel right or left without the rudder moving...
I hope everyone can learn from this experience...
In the interest of helping others learn, I'll share my similar experience. My boat is much smaller, and the steering system is a smaller, simpler, lighter weight pull-pull cable system. So it's not exactly relevant to your design, but there may be some similar issues.

A couple years ago my chain jumped a sprocket in a relatively mild (15 kt) blow. The cable tension seemed fine, so I did some research. It turns out that my pull-pull system relies on an aluminum bracket to provide compression on the cable sheaths that must completely counteract the tension of the cables themselves. In a good blow, that aluminum bracket is known to flex a little bit, which can lower cable tension and cause the chain to jump. Tightening the cable tension does not fully fix this problem - the best fix is to stiffen the aluminum bracket. The problem was easily solved with an appropriately sized 1x3:


This past May I got caught in heavy following seas in the middle of the Delaware Bay. Not as bad as you had, but relative to my boat's size they were pretty big. (FWIW, I chose to run on jib alone to avoid an accidental gybe.) I had to use both hands to pull the wheel hard port after every swell/breaker, otherwise I would have broached. Every time I pulled that wheel, I said to myself, "I'm sure glad I reinforced my steering bracket." Otherwise, I am sure I would have lost my steering. Instead, the steering held up, without a single jumped sprocket.

Moral of the story: Increasing cable tension may not be the right answer for jumping sprockets. Check your steering design and see if there is flexing of the support components that could be solved by reinforcement.
12-14-2013 02:16 PM
xort
Re: Our New Boat

Pleasure meeting you and your crew in Fernandina. Nice boat!
12-14-2013 12:17 PM
Melrna
Re: Our New Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Nice sailing. You are going almost dead downwind. Do you prefer on your boat on that position the main over the Genoa?

Regards

Paulo
I would have preferred the Genoa over the main in this situation. Going DDW would require for the most part a poled out Genoa and I don't have the pole set up just yet. The dealer is taking his sweet time getting the track on the mast..
The danger in just running the main out of course is an accidental gybe and broach. It takes some skill not to let this happen. First, the main has to be trimmed so as the bow falls off the wave it points into the wind (trim the main into the wind; tighten it up and traveller midship). Second, boom preventer attached ( you will see the red sheet lead aft in the video). Third a good helms person able to recognize and steer the boat properly.
We were over canvas for this sail. I should have put a reef in the mainsail. Having said that, we didn't for some good and bad reasons. First, I had two crew members real seasick. Jenn and I were both not feeling all the great ourselves. Turning the boat into the wind and waves to reef should have been done but I felt that would have been more of a problem than just running the way we did considering our situation. This later proved to be a good decision because when we did roll the main in, the furling line broke. I needed all hands on deck to roll the main in at the mast. (wind was blowing a steady 25 knots).
Right after I shot this video we lost the main steering. This is a story in itself. Remember this is a new boat. The following seas put a great deal pressure on the big spade rudder this boat has. Jenn and I both took turns steering this boat every 20 mins. We did not put the autopilot on due to my concerns on a accidental gybe ( we tried it out in the beginning and did OK but not to my satisfaction, more on this later). The chain around the sprocket on the starboard side jumped off. We had a warning about 10 mins before this happened when we both heard a loud bang coming from the steering. This was the chain slipping on the chain sprocket. We didn't know it at the time. I thought we hid something. When Jenn called out to me she couldn't steer, I put the autopilot on and headed up into the wind 20 degrees to be out of the DDW situation. (The below deck autopilot is independent of the wheel steering in most sailboats). The boat steered fine with the autopilot so I knew right away that I had a cable problem. Seen this before a few times racing. I quickly got out the tool box and opened up the top of the steering pedestal to find the chain off the sprocket. I got the chain back on. Now I had to adjust the cable in a heaving deck under the starboard transom locker. With Jenn holding me by my pants (there are pictures of this I will not share) I had to hang upside down to tighten the cables. Once that was done we were back in business san bruised, tired and mad as heck).
So lessons learned:
1. NOAA and all the other wx sites I use were wrong on sea state and wind forecast. They all called for 3.5' seas, wind 10-15 knots. When I got out into the ocean we had 5' seas, 3 secs spacing and wind 15-20 knots, one hour later seas 5-9' wind 20 knots gusting to 28. I should have ducked back into the ICW at this point (a 30 min into the wind and sea state for the St Simons inlet vs 90 min run to the next inlet. You make the call).
2. Sea sickness- I lost 2 crew members after one hour. One got real sick and the other on the verge. Jenn and I both were a little under the weather. We all tried the one ear plug in the non-dominate ear. It worked for 3 of us.
3. My bad for not reefing the main earlier when I had all 4 crew members in the beginning.
4. Boat handling in rough seas. I wanted to see how this boat could handle the seas. She did great except for the mechanical problems. There were so many lessons learned here, in too many ways it was a great learning experience close to shore vs out in the middle of nowhere. Best to find out now before we cut the docklines this summer. One reason I did what I did.
5. I also wanted to see push this crew to see where we were. Some would say "my bad", but others would say need to know now on a very short cruise like this before bigger adventures are planned. I have been sailing with this crew on/off now for some 7 years. That night at sundowners we went over the lessons learned. It was a full bottle of rum night (23 year old).
6. Steering cable. When this happened I was very upset and still am. I know that after time the steering cable will stretch. But not after only 4 sails. I am blaming Catalina and the dealer for NOT adjusting the steering cables properly during commissioning. This put the crew and boat in danger. Remember. the Salty Dog rally, two Catalina's (38'&42') lost steering too. Not sure yet if this is a design defect out of Edson/Catalina or not properly maintain cable tension. I am voting for the later. So for the rest of you, if there is any slop in the wheel get your cables adjusted. You shouldn't be able to move the wheel right or left without the rudder moving.
a. What we did right. Autopilot on. If works it is a cable problem, If it doesn't it is a real bad problem; autopilot steering arm locked up, broken rudder post/rudder.
b. The new Raymarine IP-70 autopilot with EVO is a wonderful thing except in one area. The "response" to course corrections. In the new system I have only 3 settings; leisure, cruise and performance. In the old ST-60, it was numbered 1-9. When running downwind, we need a bigger response time so we don't accidentally gybe. I need to further my education on this on what does performance mean compared to the old system.
I made some good and bad decisions here. I hope everyone can learn from this experience.
Melissa
BTW the crew is still going to sail with me after this experience.
12-12-2013 04:06 PM
PCP
Re: Our New Boat

Nice sailing. You are going almost dead downwind. Do you prefer on your boat on that position the main over the Genoa?

Regards

Paulo
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