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Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

21K views 107 replies 19 participants last post by  Robcooper0767 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a P30 with 5' draft and sometimes that depth can get a bit dicey. Would love to have a Pearson 10M because I like the look and inside layout (head, with toilet and sink vs P30 and P32 layout.
Looking at:
1. P34 with Centerboard? Pros and cons? Can't do the 5'11 full keel. Is this just a P30 on steriods (especially wrt the interior?) (I like the aft head in the 33-2 for room and placement)
2. P33-2 with winged keel or Centerboard.....who's faster? Is hull cored or solid? I thought I read that some were solid, some cored....anyone have details, like year or hull numbers if they switched? Any concerns or problems with cored hulls on Pearsons.
3. C&C (yes, cored) with C/B, shoal, wing. Like the C&C above 30' - 33, 34, 35, 36, 38LF (big boat but no one says it's fast but PHRF is in the mid 130's......Hmmm, better than most I'm looking at). Which C&C's have shallower drafts? I'm going all over the web and it's making my head hurt.
4.Tartan (only Masthead sloops, don't want fractional. 3000 (would like larger), 33 and 34's are nice, 37's are wow!, but......
5.C34 and C36 wings, Centerboarders (I'm looking at so many boats, I think Catalina has centerboarders, maybe it's shoal)
6.Sabres, but price points are high, and, yes, very well built, but kind of old style interior (nicer P30 on steriods)...like the Sabre 34's, but the MkII's with the aft head are Way over my dollar value....but, they have MK1 CB's that are within reach ($).
King for a day would be the Pearson 10M - I just like it, beefy, accessible from wheel (main, traveller, jib/genoa winches......if it only had a different keel!!!!
Want to stay below 40k, would like 30's, would love 20's!
Bottom line: Like the Sparkman and Stephens "look". Sleek, fast looking, nice angles. Not so much on the square boats. But, with the Admiral and a 4 year old, need a good size cockpit, good creature comforts below, want some speed and fun....in other words, where is that PERFECT Boat???!!!laugher.gif
Understand: leaky window gaskets, stanchions that need rebedding, but what are horrible, stay away boats that have major issues, not just maintenance or, hey, they are 20-40 years old....what do we expect!!
Thanks
R
 
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#71 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I guess the question boils down to (for CB's),....If you take care of them on an annual basis, making it part of your boat work over the winter haul out, inspection, "alignment", cable, line or winch, are they really any more problematic than any other piece of sailboat gear, or part of the boat (ie. oil change, winterizing water lines, engine, taking care of sails........you all know the endless list of things to do.
Are CB's, when taken care of, just another "part"?
@Chef2sail:
I'm open to CBs for the reasons you mention and my question above stands to all CB'ers.
I was on a friends Pearson 34 just the other day and he explained, and it was right there in front of my eyes, on the port side of the cockpit, on the vertical "wall" under the seating area (like where some engine controls are), there was a cleat and no kidding, regular line, probably 7/16's, that came up from a slot and was simply cleated off. I notice some of the other CB boats had winch-like setups in various locations, cockpit, table in cabin, etc.

R
 
#74 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

C&C cb is one of the line led back from the mast to the cabin top winch. We have it through a Garhauer triple rope clutch so its a simple as winching in...throw the clutch. No need to tie off. Can't drop it down though, must be lowered with tension or the boat shudders as its weighted.

I guess the question boils down to (for CB's),....If you take care of them on an annual basis, making it part of your boat work over the winter haul out, inspection, "alignment", cable, line or winch, are they really any more problematic than any other piece of sailboat gear, or part of the boat (ie. oil change, winterizing water lines, engine, taking care of sails........you all know the endless list of things to do.
Are CB's, when taken care of, just another "part"?
@Chef2sail:
I'm open to CBs for the reasons you mention and my question above stands to all CB'ers.
I was on a friends Pearson 34 just the other day and he explained, and it was right there in front of my eyes, on the port side of the cockpit, on the vertical "wall" under the seating area (like where some engine controls are), there was a cleat and no kidding, regular line, probably 7/16's, that came up from a slot and was simply cleated off. I notice some of the other CB boats had winch-like setups in various locations, cockpit, table in cabin, etc.

