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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > know it all ???
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Thread: know it all ??? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-15-2013 06:17 PM
Capt.aaron
Re: know it all ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
I've raced at two yacht clubs that line a commercial river. The race courses, generally, cross the channel. That channel is the roadway for everything from small passenger ferrys to large ocean going freighters and tankers. The clubs both have extensive sailing instructions regarding sailing in and across the channel during races. And, instructions on dealing with the commercial traffic? Basically all those instructions can be summed up in one small sentence. "Stay out of the way!"

Included in the instructions are do not cross points. That is, if a ship is within these markers do not cross the channel in front of the ship. That goes regardless of your speed and the ship's. There are also instructions informing racers that there are cables between tugs and barges. These clubs have operated for decades without incident. The rules are enforced, so i'm told, with a heavy hand.

And, fortunately, the clubs have options in certain wind/current conditions to set courses that don't come near the shipping channel.

I mention this because the attitude displayed at both these clubs is anything but "We own the river." If anything, it is quite the opposite. A lot of respect is given to the commericial traffic.
That's how it should be. I don't "hate' people who race, I do love picking on the snotty 30 something year old kids who are rude to my town folk. We all know the type. We have been cut off by many a race boat on their way back to Miami Beach Marina after a race while they were under power. They know they can scoot in front us, but they cut so close they disapear 'cept for the mast in front of the barge, it looks like we're about to hit them. That is usually when the engine will fail and disasters happen. I don't know it all but I know that.
80% of the cracks I make about "Racers" is with my tounge in my cheak. And as I said it's not towards people who enjoy racing, it is towards the fore mentioned crowd, which unfortunatly seems to be a lot of 'em.
I still think it should be a smash up race to the last man floating type sport, maybe we should start a league of X tream racing, I would even sail in a race like that.
The only rule being get there first.
08-15-2013 03:53 PM
capttb
Re: know it all ???

Quote:
(he looked maybe 40 to me)
I knew everything about sailing when I was 40 from sailing the Pacific since childhood, unfortunately I've forgotten or abandoned most of that wisedom in the intervening decades and they keep coming up with new stuff.
I love to race or cruise, I crew for friends with very nice boats and deep pockets, nobody wears matching T-shirts unless it's a charity regatta and then those who can afford it buy them and make the boat's contributions for the crew.
You guys been hanging with the wrong rich sailor's, the best ones I know dress like old wharf rats and mingle right in amongst us common working folk.
08-15-2013 12:57 PM
TJC45
Re: know it all ???

I've raced at two yacht clubs that line a commercial river. The race courses, generally, cross the channel. That channel is the roadway for everything from small passenger ferrys to large ocean going freighters and tankers. The clubs both have extensive sailing instructions regarding sailing in and across the channel during races. And, instructions on dealing with the commercial traffic? Basically all those instructions can be summed up in one small sentence. "Stay out of the way!"

Included in the instructions are do not cross points. That is, if a ship is within these markers do not cross the channel in front of the ship. That goes regardless of your speed and the ship's. There are also instructions informing racers that there are cables between tugs and barges. These clubs have operated for decades without incident. The rules are enforced, so i'm told, with a heavy hand.

And, fortunately, the clubs have options in certain wind/current conditions to set courses that don't come near the shipping channel.

I mention this because the attitude displayed at both these clubs is anything but "We own the river." If anything, it is quite the opposite. A lot of respect is given to the commericial traffic.
08-14-2013 10:48 AM
DRFerron
Re: know it all ???

Aaron and Bob are going at each other with...classical music??!!

I must be in some alternate SailNet universe.

I think I like it.
08-14-2013 10:43 AM
aeventyr60
Re: know it all ???

What matters most is common sense, problem solving, and decision-making ability, not years of experience.

James,
The real issue is that common sense is not that common.....
08-14-2013 10:33 AM
jameswilson29
Re: know it all ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjango View Post
I had a guy today proclaim that " Very few know as much as I do about sailing."... He immediately replied that if you can sail in the Chesapeake you can sail anywhere . Any notions among sailnetters about that ?
Back to the original issue, which contains three faulty premises:

1. The first faulty premise is that experience matters most, that experience is the sine qua non for sailing/passagemaking. We have all seen how erroneous that idea is. One of the reasons the Bounty incident was so compelling was that Captain Walbridge had more sea experience than almost all of us, yet his poor judgment, lack of common sense and faulty decision-making resulting in his death and the death of an innocent female crewmember. How many incidents have we read about involving very experienced skippers, including delivery captains, who do very stupid things resulting in USCG rescues, loss of property and/or loss of life?

