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An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

10K views 76 replies 32 participants last post by  TJC45 
#1 ·
This is the first boat we saw on our trip

1985 Sabre 38.
Price $79,500


"Patriot" is a turnkey boat with upgrades that include new Raymarine C90W chartplotter/GPS, New "ultra thin" TV, propane BBQ grill, reverse cycle heat & air and more. Classic example of the Sabre 38' that performs well and is in excellent condition. PRICE REDUCED - CALL NOW!















 
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#5 ·
I bet that bow pulpit was welded that way to allow them to fit into a 38' marina slip to save on moorage fees. It's not uncommon to see creative ways to shorten bow pulpits on boats in my marina because fees are paid on slip length, and they count bow pulpit into the boat length.
 
#8 ·
You can't see it but it's broken, tubing split in half. When asked about it, the broker said the boat was moved to a slip for the winter before Sandy hit. The bow pulpit was destroyed when it hit the seawall. If you follow the lines of the pulpit on the port side you can see it was deformed, pushed back, during the storm.

I'm guessing the blocks on the port side of the main traveller were blown out when the mast began whipping side-to-side during the storm. The duct tape covering the void was brittle and the wood underneath was rotted. There are some deep gouges on the hull, also from the storm.
 
#15 ·
The broker had a 3 hour round trip from Annapolis, as did we. Plus he had to pay for the launch to take us out to the boat and back. He lost about 5 hours time, plus gas and launch fee. We stopped at Fisherman's Inn on Kent Island on the way back and had a couple of Rum Runners on the dock. I think we fared better then he did. :D

So did you even make an offer???
$10K?
Well, that may be a bit high but we did mention we'd like to talk to the owner. The broker replied with an emphatic "No" but did say if we put in an offer and it was accepted then he might let us talk to the owner.

Lemme think about it...:p

One other thing, the wheel lock was shot - totally useless. Imagine the rudder flop in the storm.





 
#12 ·
That $79,500 is what they pay you to haul it off & dispose of it, right? [Which is the 'sarcasm' smiley?]
 
#14 ·
This is the first boat we saw on our trip

1985 Sabre 38.
Price $79,500


"Patriot" is a turnkey boat
Yep, I bet the key might turn....

Pigsty.....

They will tell you anything to get you to look.. Offer them 30k and by the time you're done you'll have your 80k boat....Lots of "deferred" maintenance....
 
#17 ·
No sympathy for the broker, his job is to head off false starts like this so that YOU dont waste your time, wasting his is his problem.

Was this a one time showing with this broker, or are you working with him on your boat search? If you are working with him, you should expect him to get his act together so when you see a boat, its condition has been accurately communicated to you in advance. When there is doubt, he should see the boat for you, then advise you as to whether he recommends a visit.

Service like that is the reason that working through a broker (such not to be confused with the mythical "buyer's broker") can make a lot of sense, unless of course you enjoy the thrills and chills of the hunt.
 
#19 ·
A good broker, and we had one, can steer you away from the dud boats. Ours also dealt with getting the proper paperwork together so we only had to sign and sail away when the time came. And once we found a surveyor (also very good), he coordinated the survey and sea trial so we did it all in one afternoon.

He also treated us to drinks at his club and bought us matching hats with our boat's name on it. Yeah, he was counting on us returning to him when we moved to a larger boat (which we're now in the process of doing).

We weren't buying a high end boat but for first time "big" boat buyers, our broker stopped us from making stupid and costly mistakes.
 
#23 ·
I am thinking there must have been a misprint in the price, was it $7,950.00 or $795.00? I know they could not possibly be asking $79,500.00 real US Dollars for that thing. I figure the reason the broker was not wanting you to talk to the owner was the fact that you might tell him that he must be smoking something illegal if he thinks anyone will pay that much for the boat that he let go to pot, (small pun intended).

At least you got to go for a ride, and it was not quite a 20 hour round trip drive like my last expedition to look at a floating turd. I am just sitting tight for now, I figure in a couple of months the weather will really help me with the prices.
 
#33 · (Edited)
The broker looks up the going price on BUCnet or another data base and slaps it on. That price, which is supposed to be an NADA like price, is BS in it's own right. ( how many 1985 Saber 38's have sold recently to give reliable data?) Regardless, the broker slaps on the price, and then negotiates from there.

As for the price being what it is, if you don't ask you don't get. The seller's job is to get as much as possible for that boat. Your job, is to pay as little as possible.