R
 
#72 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

@chef2sail:
Noted above link and question about this boat. Do you know the answer about this keel?
"Here's one that has a 5'5" keel (That I noted in earlier page asking if this has an "unconventional" 5'5" keel. a C&C option keel, or something someone did through keel modification?).
1984 C&C Mark III 35 sailboat for sale in Michigan
1984 C&C Mark III 35 sailboat for sale in Michigan

Is that a Wing derivation, or something someone came up with on their own? It looks to clean, like a manufacturer would do, but how can I find out if you don't know? Can you (or I post this somewhere and find out without me reaching out the the owner/seller - until I'm ready to discuss all the specifics since I like this boat.
Thanks
 
#73 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

You're seeing major differences in centerboard hardware because there are major differences in boats with a centerboard (no ballast) and a swing keel (lots of ballast) or weighted centerboard (somewhere in between).

My understanding is that swing keels are the ones that you really need to keep up with. Having a 1000lb or heavier centerboard swing down with no notice would be a major liability.

A lot of the larger boats with centerboard appear to be built with ballast in a shoal keel, then a centerboard that swings down to improve windward performance. That style of centerboard can be a lot lighter and require a lot less hardware to raise and lower.

I have no personal experience with this, I freak out if I'm sailing in less than 10' of water (almost never happens around Seattle).
 
#78 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

In strong consideration are the Sabre 34 CB and the C&C 35 CB. I see a 37 (1985) in Newburyport, MA on Yachtworld that looks nice...CB boat. The newer 37-2's are probably out of range ($ wise), I like the 36 and 37 medium sized double (primary) windows in the cabin, also the 37 has the smaller ports up front in the vee (remind me of my Pearson) and that's a look I like. Also, like the dinette setup on the 35-3 (the large single window is noted to have leaking issues) and on the 36-1. It's interesting that the 35 and 35 are really 34.5 and 35.5, whereas, the 37 is 37.5, but has opposable settees (the more traditional interior on an early 80's boat). Noticed the one in Newburyport above modified the settee to be a partial wraparond and it looks nice (I've thought about doing this on a few traditional settee boats, like the Pearson 34 and possibily the Sabre MK1 to get that "comfortable corner" seating). The 37-2 (late 80's) is really 39.5 (aka 37/40).......who named these and what logic did they use....ha ha!
Yep, it all comes down to compromises and condition.....none of the C&C's are off the table, believe me.

I've got to note my interest in sailing fast - both up and downwind, that is part of the sailing fun for me. I do still enjoy going upwind much more than downwind.....it gets the blood going, bigger rush. Yes, the relaxing downwind run can be calming, and fast, but I like to work when I sail. I'm always tinkering, trimming, experimenting with the Geometry......doing the math and engineering to tame the elements - why I like to sail and not be a powerboater......(I do like to fish, another thread, another time!).....Now, I've never owned a powerful downwind sailboat, so it may be more fun than I realize, but I'll need to find that out.

The idea of "motorsailing" as my friend who has a very beautiful 30 footer with a large full keel (shoal - an Islander, I think) often does, is a last resort for me. I didn't get into sailing to motor around......I'd rather have a boat that can get the most out of the elements and be that family comfortable boat, hence, the thread.

I hear and have read the Sabre's are fast and can pace the C&C's, they are very well built and have a following that is almost rabid (that's good!). 34MK1's are much slower that 34MKII's, and now we are back to cost, the MKII's are probably above the $ threshold, I am definitely keeping Sabre's on the list, but can anyone shed light on the MKI's performance versus a C&C 35-3?, or the above mentioned 36/37's? Again, just for understanding and thoughts, I know what the PHRF's say for the CB's on C&C 35-3 (or even the 33-2 go go smaller) vs the Sabre 34 CB and it' not numerically close....A while ago the thread noted that 20 seconds is not huge, so don't worry about it. Also, I respect the notations that talk about experience and sail condition often trumps PHRF. Comments on Sabres vs C&C's in speed and comfort?
I know I'm looking at the "right boats" for what I want. You all are bringing up all the considerations I need to process to go out and see the ones that suit me. And, of course, in person can always result in a "nope - off the list".
 
#79 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Rob, I'm a Sabre 34 MK1 owner, but I'm not rabid about it. In fact, as I've been following this thread, I've wondered if you'd be happy with a Sabre 34 MK1.
From a space perspective for a family.

It's a pretty traditional layout with two opposing settees. I also happen to like a Dinette arrangement like I had on my Bristol 29 years ago. I've thought about it. But you'd lose a water tank to achieve that. The most comfortable berth on my Sabre is the pullout in the salon.

