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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#4,530 ·
Paolo- I'm wondering about how well the Ovni's/Allure's/Boreal's (not necessarily in that order) might handle stormier conditions than say > 40 kts tws. I know that's a bit specific, but there's not much out there in the way of information or experience, even for the Ovni's- which are the oldest of the 3 makes. This may boil down to speculation, but until we fly over to either the UK or France to test sail one of these, that's ok. Do you (or does anyone) have any idea?
 
#4,534 ·
French aluminum centerboarders



Welcome to the thread!

I have an idea LOL. Aluminiun French centerboarders were born as voyage boats and a voyage boat sooner or later will get bad weather. Yes, all of them can take bad weather and many have endured storms.

May I recall you that one of the most famous voyagers, Jimmy Cornell after several circumnavigations with different types of boats had choose as is final perfect voyage boat a French aluminium centerboarder? A OVNI 435. Now Cornell is even more impressed with Allures that in my opinion are a step ahead of traditional OVNI even if OVNI has now a different kind of centerboard that I know not well but looks promising.



That does not mean that this type of boat is the only suited to voyage but certainly it is one of them and the one favored by the French that have a huge variety of boats to choose.

Here you have a movie of one enduring 70K at port in the Arctic (I would hate to have my boat on those conditions) and some sailing with heavy wind even if not in storm conditions.







Regards

Paulo
 
#4,532 ·
Thanks, Marty- I searched the forum several months ago (not wanting to really become a member), but came up with zilch. I was specifically wondering about Paulo's ideas on the matter, since it's a bit about both two vs one rudder and centerboard vs traditional keel, and would prefer the opinion of someone who I think has quite a bit of experience (if not practical sailing experience, at least the theory behind it) to help me answer the question(s). I'm sure Paulo will raise more, but I think many of the Ovni owners have probably limited experience dealing with storm conditions, so this may boil down to theory-based opinion (which is ok- beggars can't be choosers). I don't want to take away from this thread, though-- but these really are interesting sailboats.. at least to me.

Ray
 
#4,535 ·
Experience and OVNI owners:

... but I think many of the Ovni owners have probably limited experience dealing with storm conditions, so this may boil down to theory-based opinion (which is ok- beggars can't be choosers). I don't want to take away from this thread, though-- but these really are interesting sailboats.. at least to me.

Ray
Ray, I would say that comparing experience in bad weather between owners of OVNIS and owners of any other type of boats the chances are that the owners of OVNIS have more experience just because they have bought a voyage boat to voyage and when you voyage a lot sooner or later you will get bad weather. Once I drank some bears with a OVNI owner at the Paris boat show. It turns out that the guy had circumnavigated 3 times with the same boat....Do you see what I mean? I am sure he had got its share of bad weather.

Here you have the OVNI forum and even if in French I guess it will be of some use to you:



Regards

Paulo
 
#4,538 ·
Youth America's cup

If the results of the Youth America's cup can give an idea of the youth sailing potential in what regards Match racing and sailing America's cup boats, than NZ wins hands down. First and second after the 7 races with Portugal in third at only one point of the second NZ team, being the first of the non sponsored (by the main teams).

 
#4,541 · (Edited)
Luffe 36.6/Dragonfly 28

Rumen, those are two very different boats and I would be very interested in knowing your impressions.

The Dragonfly is a much faster boat but that do not mean a more pleasurable boat (or the opposite). You will find that in what regards cruising the Luffe is a much bigger boat, with more interior space, more comfort and a bigger autonomy. If you want to sail more than a week without being in a spartan way, the Luffe would be the "normal" choice. If you are looking mostly for daysailng or weekend cruising than the Dragonfly 28 will be a lot of fun.

If you want to cruise more extensively you would have to look at a Dragonfly 32 or a 35.

Regarding the Luffe don't hesitate in buying the new 36.6 instead of the 37. I have no doubt it is a better boat and in what regards value, the 37 will lose value rapidly now that there is a new model.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,543 ·
Thanks Paulo! Yes, I am much more inclined to pay a price per boat and not per knot. Otherwise I should end in motor boat. I think the Luffe offers 4 basic basic advantages: 1. Traditional looking boat; 2. Excellent monohull sailing including including and good pointing; 3. Quality craftsmanship outside and inside that you can also match to your taste and 4. Fair price (not cheap but not so much Scandinavian expensive). The disadvantages are related only to the narrow beam, which I could live with.