I agree there is no excuse to mislead to this extent. However, there is a reason. First rule of selling tangibles is get the product into the customer's hands. With cars, it's the test drive. With Houses it's going to see properties. With boats it's get them on the boat. You can't sell anything to a customer who is not there. You need to get in front of the customer to create the selling situation. IOW, you can't get a hit unless you get an at bat. ( in the car biz customers are called ups) From there it's salesmanship and negotiation.

The more people who come on board that boat, the better chance it has of selling. If it's deficiencies are told up front no one will come to look at the boat. Quite frankly, the listing agent/broker and the owner could care less if you are pissed off about the boat being misrepresented. The more people who look, the more offers they will get. And make no mistake, they will get offers. And, they increase their opportunites to sell the boat.
 
#25 ·
I'm surprised you stayed long enough to take pictures.

Do you have your own broker that sent you to this boat? If so, fire them.

Just for clarification, you have to be careful with the idea of having your own broker, unless you pay them separately from the transaction and no one does. They just split the sellers commission with the listing broker, so still technically work for the seller. On the other hand, they will want to work for you again and you presumably control a piece of their local reputation, so they should have some loyalty to you.

The brokers seem to be more honest with each other than broker vs. buyer. If your broker calls theirs, they are likely to get a straighter answer, knowing that reputations spread fast in the broker circles. Not fail safe, just improving the odds.

If you haven't had this false advertising experience before, consider it a right of passage. Then, approach this differently going forward.
 
#27 ·
I'm surprised you stayed long enough to take pictures.
If we didn't, we wouldn't have these wonderful pictures. :D But really, we hadn't seen the Sabre 38 and we were right there. We liked the Sabre 38 but not that particular boat.

Do you have your own broker that sent you to this boat? If so, fire them.
We did.

Just for clarification, you have to be careful with the idea of having your own broker, unless you pay them separately from the transaction and no one does. They just split the sellers commission with the listing broker, so still technically work for the seller. On the other hand, they will want to work for you again and you presumably control a piece of their local reputation, so they should have some loyalty to you.

The brokers seem to be more honest with each other than broker vs. buyer. If your broker calls theirs, they are likely to get a straighter answer, knowing that reputations spread fast in the broker circles. Not fail safe, just improving the odds.
I know there's a lot of disagreement with this but I see the buyer as the one who pays for everything. The buyer hands the down payment to the broker and that will be the broker's commission if the sale goes through. The buyer pays for all the inspections. And the buyer pays the seller if everything is cool. Without the buyer, no one gets paid.

I realize the seller believes he or she is paying the broker but in reality the seller never sees the commission pass through their hands. So in the strictest sense, the buyer is the one everyone should be trying to please. "The customer is always right" sort of thing.

If you haven't had this false advertising experience before, consider it a right of passage. Then, approach this differently going forward.
I think we all know this doesn't have to be the case but few brokers are doing anything to change the present status quo, and they are the ones who best can. One broker we dealt with may be doing just that though.

Knot 10, as in not 10% (they charge 7%), has a different philosophy than the other brokers we've talked to. The guy on Kent Island said the Knot 10 philosophy is to only take boats that are priced to move. "It costs us money to keep boats in our listing inventory." He said boats that aren't getting any looks, and the seller won't drop the price, eventually get dropped from their listing. They are getting 3% less, so that makes sense.

In theory I can see this working, though I'm not sure Knot 10 strictly adheres to that. To work they would have to be good at getting the seller to list at a price that will encourage buyers not only to come in and look at the boats but make an offer. And the boats would have to be in a condition that is in line with the price. The only boat we saw that we seriously considered making an offer was the one they had.

Of course the other side of the coin is to accurately represent the boat in its present condition.

CPYB CODE OF ETHICS
Article 6
The Broker in his advertising should be especially careful to present a true picture and should neither advertise without disclosing his name, nor permit his salesman to use individual names or telephone numbers, unless the salesman's connection with the Broker is obvious in the advertisement.

YBAA CODE OF ETHICS & BUSINESS PRACTICE
SECTION 1. RELATIONS WITH THE PUBLIC
1.6 The Broker in his/her advertising will be especially careful to present a true picture of the vessel and/or its condition and will not advertise without disclosing his/her name, nor permit his/her sales people to use the individual's name or telephone numbers, unless the sales person's connection with the Broker is obvious in the advertisement.

It's too bad that isn't strictly enforced. If it was, maybe they would sell more boats.

