SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters!

16K views 82 replies 27 participants last post by  aeventyr60 
#1 ·
I've started this thread to discuss and chronicle the issues that arise or have already arisen due to my five years having lived aboard the 42 foot ferro-cement Samson design ketch-rigged sloop the Miss Liberty, hailing from Clearwater Beach, Pinellas County, Tampa Area, Florida. Unfortunately at the time of this posting, her current condition is pretty bad, as is the legal situation I find myself in as a result of that condition. I have been forced to plead guilty to a charge of "derelict/abandoned vessel" mind you I was not responsible for her current condition, nor have I abandoned her even now. I have been sentenced to 65 days in jail SO FAR, a year probation which I have to pay a maintenance fee, 40/month I think, 450$ court fee, and as a condition of the probation I have to remove the boat within 150 days, or I will be sentenced to a YEAR in prison. The Miss Liberty was stripped, which is how she ended up in her current situation, which is a six-foot keel hard aground in 2-3 feet of water, sunk about 200 yards shoreward of serviceable water. I have about 25 more days in which I intend to appeal the decision in hopes of reversing the guilty plea, which I only put in after it became clear that Pasco County was going to do everything they could to railroad me in an attempt to squeeze every penny they could out of me with no regard to my civil rights or a sense of fair play. With that background, let the discussions and advice commence!
 
#4 ·
Your photo did not come through. Sounds like some tough luck, and with a derelict ferro cement boat you won't find much sympathy here. But if the boat ran aground in shallow water, it is your responsibility as the caretaker of the ship to keep her afloat. You are responsible for good ground tackle and even in named storms it is your responsibility. I don't know the full circumstances of why it is not your fault, but there are tons of derelict boats in Florida and they are causing lots of legislation that are limiting the rights of those who take care of there vessels.

Now liveaboard rights are something different. They are being limited unfairly in lots of places. It is because of the bad apples out there that are causing issues for lots of folks who maintain there boats. How about you explain how you got into the situation without ranting about how your rights were trampled on without any factual details. Rants never convince folks that your right. Just the facts.
 
#6 ·
The persons responsible for Miss Liberty's current condition are unknown at this time, they stripped her while she was at anchor near Anclote Key on the shoreward side by virtue of 250 yards of 3 inch chain with a 75lb. Danforth iron anchor. She was self-sufficient,reliable bilge pumps, batteries, solar and wind generators, proper decking and hatch covers,she'd remained COMFORTABLY afloat through tropical storms cum hurricanes and a tornado for over five years in the Mandalay channel, less than thirteen miles away. The Pasco County Sheriff posted her on the derelict albandoned at-risk vessel database and it was like he'd put a flag out that said 'hit me' they took EVERYTHING made of metal or containing it,all the wiring, batteries, solar panels, wind generators I invented, bilge pumps, inverters charge controllers, hatches, 8 Perko bronze(brass?) portholes, a 500 gallon stainless fuel tank from under the back deck that they ripped up to get, and probably last but most assuredly not least, the anchor (one assumes) and the 250 foot 3 inch iron anchor chain, and assorted goodies, my 90 inch wifi enabled plasma tv, 1000 watt stereo,guitars, amps, my computers and laptops, nav/sonar equipment, the entire binnacle, compass, wheel, stand all, stainless steel stove and restaurant hood and microwave, two refrigerators, a deep freezer, all of the lights and fixtutes and wiring, even (sorry, will continue in next post, ( the aluminum toilet paper roll holder.
 
#24 ·
So someone stole 750 ft. of 3 " chain. Come on....really

90 feet weighs 7650 lbs. according to the chart in the link. So they made off with 63,375 lbs. of chain if 250 yards

Even if it was 250 ft. That equals 21,250 lbs. How did they retrieve that? Did they beam it up from the spaceship hiding behind the sun? 10.5 tons of chain??????

STUD LINK ANCHOR CHAIN SPECS

You left a floating storage shed tied to the bottom with 21,250 lbs f chain and it moved? Its not a boat . How did it stay afloat when you " pulled" the chain aboard. Sounds like a lot of exaggeration here...care to send a picture?
 
