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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > proof of paid sales tax
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-24-2013 08:32 AM
Minnewaska
Re: proof of paid sales tax

I think its pretty common for documented boats to skip the State registration process. It's a bit hard to distinguish, so I can see a given State stepping up efforts to enforce their rules. In fact, I dare say that half the documented boats I know, that are owned by people outside of RI, do not register them in RI. There is no sales/use tax to avoid, but the annual registration fee is healthy. $300/yr for us. We do register. Ironically, I just began putting the sticker on our mast this past year. I always had it below, but just never bothered applying it.

I do keep a legal envelope aboard, with Boat Documents inside. I have everything from my Documentation certificate to insurance card to a copy of my purchase survey and bill of sale. Someday, I will need all of it and having it in one place is helpful for me.
07-24-2013 12:07 AM
TakeFive
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
If your boat is already registered in Michigan or other state, or if federally registered and has a 'use tax' paid as required by some stats .... both usually by indication of VISIBLE DISPLAY of an affixed 'sticker': If so, There is NO probable cause for a 'conservation officer' to even stop and ask for such 'documentary justification' of taxes paid.
Usually, the affixed 'sticker' is legally the only 'receipt' that you need. The possession of the 'sticker' in most legal venues is PRIMA FACIA evidence of TAXES PAID. To be otherwise would be extreme legal thuggery (legal flim flam) and should merit a courteous and immediate contact with your state attorney general's office.

Whats next in Michigan? you have to carry receipts for every item you purchase with you - for your automobile, clothing, ipod, candy bars, food items, etc. etc. etc.? What Michigan statute so states this and what Michigan statute authorizes such searches for tax payment of same? Maybe each Leo should stop all citizens and while youre in 'temporary custody' allow the LEO to review and search before you probably 75,000 pages of Michigan legal code to insure that you havent committed other infractions, just to make sure (for revenue purposes).
I dont think so; and if so stopped and overtly COERCED by such a law enforcement IMBECILE, the first statements Id make is:
Officer what is the purpose of that affixed STICKER behind my registration numbers?
Are you arresting me or am I free to go?


Most certainly such a 'revenue stop' as outlined above with OBVIOUSLY displayed required 'sticker' is inane and most probably quite illegal .... and SHOULD probably involve the suggestion of CRIMINAL CHARGES to be brought against the LEO and his/her authorizing agency for doing so. Your registration number and accompanying 'sticker' ID ... is in a computer DATABASE and there should be no need for some revenue gestapo to re-verify whats already in that state database .... without probable cause.
Surely, some LEO or LEO supervisor et al is attempting to 'make a name' for him/herself, especially in the time of catastrophic municipal revenue shortfalls.
Guess who the intended 'prey species' is?

Have you contacted your state senators and/or state house representatives?
Have you contacted your large local/regional newspaper / TV stations about this LEGAL COERCION AND LEGAL THUGGERY????
At a time when probably the bulk of the population abjectly ABHORS and FEARS 'government', there is nothing like obtaining 'justice' through the court of public opinion as would be carried by 'the media', .... especially with November elections coming such could be quite 'explosive'.

Dont take this 'LEO chicken-scheist' laying down. ;-)
Calm down, Popeye!

The OP was merely quoting an unverified anonymous post that he saw on ActiveCaptain. (OK, it wasn't anonymous, his name was "Rit." Good luck tracking him down! ) I see little sign that the AC post told the whole story of what happened - it just sounds too vague and lopsided. I suspect the guy actually had an unregistered boat, or it was registered in the prior owner's name and he didn't transfer it. (After all, he never said that the accusations were untrue.)

But I would be willing to bet that there's a simple explanation for what happened, and that it does not involve LEGAL COERCION AND LEGAL THUGGERY.

At the very least, the OP has no reason to go contacting politicians over this. After all, it's just an unverified post that he read. If you really want to make a case out of this, maybe you could contact Jeff Siegel about it. Maybe he has to tools to go track down Mr. Rit.
07-23-2013 11:53 PM
RichH
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by michigancruisers View Post
Saw this post on active captain regarding an anchorage in northern Michigan.


"the Conservation Officers who come around to your boat asking to see proof that you paid sales tax on your boat. And when you can't find the reciept for your sales tax payment, issue you a ticket. Quite an experience."
If your boat is already registered in Michigan or other state, or if federally registered and has a 'use tax' paid as required by some stats .... both usually by indication of VISIBLE DISPLAY of an affixed 'sticker': If so, There is NO probable cause for a 'conservation officer' to even stop and ask for such 'documentary justification' of taxes paid.
Usually, the affixed 'sticker' is legally the only 'receipt' that you need. The possession of the 'sticker' in most legal venues is PRIMA FACIA evidence of TAXES PAID. To be otherwise would be extreme legal thuggery (legal flim flam) and should merit a courteous and immediate contact with your state attorney general's office.

Whats next in Michigan? you have to carry receipts for every item you purchase with you - for your automobile, clothing, ipod, candy bars, food items, etc. etc. etc.? What Michigan statute so states this and what Michigan statute authorizes such searches for tax payment of same? Maybe each Leo should stop all citizens and while youre in 'temporary custody' allow the LEO to review and search before you probably 75,000 pages of Michigan legal code to insure that you havent committed other infractions, just to make sure (for revenue purposes).
I dont think so; and if so stopped and overtly COERCED by such a law enforcement IMBECILE, the first statements Id make is:
Officer what is the purpose of that affixed STICKER behind my registration numbers?
Are you arresting me or am I free to go?


