SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing > Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
09-08-2013 03:12 PM
wind_magic
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

I don't know a thing about these races so I don't understand why some of these rules are in place.

If everyone had to keep their boat under a certain length and width, why not let them do whatever they want as long as it isn't powered by anything but the wind ? Why does anyone care what weights they have, where they are located, or anything else, why not let them do whatever they want ?

If it's about sailing ability, then like "stock cars" you'd have to sail the exact same boats. If it isn't about sailing ability but is about the boat, then let them sail whatever they can put together, and sail in whatever conditions you get on sailing day.

Like I said, I don't know much about it, so maybe I just don't "get it"
09-08-2013 02:59 PM
Minnewaska
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

Imagine the investment that would have been lost, if Oracle was tossed out completely, as they should have been. Everyone from San Fransisco to NBC to the hot dog vendor would have lost everything, as there would have been no race.

I'm hoping that's why Ellison hasn't been banned yet, but will be.

If you like conspiracy theories, they may figure its better to lose than have it taken away later and have the tainted ETNZ win by default. At the moment, I prefer to think that ETNZ is just kicking their butts, despite their money and cheating.
09-08-2013 01:35 PM
blt2ski
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

SO what is the difference between a 2 point/loss penalty, and say pete Rose, Or College teams forfeiting a years worth of wins, and 2-4 yrs of not appearing in bowl games, losing scholarships..........I've seen worst.

If Ellis is shown to know what is going on, it is possible for him to be removed from ALL sailing races of any sort in the future, or the person responsible along with the who did the mods.........2 races at this point in time, could be minor as to what could happen!

Marty
09-08-2013 01:25 PM
wind_magic
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
The problem is the public really doesn't care. Fans need their teams and love their top performers. It's a gladiator kind of thing. Who cares of one person dies as long as it's exciting? I'm not saying I condone that, just saying from this seat, that's what I'm seeing. It's all about winning at all costs.
I'm a member of the public, and I don't care ... but that's because I don't pay much attention to these sports. The ironic thing is that the only part of it that I DO care about is that it stay honest, because if they aren't competing honestly against one another, what's the point ? Even if I don't care who wins, I'd like to believe that whoever does win deserved to.
09-08-2013 01:16 PM
JulieMor
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
and A-Rod and McGwire and Bonds and.......... it's pathetic.
The problem is the public really doesn't care. Fans need their teams and love their top performers. It's a gladiator kind of thing. Who cares of one person dies as long as it's exciting? I'm not saying I condone that, just saying from this seat, that's what I'm seeing. It's all about winning at all costs.

But should the actions of a few in the 2012 ACWS (where they were sailing AC45s) justify the -2 point penalty in the Cup Match that the Jury handed down to Team Oracle (where they race AC72s)? I can't see the connection.
09-04-2013 12:49 PM
shadowraiths
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

ALLEGATIONS OF GROSS MISCONDUCT (Jury Notice 103)

4. On 19th August 2013 the Jury issued Jury Notice JN103. Jury Notice JN103 included allegations of gross misconduct as follows:

4.1 Dirk de Ridder, OTUSA sailing team member, was involved in giving instructions and/or directions to shore crew to add weight into a king post of AC45 boat 4, or was aware that such weight had been added, contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

4.2 Sailor X1, OTUSA sailing team member, was aware that shore crew added weight into a king post of AC45 boat 4, and he was, or should have been, aware this action was contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

4.3 Bryce Ruthenberg, OTUSA shore crew member, was involved in the addition of weight into a king post of at least one AC45 in contravention of the AC45 Class Rule and was aware this action was contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

4.4 Andrew Walker, OTUSA shore crew member, was involved in the addition of weight into a king post of at least one AC45 in contravention of the AC45 Class Rule or was aware that such weight had been added and was, or should have been, aware this action was contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

4.5 Kyle Langford, OTUSA shore crew member, and sailor on Ben Ainslie Racing (BAR) in the final three AC45 Series, was involved in the addition of weight being inserted into a king post of at least one AC45 in contravention of the AC45 Class Rule and was aware this action was contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

4.6 Matthew Mitchell, OTUSA shore crew member, was involved in the addition of weight being inserted into a king post of at least one AC45 in contravention of the AC45 Class Rule and should have been aware this action was contrary to the AC45 Class Rule.