  • Like
Reactions: justflie
#8 ·
My apologies if this is coming off as a rant, but as you read I hope you will recognize the intent with which it is written, I am seeking advice and perhaps help and trying to lay down a cautionary tale, there but the Grace of God kinda thing with all love of a mariner at heart. See, the fact that the anchor and chain were amongst the things stolen is tantamount, they set my girl adrift, and right when tropical storm Sandy was coming into her windup around here. I had been working in Clearwater Beach, thirteen miles to the south, half-camping ashore, only coming out every other weekend, in my 19 foot Cobia'grocery getter, an unfortunate victim at the dock during Sandy.The Pasco County Sherriff continued to call and harass me EXACTLY as he had before the storm, not giving any hint that there had been any change in her status, and I repeatedly told him she was anchored south of the Anclote River, which put her squarely in Pinellas County, and out of his jurisdiction anyways, and it wasn't until several weeks later that a Pinellas County Sheriff whom I know loosely passed word to the Clearwater Police Department's Marine Sergeant Officer Mark Cason whom I know rather well, professionally at least, he'd inspected Miss Liberty a couple times, and my favorite anchorage was less than a quarter mile from where the sheriffs and the PD both dock, that it was a situation, not just his usual illegal 'you can't anchor there' nonsense. I had lost two boats, actually, to Sandy, a 19 foot center console SeaSquirt as well as the Cobia, and had been busy scrambling to replace them, both of which had been disposed of properly, I might add, cut up and paid to drop at the dump, but because of which, I had not been able to go and check on Miss Liberty yet. Pasco County issued a notice (they say, I never saw it) to an address that was so old it had been torn down and is now a Walgreens, not the address on my ID or the ship's registration, which, when returned, became a warrant. I have a few friends in Clearwater, having been sort of the first long-term sailboat resident, and not easily, the official types were dead set against it, but at every inspection I was within the law or so close no offense was sufficient to net me more than a single 'anchor light' ticket (bulbs burn out, sometimes) which I think was even dismissed when I proved I fixed it before the next evening, and complain as they did, the local Condo owners finally grumbled and accepted that I lived here.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Sorry to hear that thieves have stolen all your stuff. That's terrible. Did they also set her adrift so that she became grounded? Did you file a police report when this happened? How and when did she sink? Something sounds fishy with this story. Did you have your belongings insured from theft? With all the derelict boats in Florida, it is not surprising that they are trying to hold owners responsible so taxpayers are not stuck with the cleanup bill. From what I've observed in places, there are many abandoned boats in FL and many more that look like they're one step away from becoming derelicts. It's unfortunate that you've been caught up in this but if you explain to a judge that the boat was ransacked and cut free one night and you returned to it the next day to find it grounded and stripped, I can't see how you can be held responsible. Sounds like time to get a lawyer, maybe even a PI to find if there is a link between the disgruntled condo owners and the destruction of your boat.
 
#11 ·
I know, long winded, my apologies, but the Devil here is in the details. So, I know some guys here that do commercial recoveries and I begged, rented, or borrowed enough equipment to handle about any condition I thought Miss Liberty could conceivably be in up to and including refloat from as deep as 30 or so feet, rented a good deck boat as a work platform, and went to go get a good meal for me and a few buddies who agreed to be unskilled labor for food on that lovely albeit chilly Friday afternoon... And got arrested at the Hess station hanging out waiting for them to show up for 'Felony Derelict/Abandoned Vessel', with all that equipment, much of it RENTED, remember, with a NO BOND hold,because Pasco County considered the undelivered notice a 'failure to appear'! I tryed all weekend to contact someone to no avail, and on Monday I went before a judge who then refused to release me on my own recognizance, and since all anyone knew was that I had borrowed a bunch of expensive equipment and then vanished, because since I had been transferred directly to Pasco, it took 13 DAYS to arrange a friend to find me and come 27 miles away and put up property and 100 dollars to pay a$500 dollar bail! The rental companies I got some of the equipment from were ticked, and blackballed me from further rentals because I didn't have money to pay the added fees. ...more in a bit...
 
#12 ·
Ditto on PorFin's comment. Just about everything you described in your unfortunate tale would have been reimbursed and made whole to at least some degree by properly insuring your vessel and personal property. If the situation is that you chose not to carry insurance for whatever reason, then you are in fact totally responsible and get zero sympathy from me.
 
#15 ·
Been giving this some thought, and trying to read between the lines (which may be useless since some details are either wrong or make absolutely no sense)...