On the other hand Quorning boats are doing great and I predict (and wish) they will be more fashionable in the near future. I visited the yard and was impressed by their small yard efficiency. They make one 28 every 10 days and one 32 every 15 days. Also their responsiveness and commercial behaviour is more adequate. On the other side as you have postednin the past Luffe is more custom made boat and I am sure they cannot build a Luffe 37 (the smallest model) in 20 days (if your measure time by foot). But When I asked why the new Luffe 3.6 has abandoned the low boards of previous models (I think the slightly wider beam does not ruin so much the image), the response was that it was made to meet then needs of the German customers who are taller and need standing height in all boat premises. This means that the boat was designed according to more to the customers' taste and not to Oluf's taste which I respect more. And the base price of the 3.6 is 50k EUR more than the 37.09. (Ex VAT).
Rumen
 
#4,546 ·
If you want your Family to keep sailing you should heed Paulo's advice and choose a larger Dragonfly or the Luffe.

I'm mad about the Dragonfly's as well, but... :cool:

I disagree with the Price on the 37, though I believe there's too many that likes them, not just for the nostalgia..

Thanks Paulo! Yes, I am much more inclined to pay a price per boat and not per knot. Otherwise I should end in motor boat. I think the Luffe offers 4 basic basic advantages: 1. Traditional looking boat; 2. Excellent monohull sailing including including and good pointing; 3. Quality craftsmanship outside and inside that you can also match to your taste and 4. Fair price (not cheap but not so much Scandinavian expensive). The disadvantages are related only to the narrow beam, which I could live with.

On the other hand Quorning boats are doing great and I predict (and wish) they will be more fashionable in the near future. I visited the yard and was impressed by their small yard efficiency. They make one 28 every 10 days and one 32 every 15 days. Also their responsiveness and commercial behaviour is more adequate. On the other side as you have postednin the past Luffe is more custom made boat and I am sure they cannot build a Luffe 37 (the smallest model) in 20 days (if your measure time by foot). But When I asked why the new Luffe 3.6 has abandoned the low boards of previous models (I think the slightly wider beam does not ruin so much the image), the response was that it was made to meet then needs of the German customers who are taller and need standing height in all boat premises. This means that the boat was designed according to more to the customers' taste and not to Oluf's taste which I respect more. And the base price of the 3.6 is 50k EUR more than the 37.09. (Ex VAT).
Rumen
 
#4,548 · (Edited)
interesting perfromance cruiser

Hi all,
having gone through the last couple of hundred pages here and among other threads especially the lenghty discussion regarding stiffness and suitability of boats like First 40 and J122 for cruising, in the Blue Jacket-40 thread, I would like to continue that suitability question here. Might be wrong thread, difficult to evaluate.

Having test sailed many boats this autumn (including trimarans), for fun and education, and having owned a Beneteau 36cc, Dufour 385, Elan 333, Olsen 38 pilot saloon, Benetau Oceanis 40, Dehler 43 CWS and Wauquiez Opium 39 (now) I find this question interesting.

The back ground of a typical customer, at least up here. This size class I think is the mostly sold today in the Nordic countries:

Someone interested in a boat around 35-38 foot (absolutely not over 12 m), absolutely under 3,99 m wide, preferably 3,75 m. Depth not bigger than 2,1m, preferably 1,8m. For a couple with occasional quests. For cruising all summer half year weekends and 2-3 months each summer. In the near future perhaps 4-5 months per summer. No immediate plans for ocean crossing. Much time spent at anchor but harbours always pretty close so 4-10 days between refilling of water and food. Sailing experience very important - thrill seekers, trimmers, want to overtake other boats. Going upwind no problem, sometimes even most rewarding, engine only used for in and out of anchorages and harbours. Also to be able to bring the toys -bikes, inlines, kites etc. Single rudder would help mooring in many cases. Wheel stearing for better autopilot implemention without heavy rudder feeling.

