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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > A harrowing tale from Cape Scott
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Thread: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-06-2013 04:42 PM
bwindrope
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

I'm with you Jackdale, and that is just good sense and local knowledge. I don't know what their forecasts were, as we were not in Bull Harbor with them, but assuming the strong SE winds were forecast then I wouldn't have gone either.

The day we went around Cape Scott it was a mill pond with moderate gentle swells.

But the interest of the story remains, and the chance for each of us to rehearse what we might do is quite useful. All the mental reps we can take about these sorts of calamities make us better sailors.
09-06-2013 01:06 AM
jackdale
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

When I am anchoring I will stop lower rode at about 3:1 and give the rode a little toug. That seems to help turn an anchor over and help it. set.

As an aside - I would not have left Bull Harbour under those conditions. I spend a lot time in Port Hardy getting weatherfaxes and grib files before I ever depart. SE winds are simply bad news. I might not have even left Port Hardy. Twice I have not gone around because of the conditions.
09-03-2013 05:33 PM
Faster
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by flandria View Post
......It's just that I have witnessed both extremes: dumping the entire chain-scope on top of the anchor, or, conversely, going forward full-steam with chain rattling out and then have the boat come to a rather sudden stop.
As have we... I don't think it's necessary to be as brutal as a fast forward drop.. esp with all-chain it puts a ridiculous load on the windlass.. But I think the 'dump the entire rode and then drag it out' approach is also flawed, the odds of a loop of chain grabbing an anchor fluke and preventing a proper set is just too high.

I think you need to be moving backwards slowly by the time your anchor hits the bottom.
09-03-2013 04:52 PM
flandria
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

Thx bwindrope for the comment.

My own observation starts with the premise that sufficient scope has been paid out when anchoring, to begin. This is when I, personally, suspect that the anchor is not doing its job, in spite of all the chain and friction, and, rather than hope for the best as we drag, start anew.

That said, I don't think we at all disagree on the amount of force/momentum/boat speed used when setting the anchor.

It's just that I have witnessed both extremes: dumping the entire chain-scope on top of the anchor, or, conversely, going forward full-steam with chain rattling out and then have the boat come to a rather sudden stop.
09-03-2013 02:54 PM
bwindrope
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

I don't think your points are necessarily wrong or bad, but I don't know that they are generally always true. Dragging anchor can happen for many reasons, including having insufficient scope. If that is your problem, then lengthening rode can absolutely solve the problem. For example, if you drop your hook with 2:1 on a lunch stop and then 30 knots comes up, you are likely to drag in a way that more scope might solve. However, if any dragging at all results in you hitting or something soon, it would be wise to raise anchor and go elsewhere!

And I can say from experience there is no particular reason to not back down hard on a Mantus, but of course this is a question of degrees. We are generally dead in the water when the hook is dropped, and so even by engaging revers and getting going we are pulling back on a length of chain from a dead stop and do not hit anything resembling high speeds! But we pull back good and hard and find the boat comes to a definite and sudden but gentle stop. There is no shuddering or calamity to it. You just stop going back and some of that energy gets translated into the boat straightening out. We do it this way every time and have never had any trouble whatsoever, and in fact, have had nothing but resounding success both in terms of anchor setting and retrieval.

And as for the CQR, the testing I have seen suggests the CQR is unlikely to dig in much no matter what the orientation. It is simply not good at doing so to any meaningful depth. Which again, is fine in most situations because the weight of the anchor and rode and friction with the bottom is enough to prevent movement in most conditions. But when it is rough, the setting depth and tenacity of the Mantus or other modern hooks makes the difference in not moving.

I read someone recently say that we make all this stuff too complicated! There are ways that is true, but one of the necessities and appeals of sailing is the technical aspect of things, so there you go!
09-01-2013 10:06 AM
flandria
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by katsailor View Post
I can see difficulty in setting the cqr type if it is laying in it's side. I think it needs to be in an upright configuration for the plow to dig into the bottom..
I think that the CQR needs to be on its side to dig in. The only other position it can have is to be on its back, with the flukes pointing up, and it certainly will not dig in when in that position. For the "pointy end" to be pointing down, it would be doing a balancing act which, if not impossible in a sandy bottom (for example) would be a rare event - and would give a good result.
09-01-2013 10:00 AM
flandria
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

While everything turned out OK in the end, we should also note that the panic could have been avoided.

I have been taught that, when an anchor starts dragging, you do not attempt to resolve the problem by increasing scope: you're anchor is not dug in and is unlikely to do so by simply lengthening rode.

If the crew had adhered to this simple notion, they would have hauled anchor before fouling their neighbour, and re-set in hopes of achieving a better result - as in fact happened after they untangled themselves.

Elsewhere I read a caution about backing up too powerfully to a Mantus anchor. Again, the way I was instructed was to stretch the rode by backing up gently, and then to gradually increase power to the maximum necessary: in other words, do not jerk the boat to a violent stop when setting the anchor.

Sounds right?
08-28-2013 07:54 PM
krisscross
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

How big was the CQR of the 45 foot boat? Good story for sure.
I sail a small 21 boat but my anchor is for a boat twice that size. Been caught in a few bad situations but my anchor never dragged.
08-28-2013 08:20 AM
Bene505
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentobin View Post
I would also like to thank Brian W. for his testimonial on a Mantus anchor that you can also read on his blog. I'm doing a refit and bought one and have been sweating whether or not I made the right decision.

Stories of Aeolus- Our Gulf 32 Pilothouse: Our Mantus anchor proves itself in all conditions at all times
Regarding next generation anchors... Since we changed from a CQR to a Manson Supreme, we have to be more careful how quickly we back down when setting the anchor.

Last summer, using our new Manson Supreme anchor, I had the anchor line already snubbed with an old (but thick) dockline. When backing down the chain went taut and the snubber snapped -- more like exploded. That would never happen with the old CQR. I'm so glad that I had a snubber in place. (I think I was about to do some charging in reverse, to keep some load on the engine. When anchoring, I usually back down with just the windlass keeping tension, without using a snubber.)

So now I worry about ripping the windlass from it's mounting on the bow. One has to be gentle with taking up the slack in the chain.

By the way, I used to always use 2 anchors. I'd even go for a sail and leave one anchor (Bruce) behind with a fender tied to the line. One procedure for pick-up was to drop the CQR while motoring up wind to the fender, letting out chain. Then you'd pick up the fender and the inertia of the (slow) boat helped set the CQR. At the right speed and angle to the chain, the bow will just come around when the slack is taken up. Easy double anchoring. Not sure I'd want to do that with a Manson, since I worry more about having a big jerking force on my gear after it sets. Now I feel that I don't need a second anchor, so the point is moot anyway.

Yes, the Manson Supreme is worth it. Not affiliated in any way.

Regards,
Brad
08-28-2013 02:17 AM
kentobin
Re: A harrowing tale from Cape Scott

I would also like to thank Brian W. for his testimonial on a Mantus anchor that you can also read on his blog. I'm doing a refit and bought one and have been sweating whether or not I made the right decision.

Stories of Aeolus- Our Gulf 32 Pilothouse: Our Mantus anchor proves itself in all conditions at all times
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