With the dining table dropped and open, you can't easily access the head forward.
( most of my dining is done on deck, so it's not a real problem for me)

An aft head would be nice. To drop wet gear, and not have to walk through the salon.
The 362's and the 386 moved the head aft. There's not a full shower in the 34, rather the old sit on the seat...shower head on a hose style.

The Centerboard is not a problem. It's not weighted and I really don't need it until the wind pipes up on a beam reach or above. In 5-10 kn winds you'd probably not even bother with it.

Regarding speed. I don't race my boat, so I can't directly compare speed of a Sabre 34 vs a CC 35. But, I like to go fast and I don't, in practice, see many boats my size running away from me. I put new sails on a few years ago and I'm quite pleased with her performance. I personally see no need for a 150 genoa. I removed the old one and put on a 135. I also went to a loose footed main, which has helped light air performance.

You're more than welcome to come up for a sail...if you want to kick the tires, so to speak. I'm always happy to have company. We could even fly the gennaker.
 
#80 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Tempest,
I chuckled on your comment about not being "rabid"....I was trying to think of a nice way to say that Sabre really does have one of the most loyal followings around, but then I remember the comments from the CAL, C&C, Pearson, etc owners who all love and support their boats (as they should!).
Yes, you've hit on the concerns of the traditional layout perfectly (don't understand the loss of water tank with Dinette comment since I don't know the Sabre setup....Can you explain that one? Does it apply to other Dinette boats (other manuafacturers) from that time period?
Dining on the deck is what most do. The table will probably be used in the evenings or on long sails when the Mom and daughter get bored or need some coloring book time and the table gets pulled out (or puzzles, whatever).
I thought the MKII's moved the shower aft, but last night looked at sailboatdata.com and saw I was mistaken, obviously thinking about another manufacturer (one of them moved the head aft in a later 34' configuration I think, but since we've talked about so many boats, don't remember which one it was).
I do know that the MKII is supposed to be "faster" than the MKI, and I do appreciate your information on the MKI.....the idea of "boats my size running away from me" may move the MKI down a bit lower down, but not out as they are wonderfully made and known for outstanding quality, maintain their value....a good thing for a used boat.
I have to give it to Catalina, with the Dinette layout, the aft head (I mentioned the shortened salon that was visually challenging)....they seem to have a pretty darn good package, Pearson 33-2 and 34-2 have this layout too...it's nice but a dinette boat with a forward head is still ok. Funding may drive the very traditional setup, and I just live with it.
I'll keep you on my list of very nice persons who offered me the opportunity to sail on their boats - thank you.

I will not limit my thanks to only offers of sailing, I continually want to thank everyone for their help on this thread.
Rob
 
#81 · (Edited)
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Rob, re: the water tanks on my sabre; they are under each settee. Port and Starboard. So if one were to convert a settee to a dinette, you'd have to pull one of the water tanks and probably some of the cabintry behind. Not worth the effort and loss of water carriage imo.

re: speed. I meant to say that my sabre is no slug. I don't think you would be disappointed in her sailing performance at all. I do tend to shorten sail before some others, but then I think sailing flatter is faster... burying the rail, sailing on her ears may be exhilerating but doesn't get you there faster. That's one reason that I took the 150 genoa off. I can fully deploy the 135 more frequently in our avg. conditions.

I can't really speak to it's performance compared to a CC... maybe next time Chef is passing though NJ/NJ we can race to the statue..from Sandy Hook. ;-)

The build quality is generally excellent, but there are things that I thought Sabre could have done better, that could reveal themselves in older vessels that were not well maintained. In particular, I was surprised at the amount of raw untreated wood..bulkheads etc. My exterior and interior handrails are just screwed into the core and a likely source of any water intrusion. I took them off 3 years ago and dug out old core and re-filled with epoxy. The chainplates penetrate the deck at deck level and if not re-bedded can allow water penetration. On the other hand they did things like install Spartan Seacocks, which imo are almost bulletproof.

While I have not kept up with all the Catalina models, I think they have done a great job responding to the design criteria of the typical modern family cruiser..who desire a little more volume and creature comforts below. I see catalina's everywhere I go on the east coast doing just fine.
 
#87 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Your Sabre is a great boat. Certainly can keep up with our C&C BUT I do carry a 150 and have a K/ cb

Rob, re: the water tanks on my sabre; they are

under each settee. Port and Starboard. So if one were to convert a settee to a dinette, you'd have to pull one of the water tanks and probably some of the cabintry behind. Not worth the effort and loss of water carriage imo.

re: speed. I meant to say that my sabre is no slug. I don't think you would be disappointed in her sailing performance at all. I do tend to shorten sail before some others, but then I think sailing flatter is faster... burying the rail, sailing on her ears may be exhilerating but doesn't get you there faster. That's one reason that I took the 150 genoa off. I can fully deploy the 135 more frequently in our avg. conditions.