In the BJ40-thread there where many that equalled crusing with living aboard and having to be self-sufficient for months, which in this scenario is not the case. Furthermore, the holding tank problem was very fundamental to many in that thread. Sweden will forbid dumping the holding thank in the water from 2015. Personally I think this is shooting flies with cannons and I do not think the tousands of boats returning every sunday evening to the their home harbours during some few summer months will spend hours queing for an often very difficult accessible pumping out station before docking. Especially not single handed sailors so my personal take is that a holding thank of 60 l, being emptied off shore will be the norm also in the future up here. A removable porta potti is a good secondary solution. Can be emptied with dingy, either in harbour toilets or outside anchorages. Max € 230 000-250 000, preferably € 200 000.

So what are your takes for the suitable boat? J122 and First 40 too big. Dehler 38 etc. rather heavy. Archambault A35 too small? - just to mention some. RM1060 even if rather wide?

I guess the question boils down to how small and especially light can you go, for nice sailing, and still have the storage and living space needed? And will the load destroy the sacrifications made by buying the light perfromance oriented boat?

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,554 ·
Re: interesting perfromance cruiser

Hi all,

The back ground of a typical customer, at least up here. This size class I think is the mostly sold today in the Nordic countries:
Someone interested in a boat around 35-38 foot (absolutely not over 12 m), absolutely under 3,99 m wide, preferably 3,75 m.
Anders
With this preferable beam how could any of the Luffes fit in this taste trend? Are they bound to become extinct or as you said in a previous post they will count on a fewer remaining nostalgic customers.
Do you think that the wider beam trend in the recent decades has something to do (apart from the accommodations benefits) with lack of wish to sail to windward instead of motoring? Paulo I would appreciate your input on that. Do majority of cruisers in the Med use their engine instead of beating?

P.S. When I visited both Kolding marinas on that weekend (and also some others) it struck me: 1. 90% were sailboats (unlike in my region, the Black Sea and some parts of the Med I have visited, where motorboats prevail); 2. The average size was even less than the one you indicated (in my region I believe the average counts to 39-43 feet).; 3. I guess the average beam was 3.00 (if I am not mistaken) much less than the coveted one in your opinion. Well, it is also true that in the few marinas I visited in Jurland, Denmark, most of the boats were 10or much more years old,therefore no modern designs were on the float.
Rumen
 
#4,550 ·
J/122 looks nice but too long and too deep

Opium 39 lovely but too wide as per above. And with 3 double cabins rather big.

Olsen 38 was a very nice boat, mad by Olsen Yacht in Denmark. Basically it should qualify in this thread because up till today I have not been able to find an as good performance deck saloon in the 35-39 feet bracket by far. Only Luffe 43 DS is close (and a copy in my mind). And I have checked many. Mine this was destroyed by fire in 2007, hence the Oceanis 40 in a hurry. Only 12 has been made and the latest 2007 I think. Very nice sailors cockpit, hardly wisible deck saloon, wacuum glued teak deck, lots of smart finesses, like a performance version of the Southerly. They can still make them bout out of the mentioned budget.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,553 ·
Thanks Paulo,
I understand your reasoning and choise. Sounds like a nice day on the water. I am writing this from the saloon of the Opium. Tomorrow we will sail out for a week again.

Up here almost all marinas charge a lot more for boats over 12 m and it is very hard to find boxes over 4 m wide. Furthermore we often moore bow to or side to cliffs in the archipelago, which can be a challenge handling wise especially if you get a wind shift during the night. Futhermore there is the question of beeing able to tack and dock the boat single handed. Therefore I put in the limit of 35-38 feet

So what about these (french) racer cruisers at around 35 feet? Archambault A35, JKP 10.80 and so forth. Very light and with modern hulls for easy sailing short handed. Will they be too light and cramped for the described scenario? They seem to take off but I guess in cruising mode that might change rapidly?

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,555 ·
Regarding JPK I think the boat you should look at is the 38:Beam 3.99m, 5T of weight and about the same ballast (a bit more) and draft of the Opium 39 that weights 1,5T more. That would make for a stiffer boat at least upwind. Besides JPK is an incredible guy, a true sailor with a huge solo experience (racing) that will make the boat the way you want it and can give you a lot of intelligent suggestions. Yes I visited also the shipyard and was fascinated with JPK...with him almost all is possible and not for a lot of money.

Regarding the boats you mention probably the boat I was looking at at the time is a better option for cruising, I mean the JPK 110 that is still in production:

JPK

Beam 3.80m, Draft 2.20m, weight 5450kg, Ballast 2.200kg.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,557 ·
I also think one of the reason for the, by todays standard, extremely narrow hulls of Faurby and Luffe is the simple fact that the boxes are that narrow up here.

