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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > series drogue or para anchor?
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Thread: series drogue or para anchor? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-11-2013 11:47 AM
Melrna
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

This is a great video about storm tactics, how to deploy a sea anchor in real situation and why you should use one.
You all want evidence, well here it is and the references. I have read, seen and own most of the references.
09-11-2013 10:07 AM
smurphny
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattt View Post
I read that in the '79 Fastnet race, several boats simply hove to, and the ones that did suffered no real damage. Does the JSD offer significant advantages over a simple heave to?
That was a story told by Alberg about his A35:-) The story goes that the crew just took the sails down and went below and played cards. They were probably just lucky because once breaking waves reach a height of around half a boat length, ANY boat will capsize if hit broadside by a breaking wave. That would have been around 17' for an A35. Waves were reported to be MUCH higher than that. Boats in the race and commercial ships in the area reported 65 mph winds and waves from 20 to 40 feet in height.


It's interesting to read this report:http://www.blur.se/images/fastnet-race-inquiry.pdf
09-11-2013 09:26 AM
outbound
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Been thinking if I lose steering can deploy part of drogue ( comes in pieces). By adjusting bridle should have some steering.
09-11-2013 01:20 AM
jackdale
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattt View Post
I read that in the '79 Fastnet race, several boats simply hove to, and the ones that did suffered no real damage. Does the JSD offer significant advantages over a simple heave to?
On many modern boats with a fin keel and spade rudder, heaving-to will tend to result in being beam on to waves. That is a invitation to a slam. Full keel boats tend to heave-to with the bow up at an angle into the waves.
09-11-2013 12:54 AM
mattt
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

I read that in the '79 Fastnet race, several boats simply hove to, and the ones that did suffered no real damage. Does the JSD offer significant advantages over a simple heave to?
09-10-2013 10:06 PM
outbound
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Have a JSD. surprised how much it weighs.keep it in the lazerette.Its a bear to get out. Probably will bring it out well before possibility of needing it for that reason.
09-10-2013 09:32 PM
johnnyandjebus
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Good stuff Jon thanks for the reply

John
09-09-2013 07:12 PM
JonEisberg
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyandjebus View Post
Hello all

A question about using Amstel. It is my understanding that 3 strand or braid is used for the JSD because it stretches, adding to the dampening effect. Amstel doesn't stretch, is this a negative? I have zero experience with the JSD and like the idea of using amstel, just curious about it's effect on the JSD functionality.

John
That's the beauty of the series drogue, not being a single-point drogue, it doesn't rely on stretch in the rode to achieve its 'bungee effect'...

The extreme cyclic loads on the rode of a drogue could present problems for nylon, as well. As Evans Starzinger explains:

Quote:

The primary reason such a high percentage of para-anchor rodes break in actual use (perhaps 80% of para-anchors deployed in extreme conditions have broken their rodes) is nylon’s extreme vulnerability to chafe and internal heat damage. The US Coast Guard and New England Ropes both have extensive experience with nylon failure due to internal heat generated by cyclic loading and recommend Dacron as a better alternative for a para-anchor application. Dacron, while not as stretchy as nylon, is an excellent shock absorber in these 100-600' lengths. However, from a practical standpoint, most people do not have a dedicated rode for their para-anchor and use a spare anchor rode, which is typically nylon. But we must all be aware that nylon has proven to be very vulnerable to failure in this application.

Seamanship FAQ.
Many voyagers are using Spectra for their series drogues. Steve Dashew uses Amsteel for his on WINDHORSE:

http://www.para-anchor.com/reports/dashew.smith.pdf





In addition to Amsteel being so much lighter and more easily stowed, and being FAR easier to splice than a double braid, is the utility of such a drogue being pressed into service as a shore line. As such, the fact that Amsteel floats is highly beneficial for such a purpose...
09-09-2013 02:23 PM
johnnyandjebus
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Hello all

A question about using Amstel. It is my understanding that 3 strand or braid is used for the JSD because it stretches, adding to the dampening effect. Amstel doesn't stretch, is this a negative? I have zero experience with the JSD and like the idea of using amstel, just curious about it's effect on the JSD functionality.

John
09-09-2013 02:04 PM
smurphny
Re: series drogue or para anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Here you go... As mentioned, it's in 2 sections, the heavier 3/8 section in the bag on the right will just about fit in another bag of similar size to the one on the left... For a bridle, I'll use a pair of 12' Yale Polydyne 5/8" mooring pennants, shackled to chainplates on the stern quarter, as per Don Jordan's recommendation...

One caveat to using Amsteel, or similar... Because the rope is a rather loose and 'slippery' braid, I think you need to do more to keep the knotted cone tapes from the possibility of getting pulled through the rope. I used small fender washers before the knot to (hopefully) prevent that from happening...

It's a fairly painstaking process to assemble one of these, you definitely want to plan it for a time when you've got a couple of good football games to watch, or something... :-) I probably got it down to about 4-5 minutes of time to attach each cone to the rode, and I think I have something right around 120 cones, total...


Yes, especially in making the cones from scratch. I have the plans and template to make one but the mere thought of the tedium of cutting and sewing up all those cones has so far headed off the project:-) The Amsteel idea is great. By the way, I did make up those cleat-filler blocks you suggested a while back. Managed to have one wash overboard when I forgot it on deck but they are easy to replace and work well to stop line from getting caught on the midship cleats.
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