[...]

DECISIONS ON PENALTIES

105. Bryce Ruthenberg

Bryce Ruthenberg is excluded from further participation in any role in the 34th America’s Cup. RRSAC rule 69.1(c) requires the Jury to inform his National Authority (Australian Yachting Federation) and the International Sailing Federation, which bodies may impose further penalties; however, in view of his full, frank and early admissions, the Jury will recommend that no further action be taken.

106. Andrew Walker

Andrew Walker is excluded from further participation in any role in the 34th America’s Cup. RRSAC rule 69.1(c) requires the Jury to inform his National Authority (Yachting New Zealand) and the International Sailing Federation, which bodies may impose further penalties.

107. Kyle Langford

In light of his age and inexperience in an America’s Cup environment, the fact that he had no involvement in the work done and his truthfulness during the hearing, together with his sincere efforts to acquaint himself with the Class Rules since the matter came to light, Kyle Langford is warned to use his best endeavours not to be involved with any activity that may be in breach of a rule in the future. The Jury is not required to make a report to any federation.

108. Matt Mitchell

Matt Mitchell is excluded from sailing on a Yacht competing in the Match for the 34th America’s Cup until 4 races have been completed. RRSAC Rule 69.1(c) requires the Jury to inform his National Authority (Yachting New Zealand) and the International Sailing Federation, which bodies may impose further penalties; however, the Jury will recommend that no further action be taken.

109. Dirk de Ridder

Dirk de Ridder is excluded from further participation in any role in the 34th America’s Cup. RRSAC Rule 69.1(c) requires the Jury to inform his National Authority (Koninklijk Nederlands Watersport Verbond) and the International Sailing Federation, which bodies may impose further penalties.

link
08-10-2013 06:50 AM
Omatako
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

It is by now reasonably common knowledge Oracle AC72's were originally designed without foiling in mind and were thus deliberately designed to be stern-heavy to reduce the possibility of going seriously bow-down (that proved to be something of a waste of time as well).

This is also the reason why Oracle attempted to bend the rules under the guise of safety enhancements by proposing additional elevators on their rudders to aid level foiling

Given what is now known to have happened in the AC45 series and seeing how apparently level the Oracle AC72's are foiling in recent times, the measurement committee would do well to look for some strategically placed illegal weights in the AC72's as well.
08-09-2013 12:32 PM
Minnewaska
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

I agree that doping is different, it was more a parallel to the general state of professional sports.

I simply don't believe that mods were made to a 45 ft boat that no one other than some minions knew about, particularly the skipper. That point will undoubtedly be debated.

The point about TONE is spot on and what has been driving all these transgressions, with money being right up there too in most cases.
08-09-2013 10:50 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

a bit more, from the SAILING ANARCHY home page:

Quote:

The modifications were made over a year ago by a small number of team members involved in the AC45 circuit, without the knowledge of management or the skippers, and without having followed standard internal procedures. “Our team is very disappointed by this turn of events, and I believe that voluntarily withdrawing from these past AC45 regattas is the appropriate corrective action,” Coutts said. “Going forward we remain focused on our AC72 training in preparation for the upcoming America’s Cup this September.”
08-09-2013 09:34 AM
RonRelyea
Re: Oracle Team USA forfeits both ACWS season titles

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Cheating going on in sport....by Americans...I can't believe it! Larry, into the dust bin of disgrace with Lance.
aw, c'mon .... leave Lance out of this .... as Willie Nelson has said: "I think it is just terrible and disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike.”
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.