I also think that to some extent there is too much negative talk about going to windward with the beamy boats. I also have nothing against beating, in fact I very much prefer it compared to to reaching in the 8-18 knots. And even if I can not reach your angle of attack it is still pretty good and not uncomfortable at all, not even in a seaway of decent magnitude. I can easily outrun all normal cruisers (does sailing interested enough to not motor) and keep for instance a well sailed Dehler 36 behind. A good Comfortina 39 was tough though. Same speed but higher angle.

Regarding JKP 38, it is looking good but draft big and double rudders and tiller steering outside the wish list. Regarding weight that is still a puzzling subject. Hull 10 of the Opiums (mine is 11) was at the Paris show 2010 and have an officially verified weight bill of 5630 kg. Now they qoute 6600 kg. RM1060 qoute 4600 kg for a rather big boat wit a loaded interior while Archambault goute 4400 for the A35 while Dehler is up at 7100 for the 38. Very big differencies in my opinion.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,559 ·
beam and sailing upwind

I also think one of the reason for the, by todays standard, extremely narrow hulls of Faurby and Luffe is the simple fact that the boxes are that narrow up here.

I also think that to some extent there is too much negative talk about going to windward with the beamy boats. I also have nothing against beating, in fact I very much prefer it compared to to reaching in the 8-18 knots. And even if I can not reach your angle of attack it is still pretty good and not uncomfortable at all, not even in a seaway of decent magnitude. I can easily outrun all normal cruisers (does sailing interested enough to not motor) and keep for instance a well sailed Dehler 36 behind. A good Comfortina 39 was tough though. Same speed but higher angle.

...

Regards,
Anders
Anders the Comfortina 39 is a fast boat for a cruiser but I would not call it really a performance cruiser. Let´s say that it is in between a performance cruiser and a luxury cruiser like the HR or Najad.

Beamy boats have not a problem going fast upwind with flat water. It is with harder weather and waves that a slimmer hull can make the difference. With flat water a beamy light boat has a very narrow foot print, as narrow has a narrow boat with the same weight but with waves you have to consider wave drag and that is much bigger on a beamier boat (the wave if big enough will involve almost all hull and then all beam counts has wet surface). A beamier boat will also to carry more sail for the same speed upwind (and it can because it has a lot more hull stability) but that extra power for the same speed imply a passage in power and therefore more uncomfortable motion.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,562 · (Edited)
Najad went down together witn new owner Nord-West motoryahts. It took a long time until a real estate developer and a local motor yacht reseller bougt the lot. As saying goes right now there are not any plans to restart Najad.

Maxi is now owned by Delphia so is it a Maxi or Delphia - hm...but carrying the Maxi label,

Yes, I know that the more waves the slower a beamier hull will be. The message I wanted to bring forward was that these beamy boats can be rather nice going upwind in - as Yacht magazine also concluded in their test. And sorry, it was a Comfortina 42 with racing sails and definitively without all the extras I had on board. And it is a rather sharp boat. The Dehler 36 with racing sails and a competent crew, also without all the stuff I had on board and a dingy trailing after me, that I rolled ower did not either had a chance against that boat, as all the other boats doing the 15 NM miles beat that day up Lilla Bält in Denmark. Yes, flat water but also only 8-10 knots of wind.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,563 · (Edited)
Najad went down together witn new owner Nord-West motoryahts. It took a long time until a real estate developer and a local motor yacht reseller bougt the lot. As saying goes right now there are not any plans to restart Najad.

Maxi is now owned by Delphia so is it a Maxi or Delphia - hm...but carrying the Maxi label,

Yes, I know that the more waves the slower a beamier hull will be. The message I wanted to bring forward was that these beamy boats can be rather nice going upwind in - as Yacht magazine also concluded in their test. And sorry, it was a Comfortina 42 with racing sails and definitively without all the extras I had on board. And it is a rather sharp boat. The Dehler 36 with racing sails and a competent crew, also without all the stuff I had on board and a dingy trailing after me, that I rolled ower did not either had a chance against that boats, as all the other boats doing the 15 NM miles beat that day upp Lilla Bält in Denmark. Yes, flat water but also only 8-10 knots of wind.