- 42' ferro-cement boat, laying at anchor in the same spot for 5+ years.
- Owner not living aboard, but "visiting" every other week or so.
- Owner apparently also has no fixed shoreside residence.
- From the description, the boat is either a floating apartment or a floating storage unit -- even those self-indulgent power boaters we love to poke fun at would think that a 90" TV has no business on a real seaworthy vessel that's less than 160' LOA.
- Owner has boat firmly attached to the bottom with 750' of 3" chain (in an area that never exceeds 12' of depth) at the northern end of the ICW along FL's west coast.
- Owner declined to insure his boat (basically assuming all risk himself.)
- For some reason that is so far unclear, both the owner and the vessel caught and held the attention of local LEO's.
- Don't know if the vessel registration was kept up to date.
- LEO's had been trying to engage the owner for a long time before the vessel was listed as "at risk."
- The live aboard owner was not present to defend his "home" when looters/salvors descended.
- Hurricane Sandy's impact on the west coast of Florida was fairly minor, so that's probably been thrown in there just to elicit sympathy.

Captmetatron -- forgive me for being harsh, but as the saying goes "it sucks to be you."

You took a gamble and lost. Had you carried insurance on the boat, you'd have far fewer problems than you are facing today.

The story of your arrest also raises more questions than anything else.

Frankly, you and your vessel are the epitome of exactly WHY Florida is enacting laws that make life for cruisers more challenging these days.

Do I feel sorry for you? A little. But you gotta live with the decisions you've made.
 
#16 ·
5 years without moving says houseboat to me rather than a liveaboard cruiser.

But having some experience with local authorities in Florida and how they deal with people they perceive to be vagrants squatting without paying local taxes I suspect that they will use all the bits of the law that they can to get you out of there.

Anyway is your boat water tight and will it stay afloat if moved to deep water? Does it have a working engine. Do you have a destination in mind if it is refloated.
 
#19 ·
Yea, and a 500 gallon stainless steel fuel tank, and a restaurant hood, with all that equipment there must have been no room to walk around inside! I wonder if he had a washer and drier on deck? must have been hanging pretty low in the water.
 
#20 ·
#21 ·
I also would like to hear more on the 250 yards of 3" chain. There's big and then there's BIG. How can you carry 250 yards of 3" chain on a 42' boat? 1/2" chain is massive. 200' is a lot. This would seem impossible to store, carry or haul up. Where do you get a windlass for that? Lemme guess, you haul it up by hand, right?
 
#23 ·
To address a couple things... she was not anchored in the same place continuously for five years, but there was a place in the Mandalay Channel I always came back to. Her being anchored near Anclote was the result of an aborted trip to Crystal River, I didn't expect to be anchored out,I thought to be docked at the end of the trip, hense no insurance, I didn't expect Liberty to stay there.
 
#27 · (Edited)
To address a couple things... she was not anchored in the same place continuously for five years, but there was a place in the Mandalay Channel I always came back to.
it is a fine, nuanced, difference, but a difference nonethesame...
no it's not.
your boat apparently looked derelict, smelled derelict, was for all intents and purposes derelict, and after years of neglect now yo whine about somebody salvaging the boat you refused to?

As soon as i read "ferro-cement" and "florida" I knew this was not going to end well.

No, that is not skipper-profiling, that is just plain observing the law of probabilities.
 
#25 ·
Another point, I never abandoned the Miss Liberty, even now I haven't, she's my home, and I love her it can all still be fixed. The interferance by law enforcement accomplished no public service or benefit to the tax payer, all they did is make it harder on me, a kick while I'm down. If anything it will cost taxpayers needlessly to have brought all this to court. The Pasco county sherriff has mishandled the whole thing since day one, and should be held accountable for just trying to make money hiding their own fault,if Miss Liberty had never been looted, none of this would have happened,. How is it possible that they spend all day every day right there but allowed this to happen? It had to have taken some time to rip up the deck and take the fuel tank, and the wheel and all, they'd have have to have had some idea of the fact that what was going on wasn't kosher. And rather than pursue the question of who stripped the ship, they pursue ME.
 
#26 ·
The current plan is to take a couple jet skis and a deck boat up and put her on a kind of outrigger made out of 55 gallon drums and firehose to sling her sideways, reducing the keel depth, till I can get her back to deep enough water, then take her to a dock to fix her back up.
 
#31 ·
You know what seems odd to me about this, an event like this would usually end up in the newspapers down there. Grounded boats, jail sentences, stripped boats, and the like usually show up in a Google or Dogpile search. But when I do a search on line nothing comes up except the conversations on SailNet.

I assume that the 3" chain is a typo for 3/8" chain. If that is intended as the length of the link, that is approximately the length of 1/2-9/16" chain. The 250 yards (1/7th of a mile of chain), on the other hand, is inexplicable unless the boat was anchored in awefully deep water, as in 100 feet or so, oh wait, there are no 100 foot anchorages on the west coast of Florida..

Jus' say'n,
 
  • Like
Reactions: davidpm
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top