What matters most is common sense, problem solving, and decision-making ability, not years of experience.

2. The second faulty premise is that breadth and scope of knowledge about the general subject of "Sailing" matter. There are many old salts here with a wealth of maritime knowledge. Most of it seems irrelevant to actual real-life cruising. One could memorize Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship and still be incompetent at handling a boat in real life situations. What matters is being a master of the basics, keeping it simple, and knowing what is important and essential.

A perfect example is knot tying. One can get by perfectly well by knowing how to tie five knots: a square knot, a bowline knot, a half hitch, a clove hitch, and a figure eight knot. Yet there are books that will teach you how to tie 50 different knots. For what purpose? A love of all things salty and maritime? Possessing a vast knowledge of "Sailing" does not necessarily translate into an essential foundation for successful sailing/cruising/passage making. In fact, some seem to become lost in the details and a quest to buy more and more boat stuff.

3. The third faulty premise is the idea that one man's opinion matters, particularly on this listserv. Here is where big egos are involved. To a minority of members here, it is very important that everyone accept their opinions as gospel, without any disagreement. Their egos are very invested in their sailing experience and they think their experience matters. Apparently, it is part of their identity and self-worth.

What really matters is the foundation or support for one's opinion. What matters is the objective third party references, the analysis, the thought pattern and the personal experience with a particular situation or place behind the opinions, not what any one person thinks. One of the best things I have drawn from this listserv are book recommendations from more experienced members here, not necessarily their opinions.

On the side issue of whether the Chesapeake Bay prepares one well for all situations, I do agree the Chesapeake Bay is a benign body of water to sail on. It is a beautiful place to sail, but not very challenging most of the time. The bottom is soft, the tidal range is small, there are few hazards, and there are many safe harbors to duck into when trouble arises.

I, for one, appreciate the wide variety of opinions and experiences on this listserv and I don't understand why some seem to require that their bare opinions carry more weight than others. Tell me why you believe something, provide your analysis and your resources, not your opinion as the gospel truth.
08-13-2013 11:08 PM
poopdeckpappy
Re: know it all ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
Nothing new the ocean can teach him?
Holly crap, that one sent chills, don't even want to be around this guy when that day comes...............and it will
08-13-2013 10:12 PM
Capt.aaron
Re: know it all ???

I googled it. Ok Ok obscure. chaotic, I brush my teeth with that sh!t! That all you got? My wife is a cellist that likes Philip Glass. Bring it.
All kidding aside. Racers have proven to be a pain in my ass through the years, and to some degree still are. At ten tomorrow morning, I will be at the helm of a 400 foot tug and barge full of black oil, making way across Biscayne Bay south of Miami, and as usual, I will be taking her out of gear and blow'n my horn to let them pass and not
" Mess up their practice race" In fact I have gone out of my way one thousand times to the one I didn't to not impede a race. And I have kept my mouth shut 1000 times to the few that I have opened it in regard to their dis respect to my friends, spouse and neighbors here in the Key's. I could play dick sword fight all day with racers on who his in the right. Racers are oblivious to their transgressions. I've known that my whole life. I still get a kick out of tell'n 'em to suck it every once and a while. I like the look on their face and I can read their thought's " Did that guy just that to us?" "Who was that?" "Why?" ( said in Scooby Doo voice of course.) I have a whole township of Locals behind me who have story after story of why we love to hate 'em.
08-13-2013 09:49 PM
bobperry
Re: know it all ???

Trust me Aaron, you do not want to be tied to a chair with those Clockwork Orange thingies on your eyes being made to listen to this shite.
08-13-2013 09:47 PM
Capt.aaron
Re: know it all ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
No,,,I'm going to punish him and punish him good:
John Adams JOHN'S BOOK OF ALLEGED DANCES
followed by:
The John Adams string quartet.

That should bring that guy to his knees begging for mercy.
Hold while I google please.
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