Regards,
Anders
Nice discussion and I think in the end we agree.

Yes, beamy fast boats can go very well upwind in flat water and even with waves, even if not so well, because they are powerfull (hull stability + big ballast or big draft) but at at cost of a more uncomfortable motion.

Yesterday on the Corinth Golf, while must boats were motoring against the wind or coming back I was beating upwind with 20/24k wind and 1.5/2m waves on genoa only (sometimes full) making 26º off the wind (apparent) and a speed between 6.3 and 7.3K. In the end I made the 20K to the next port (directly upwind) at a VMG between 4 and 5K. That's the conditions were a narrow boat will have the advantage. Probably a Luffe 40.04 would have been even faster than my boat, certainly a J122 would.

Regarding Maxi and Delphia, I think Maxi will have a great degree of Independence, the same way Grand Soleil has under Bavaria ownership or Dehler under Hanse.

Guys, I have no internet anymore because I am crossing to Italy so I will not be around much.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,570 ·
Re: Oceanis 38

New promotional video from Beneteau:

Regards,
Anders
This is a very interesting video and speaks, quite clearly, to Beneteau's intended market. They start by making the sales pitch to exactly the person who is going to have to approve the purchase - the professional woman who is willing to consider the sailing lifestyle but may have misgivings about her ability to sail and about sacrificing comfort to do so.

Notice that the first half of the video shows the woman singlehanding the boat in "Daysailing" configuration. The experience is shown to be very easy and non-threatening - clearly our professional woman can step right aboard and sail this boat by herself, which is an important consideration as many women might be intimidated by the idea. These images are juxtaposed with shots of the open, comfortable, light-filled interior space, just like a vacation condo on the beach.

When the man finally arrives, in the second half, for "Weekend Cruising", the tone shifts to romantic getaway mode (notice the absence of children - again speaks to the target market). Note that conditions are always tranquil and our couple does not stray too far away from shore. No beating upwind in 30 knots for these customers, just peaceful motorsailing or reaching from romantic spot to romantic spot, unfurling the gennaker with ease.

I predict Beneteau will sell a lot of these boats to exactly these kinds of customers. From my perspective, I think I could easily "sell" my wife on this boat, except that I'd be deceiving her about my own true intentions, for which, alas, the Oceanis 38 is not the right boat. So I probably won't be showing her this video. Perhaps some Vendée Globe highlights would be more appropriate, after which I can be quite sure I'll be going alone. :)
 
#4,566 ·
There is a new Varianta coming up-the 37. She's based on hanse 375 and is to cost less than 80 000€. I cant post links or photos, but you can see the first photo of varianta 37 on Yacht magazin's website. I like the concept of inexpensive, well sailing boat. Hopefully they will eliminate some weak points of older 44(lack of anchor locker, stowage room)... With a few add-ons she could even look good.
 
#4,569 ·
Hi Paulo,

I hear you, the boat seems to handle well going to weather but no 30 knots and 3 to 4 meter seas yet. Beam is best I can tell you about in lousy seas. I hope over the next 5 years of sailing I don't ever have to sail to weather in over 30 knots and 4 meter seas, I'm sailing to enjoy.

About the downwind stuff. I've sailed down wind for a lot of years in conventional full to full cut away cutter rigs. In those boats and in close seas as I mentioned the problem was always rounding up on the surfing part of the wave. Not over powered but over speed on the down hill and a mast about 18 inched further aft than a sloop rig. We always seemed to pivot at the mast at least it seems that way. With the new boat we have no pivot we never want to round up just a nice sea kindly down wind ride. I could stand behind the helm, NKE on with hands in my pockets and never feel like I was going to get thrown off my feet.

The boat drives very well through wave when going up wind in normal conditions. We do not seem to get slowed down going through a wave as long as we keep her 45 degrees and not less in 2 to 2.5 seas. That's all we have experienced so far. We have sailed well to windward 32 degrees in calm seas.

When will you be back in Portugal? Send us an email. Thank you for the advice on wonderful Galacia. Great wine and great sea food, I love the fish soup and goose neck Barnicles. I caught a nice Blue fin Tuna in the Bay of Biscay small but at about 4 or 5 kilo more than enough for us.

Cheers

Steve and Tracy
 
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