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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??
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Thread: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS?? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-24-2013 11:08 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
That's off you would think it would be more likely to leak from the bottom than from the top.
Unless it is leaking from the bottom because of the extra weight.

Be sure to tell us when you find out what it is.
Yeah - it's weird. At first I thought it was coming from the top of the tank. But it kept on for a couple of hours - so I drained it more than half way and it stopped.

It's a 100 gallon alum tank - so I hope it's just a fitting and not pitted through.
07-24-2013 10:56 PM
davidpm
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
One big one was a leak in the water tank. There was no indication of leakage during the survey.
That's off you would think it would be more likely to leak from the bottom than from the top.
Unless it is leaking from the bottom because of the extra weight.

Be sure to tell us when you find out what it is.
07-23-2013 10:28 PM
CheckedOutRob
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Wow. I wish I had read my own thread as OP (time travel) before moving on the expensive evaluation of these boats. What I've taken away from this is it's critically important to press the owner/broker to respond in good faith to the potential buyers (me) questions. Any waffling/deflection would indicate a "walk-away" or a "Deniro" moment where you hold their head underwater in a toilet until the truth comes out. I think my broker is afraid of me now....
07-21-2013 10:58 PM
arvicola-amphibius
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

I have owned more boats than cars. Some bought privately and some via a broker.
When dealing with an unknown broker, I tell them straight up how much I will spend and warn them that if I find any undisclosed defect or if the boat stinks, I will walk away and not deal with them ever again. I do my own preliminary survey, which is based on experience and a general 'feel' for how clean and tidy the boat is.
As a result of this, I bought four (including my current boat) and sold my last three boats through the one broker. Sadly she passed away a few years ago, but she was honest and never wasted my time on any junk. Further, if in her opinion a boat was unsafe, she would not market it and if it was daggy she would give the seller a reality check on likely market value. So not all brokers are scumbags.

When looking around for good boats, it pays to concentrate on areas where real sailors sail; where the weather is not always kind but they go out anyway. e.g. Tasmania in Australia has more really fine boats per capita than anywhere else locally and I suspect that the same could be said in the USA for areas like Maine. The boats will often be properly-equipped, more seaworthy and better maintained than the marina queens found in warmer climes.
07-20-2013 03:52 AM
CheckedOutRob
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Thanks. This thread has become invaluable to my boat buying process. And yes, my broker said "make an offer and get a survey". I was really happy to finally see a really nice boat that met my criteria -I had only seen dogs up to this point.
I don't know why my brain did not kick in at that point and make me delve into the details of further questions and answers. I thought "that's how it's done" because that is how my broker presented it. My broker is a "buyers broker" recommended personally to me by someone with my vested interest. But in the end I guess they are still a broker.
07-20-2013 03:13 AM
CheckedOutRob
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
To my point, it makes no sense to have to make offers in the blind, and then pay someone to tell you you need to walk away from this one. The non disclosure on the part of sellers/brokers, IMO, borders on fraudulent behavior. Instead of telling you what they already know, they tell you to figure it out for yourself. There should be disclosure up front. With that disclosure an informed buying decision can be made.
-EXACTLY MY POINT! Although I do not think anyone makes offers blind ie. I do a personal inspection before making the offer and writing the deposit check (escrow) to the broker. But the issue that is the nature of the beast is that the seller and/or the broker are hoping I am a dumb **** who will not hire the sharpest surveyor outfit on the west coast (REISNER, McEWEN & HARRIS) which I did. Absolute professionals and they spent an entire long day on the survey. What they found was obviously known by the owner. Keel cracked, keel to hull joint delamination, rudder fin cracked, main bulkhead detached from hull, hull distortion. It's known by the owner because the boat was on the hard for the last 6 mos. And get this -the owner is a surveyor!!! That's why I'm so pissed at this whole process. The owner was praying I would f-up and buy the boat. That's pretty much fraud. And I'm out $2000 because of travel expenses and survey on this one.
I felt I had a relationship of trust with my broker. Did my broker just not do their due diligence? Had they at least looked they would have seen the items listed as brand new in the listing text were actually original to the boat and in bad shape. Jeez, I wonder if they will change the language of the listing on Yachtworld. I really doubt it.
07-20-2013 01:57 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

"One big one was a leak in the water tank."

50 cents worth of bondo will probably fix it just fine...
07-19-2013 08:58 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
What did the survey miss?
One big one was a leak in the water tank. There was no indication of leakage during the survey. However, when I filled it to capacity, it started leaking like a sieve. So I've got to figure that one out. I pulled the cover in the v-berth and started looking around yesterday. We'll see.

In my case, and I think it's pretty typical in surveys, it was "non-invasive". In other words he didn't dig into nooks and crannies.

Here's the wording from the contract:

Quote:
Inspections are conducted without any mechanical removals of any kind by the surveyor. Mechanical removals include anything that require tools, destruction and/or heavy lifting to make ready, for example tacked carpeting, fastened access covers, anchor chain or large tool boxes. Any inaccessible areas needing entry are to be made ready by the owner or the owner’s representative.
I was there during the survey and shadowed him - which he liked. He did a very good job. It was definitely worth the money.
07-19-2013 09:30 AM
TJC45
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
In my case of buying my Hunter it was disclosure - offer. I went down and spent a couple of hours on her, checking out everything I possibly could. I found a lot of things that I had questions about. I sent the broker and owner that list, plus a list of many more that would pinpoint potential problems. Their answers to all those questions (about 20 of them) was disclosure prior to offer.

I then made the offer and entered into a contract that was contingent of survey, that stated that the offer was up for renegotiation if deficiencies were found in the survey. They were - and those let me push the purchase price lower than my already low-ball offer. I pushed until the broker got very nervous.

Now, yes, had the owner balked and walked - I would have eaten the costs at that point. But he didn't and we closed the deal and are still in touch. He'll be sailing with me soon. I got a great deal - he got out from under the boat. And I was very satisfied with the disclosure prior to my offer.

I think the system works pretty well.
You and I would get along! This is exactly the way I do it. Check it out, ask questions, make a go - no go decision based on those answers.

That said, i was and am amazed at the number of brokers who answer my questions with 'Make an offer and get a survey." That's the part I have the issue with. Without the answers to those intial questions i'm not sure i want to make an offer. Disclosure - offer

BTW, i went on the blog and chked out the pixs of your boat. You did well!!! That puppy is gorgeous!!!!

Nicely done!
07-19-2013 02:58 AM
davidpm
Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
And there were other problems no one, not even the surveyor could catch (based on how typical "non-invasive" surveys are done). So it's all going to cost me a fair amount more than I'd planned for. C'est un bateau!

What did the survey miss?
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