I am thinking there must have been a misprint in the price, was it $7,950.00 or $795.00? I know they could not possibly be asking $79,500.00 real US Dollars for that thing. I figure the reason the broker was not wanting you to talk to the owner was the fact that you might tell him that he must be smoking something illegal if he thinks anyone will pay that much for the boat that he let go to pot, (small pun intended).
Well, after we were back at the dock, the broker did mention the seller was pretty firm on the price so any dramatically lower offers shouldn't be made. I'm not sure but this may have been one of the boats that hadn't seen any interest in a year or more.
 
#26 ·
The most jaw-dropping example of false advertising that we saw on our boat search was this, which is unbelievably still up:

1978 O'Day Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Note that it says "This boat is in excellent condition" and there are several pictures. In reality, this is a derelict boat. When Mr. Cthoops went up the ladder to look at it, the temporary wood framing around the top literally broke off as soon as he touched it. When he peeked below from the vantage point of the cockpit, what he saw inside was a mold-covered, stinking, rotting out area with bees flying around.

It was so bad that I literally could not believe it was the same boat. I actually went back inside and showed my printout of the ad to the guy and asked him, "Is this the same boat?" His response was, "Yeah, those pictures are kind of old."

You could not have paid me to take that boat. Needless to say, I'm really glad that we're not boat shopping any more. I was hoping that a higher budget would result in fewer experiences like this, but from some of the posts I've read it sounds like that is not necessarily the case.
 
#28 ·
Very misleading indeed. The photos in the listing were clearly taken some time ago since the broken bow rail, companionway woodwork needing upkeep, etc. don't show up. The listing also says "Priced reduced!". You mean they were asking MORE than $79k at one point!?

They call 'em "broke"ers for a reason. Follow their advice and you'll end up broker than when you started.
 
#29 ·
Julie you are correct that the buyer pays all. That is true when buying a boat and buying a house. Here is a little maneuver that will save you a few dollars. Lets say the boat is 50,000 and the commission is 10% which is 5K. The buyer ends up with 45K in his pocket.
Restructure the purchase this way, you offer to pay the commission and offer the buyer 45K. The commission is based on the selling price of 45K which is 4.5K. You've just saved yourself 500.00 dollars. Don't let the broker (boat or real estate) get a commission on the commission. When you use this and save yourself a few bucks, you can buy me and the admiral a cold one.
 
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#38 ·
Everything is negotiable. Some is better than none. And some employers do reduce
employees' salaries at review time. If the employee doesn't like it, he can walk. Its not cheating, the terms are known before the deal is agreed to.

That "lousy" $500 looks a lot better in my pocket than the brokers. And you know what else I've done in deals? I've (threaten) mentioned to the listing agent I could use a different agent to make the deal. He gets the idea that his commission would be cut in half if I do. So instead of his commission being reduced by that "lousy" $500 it would be
reduced by 2500. Hmmmm, my offer is looking pretty good to the broker now.
 
#41 ·
Everything is negotiable. Some is better than none. And some employers do reduce
employees' salaries at review time. If the employee doesn't like it, he can walk. Its not cheating, the terms are known before the deal is agreed to.

That "lousy" $500 looks a lot better in my pocket than the brokers. And you know what else I've done in deals? I've (threaten) mentioned to the listing agent I could use a different agent to make the deal. He gets the idea that his commission would be cut in half if I do. So instead of his commission being reduced by that "lousy" $500 it would be
reduced by 2500. Hmmmm, my offer is looking pretty good to the broker now.
Interesting. Most brokers know each other. Not just locally. unspoken ehtical rule is not to "steal" clients the way you describe. It will come back to bite you in the arse.

I am not a broker, but if I was and you suggested the above scenario, I would tell you to feck off.
 
#54 ·
There's no way a broker would re-negotiate, with the buyer, the terms of his listing contract with the seller, for the sole purpose of saving the buyer some money. That's a pipe dream.

Certainly the broker may reduce his commission with the SELLER if the broker considers it essential to closing a deal, where the broker decides getting 7% of a sale is better than 10% of nothing. The difference is what the seller nets, not what the buyer pays.
 
#47 ·
Yes, most things are negotiable.

A brokers commission is negotiable, but hardly for the price range we seem to be talking about in this thread. Show up at a brokerage to list your 70' Hylas and ask for reduced commission and you will likely get it. Show up with a $20K 30 footer and the broker will likely ask for a fixed minimum commission in USD that exceeds 10% of the asking price.

There is very little money in selling $20K boats.
Not much money is selling <$100K boats.
A broker should preferrrably sell mostly above $100K boats to make a decent living.

Above said, sometimes a broker will cut back on commission and give a kick back to the seller to make a deal happen.
 
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