Most certainly such a 'revenue stop' as outlined above with OBVIOUSLY displayed required 'sticker' is inane and most probably quite illegal .... and SHOULD probably involve the suggestion of CRIMINAL CHARGES to be brought against the LEO and his/her authorizing agency for doing so. Your registration number and accompanying 'sticker' ID ... is in a computer DATABASE and there should be no need for some revenue gestapo to re-verify whats already in that state database .... without probable cause.
Surely, some LEO or LEO supervisor et al is attempting to 'make a name' for him/herself, especially in the time of catastrophic municipal revenue shortfalls.
Guess who the intended 'prey species' is?

Have you contacted your state senators and/or state house representatives?
Have you contacted your large local/regional newspaper / TV stations about this LEGAL COERCION AND LEGAL THUGGERY????
At a time when probably the bulk of the population abjectly ABHORS and FEARS 'government', there is nothing like obtaining 'justice' through the court of public opinion as would be carried by 'the media', .... especially with November elections coming such could be quite 'explosive'.

Dont take this 'LEO chicken-scheist' laying down. ;-)
07-21-2013 10:31 AM
mad_machine
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27 View Post
Doubt it since you're not actually using it. But it wouldn't surprise me if they tried.

CA tried charging me a "Use Tax" because the hailing port his Dana Point, CA. I had to send the paperwork to prove I purchased, paid sales tax and stored/used outside of CA. I haven't heard anything since.
Hard to prove use when the rig is off the boat, the interior is stripped out, and I am grinding away at gelcoat cracks.. unless that is use
07-19-2013 03:56 PM
chucklesR
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
The usual practice is to use the physical address of your 'mail forwarder'. .... thats why the homeport of "Green Cove Springs, Florida, etc." is a quite common hailing port for 'long term travelers'.
Doing that, and assuming I use one of my children as my forwarder would mean it's not the state we are registered in, nor the state of primary use.
07-19-2013 03:18 PM
WesAllen
Re: proof of paid sales tax

I have noticed on some online auctions (in MI) that they state that the sticker has a registration date until sometime in the future. That would lead someone to think that they can wait until that date to register the vessel with the state (MI). That would lead to a problem as the sales tax hasn't been paid to the state DMV (or proof of). Which you need when you get it registered in your name. The state still thinks that the original owner still owns it. That could lead to a whole different problem in itself.
07-19-2013 12:49 PM
RichH
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
I"m curious as to what happens when a cruiser truly detaches from land and has no fixed address. How do they maintain a state registration?
The usual practice is to use the physical address of your 'mail forwarder'. .... thats why the homeport of "Green Cove Springs, Florida, etc." is a quite common hailing port for 'long term travelers'.
07-19-2013 08:14 AM
chucklesR
Re: proof of paid sales tax

USCG documentation does not preclude your state of residence from requiring you to register and keep your registration up to date. Local Law enforcement can ticket you for not keeping a current sticker on your boat - but they can not require that you display your numbers on the boat (if you are USCG documented).

Of course to register you have to pay either a sales tax (legally only if new) or an excise or use tax (depends on the state). They can even hit you with a use tax if you move from one state to another - although most only do the difference between what you've already paid and what they charge percentage wise.
That they (state tax collectors) know you MUST have paid if you are registered doesn't preclude them from being bureaucratic idiots and insisting you produce a 15 year of receipt.
In the event of moving from one state to the next generally you can contact your registered in state and have them print you out a proof of payment document. You'd be silly not to take that with you. Funny, they don't do the same thing with cars - I guess enough lawsuits have taught them it's a fruitless tree.

I"m curious as to what happens when a cruiser truly detaches from land and has no fixed address. How do they maintain a state registration?
07-19-2013 12:18 AM
Delirious
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by michigancruisers View Post
Saw this post on active captain regarding an anchorage in northern Michigan.


"the Conservation Officers who come around to your boat asking to see proof that you paid sales tax on your boat. And when you can't find the reciept for your sales tax payment, issue you a ticket. Quite an experience."

Has anyone else ever had this happen to them?

THE ADMIRAL and I bought a Pearson 27 that was documented (our first) from MA. I transferred the documentation but never registered with NY. (The Coast Guard even says another entity CANNOT issue a vessel number as I recall).

No problem until we tied up at a State Park facility. The Park Police issued me a ticket for operating an unregistered vehicle (would have counted on my DRIVER's license as an infraction). I had 30 days to correct it (register) and present proof to a judge. They did waive the ticket and I have since registered my documented sailboats. They did not have authority to board us. But got me with my feet on land.


NY considers auxiliary sailboats and motorboats as vehicles - and arrests for DWI & DUI. Facists!
07-18-2013 08:34 PM
TakeFive
Re: proof of paid sales tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_machine View Post
interesting. Mine is sitting on a trailer in my driveway. Are they going to hit me for a "use tax"?
Not if you can prove you paid your tax to another state. Which state did you pay?
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