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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail > DDW and bailing out
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-12-2013 02:09 PM
Rhys05
Re: DDW and bailing out

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I am not a big fan of preventers...
I sail shifty air a lot, and 90 degree shifts are commonplace. A preventer would keep the boom on the correct side, but perhaps at an exaggerated angle to the wind, causing excess heel, or worse broach.
Ah the pleasures of inland sailing... Just ONCE I would love to have some directionally stable wind without too many puffs so that I can play with sail controls more and see their effects with stable wind. Alas, it's not to be where I sail most often. Oh well! I've got lots of practice playing the mainsheet and traveler though!
09-12-2013 12:07 PM
djodenda
Re: DDW and bailing out

Typically, on a Catalina 22, when reducing sail, you reef the main before changing the genoa...
09-12-2013 11:27 AM
outbound
Re: DDW and bailing out

For us due to solent rig to gybe the genny you need to roll it up then let it out on the new side. Get more speed and much less drama going wind and wing. Can keep the set up for 15+ degrees either side of DDW with just little tweaks. Have line attached to end of boom on both sides lead forward to bow and then back to cockpit. Controlled with clutch at side of cockpit. Preventor line has break in middle with quick release. Takes a second to set up and switch from side to side. Use it all the time and still have a head on my shoulders.
90 degree wind shifts must be hard to deal with. Fortunately don't have that problem.
09-11-2013 04:54 PM
SHNOOL
Re: DDW and bailing out

Maybe it's just me, but I am not a big fan of preventers...
I sail shifty air a lot, and 90 degree shifts are commonplace. A preventer would keep the boom on the correct side, but perhaps at an exaggerated angle to the wind, causing excess heel, or worse broach.

The simplest/safest thing is to "chicken-gybe" and do the 270 to change direction...

But the RIGHT way, would be to "soft-gybe." Sheet in the main, lock the traveler amidships, start your move through the gybe, help the boom over. Coming from DDW to broad reach. We had to do 2 of these at the last couple hundred feet in our last race, in decent winds with 155 genoa up... It helps to keep the communications open with the crew (even if they are slowed with alcohol).

Accidental gybes are dangerous for every reason stated above... it's breaks spars, rigging, knuckles, and heads. It can swamp and or broach boats too.

For the record I try to avoid Wing on Wing as the winds pipe up mostly do to those 90 degree shifts I have to live with... but NOT practicing what I preach, we did a short stint at the end of the last race Wing on Wing, as well as 2 gybes. Crazier than that if the "RUN" had been longer, I'd have thrown the Symmetric up.
09-11-2013 03:11 PM
chucklesR
Re: DDW and bailing out

All you had to do was blow the jib sheet and you would not have been wing and wing. Nor would the boat have gone hard over.

I learned to sail on a catalina 22 and one of the things I learned is to not sail it DDW without a preventer.
I bring that rule to every boat I sail that has a boom lower than my head when standing on the cockpit seats (all boats for all intents and purposes).

I seldom use a whisker pole (don't own one).
With a preventer rigged, and no whisker on the jib you helm the boat to keep the jib full, and in the event of 'bad' stuff you simply blow the jib sheet and pull in the main to center. Even single handed it's simple, you only have to do one thing at a time.
Besides saving you from vodka infused idiots (the preventer would have stopped him) it also helps vodka infused helms men. You only have to steer to the jib.

Rig your preventer with a line long enough to reach a block on the bow and come back to the the winch/cleats on both sides.
Set the preventer with a clip/shackle on the boom and haul the boom forward with the winch on the other side.
Gybe by pulling in on mainsheet and letting out on the winch/cleated side, change shackles when centered and then trim to other side. You never loose control of the main, or the boom.
Saves gear smashing, and forehead repairs.
09-11-2013 02:55 PM
puddinlegs
Re: DDW and bailing out

At the risk of some offense, gybing, wing on wing, etc.. is all part of sailing 101. If you can't safely do this in up to 25 knots of breeze in a keelboat, the best thing to be done is to sign up for some lessons or invite more experienced sailors out with you and have them show you how it's done. You aren't a sailor yet if this stuff isn't mastered no matter how many books have been read on the topic. It takes time, mileage, and experimentation. A few sessions in a laser in 10-12 knots of breeze will also help a ton. And those sailors you invite to help you figure things out? They can probably even manage it all even after a beer.
09-11-2013 01:39 PM
Daydreamer22
Re: DDW and bailing out

I agree with what has been said regarding the Captain's responsibility, communication and not drinking while sailing.

I am posting to add a little technique for future reference. Sailing WW you are set to heave to. Come up without jybeing, back wind the jib, set the tiller to steer to windward. Here you can reef the main.

If your priority is to get the jib down, I find the easiest way to do this in strong wind is to blanket the jib with the main. If WW I come up enough without jybeing to get the jib to collapse, ease the halyard and let it drop on deck. I do the same when on beam or broad reach, just turn down more so the jib collapses. At this point I can stow or change out sail. After changing for smaller jib I can come up close hauled sailing on the jib, ease the main only until it luffs, then put in a reef.

I am mostly a lake sailer where wind can be extremely shifty and gusty and these techniques have helped me.
09-11-2013 12:42 PM
denverd0n
Re: DDW and bailing out

Quote:
Originally Posted by LooseDiamond View Post
Lessons taken from this experience: 1. Don't sail dead downwind and 2. Never wing/wing.
As others have said, these are NOT the lessons to take from this experience. This was not a problem with sailing dead downwind, nor with sailing wing-n-wing. This was a communication problem.

Good luck.
09-11-2013 11:20 AM
nolatom
Re: DDW and bailing out

I shall avoid the "are heavy-air jibes safe when some of your sailhandlers are drunk?" issue, as i think it answers itself, and may have been raised partly in jest at the outset.

But in heavy air or light, I have a suggestion for those who cruise or daysail with assymmetrical chutes. ( I frankly think syms are easier to jibe, even with the pole, since you don't have to "wipe" the spinny over itself to change tacks, but I find I must yield to the modern world on this.)

Here it is: Do go to wing and wing, that will get the spin "pre-jibed". Then, jibe the main. Much less chance of task-overload on you and crew, and less chance of the sideways forces on the new jibe overpowering your rudder and putting you into a roundup-knockdown.

(Racers typically have less time and more crew so I wouldn't preach this to them. But for us less-pressed folk, it's worth considering. Even so, it goes better without too much vodka ;-)
09-10-2013 04:52 PM
outbound
Re: DDW and bailing out

How do you like your Dutchman?
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