I can't really speak to it's performance compared to a CC... maybe next time Chef is passing though NJ/NJ we can race to the statue..from Sandy Hook. ;-)

The build quality is generally excellent, but there are things that I thought Sabre could have done better, that could reveal themselves in older vessels that were not well maintained. In particular, I was surprised at the amount of raw untreated wood..bulkheads etc. My exterior and interior handrails are just screwed into the core and a likely source of any water intrusion. I took them off 3 years ago and dug out old core and re-filled with epoxy. The chainplates penetrate the deck at deck level and if not re-bedded can allow water penetration. On the other hand they did things like install Spartan Seacocks, which imo are almost bulletproof.

While I have not kept up with all the Catalina models, I think they have done a great job responding to the design criteria of the typical modern family cruiser..who desire a little more volume and creature comforts below. I see catalina's everywhere I go on the east coast doing just fine.
 
#82 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Tempest,
Thanks for clarifying....I must be getting old and need additional explanation :(
but I've got it now. I really appreciate the added info on wood, handrails, etc...it's just all good to know and note it to look at (to the best of my ability) and for a professional surveyor.
Everyone agrees that these are really great boats and again, thanks for pointing out things I should think about. ie. the table down/access to head.

Funny, never thought of that issue, and as I look at the specs/drawings of boats I'm considering on sailboatdata.com, I realize that MOST of them, with table down, do not have ready access to the midships head. It's not a dealbreaker in anyway, really, but it's funny how you don't realize these things until your underway and it becomes painfully obvious when the table is set for 3 or 4 and someone needs to hit the head.......what a "ha ha" moment! And, why most of us eat in the cockpit anyway...it's usually prettier.
Right now, I'm trying to figure out, should this issue with my P30 be resolved in a timely manner and I start to visit prospective boats, how I do that when so many I see are in New England and Michigan (most of them are!)......
 
#83 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Rob, So what I do when I have guests aboard is lower the table but not put the other half up and just set out a buffet "family style" and use 1/2 the table as a buffet table.

Then people serve themselves and sit where they want.. in the cockpit or down below. The chart table is often where I eat too. With the dining table only half out, access to the head is still maintained. So it's not the end of the world. Sometimes one or two of those little folding TV tables is handy to have around too. Stored behind the mast or in the wet locker.
 
#84 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I'm with you....I was doing that kind of math in my head when you first brought it up. It's definitely not the end of the world by any means.....the construction and other considerations of all "older" boats is really what I'll be focusing on. I must admit, the Tartan 37 still has my eye...it's just so pretty :) - probably priced out of my reach, but we'll see.
So many nice boats, If this happens, I'm sure I'll be happy with any of the ones we've all discussed, and when I go look at them, I'll focus my discussion on the particulars of the one I'm considering and have folks tell me more on the specific manufacturer/model ....
Best way ahead I think.
I'll also take a few of the folks up (you too) on their sailing offers if I can find time, to get firsthand....but, as smart as that would be, it's probably a scheduling nightmare for all...
 
#85 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Well Rob, I don't know where in Maryland you are, but I've got two weeks off before the semester starts on Sept 3rd. And I'm sailing everyday. ( except today..there was zero wind, so I took the dinghy out for a spin )

After Sept 3 I only work 3 days a week and will sail until November. So come on up. You're welcome to stay on the boat. I live close to the marina.
 
#86 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Tempest,
Thanks very much for the offer. We are heading to Maine and Mass for vacation this Saturday and will be back on 06 Sep. I'll check with the Admiral and see if I can sneak up there....and thanks again for the offer..
Rob
 
#88 · (Edited)
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

MODIFIED: (THANKS JIM)
Didn't mean to leave the impression I've necked down to only Pearson's....but looking for some Pearson-related feedback.

I've been away for awhile, vacation and getting back to work has been bustin' my butt..... I'm leaning to staying with Pearson since they are a good quality and price compromise........but still looking and considering many. Still considering Sabre 34 MKI's but price is questionable. Tartan's, love them but, too expensive I think.

. I have my eyes on a couple of Pearson's that may still be too far outside the budget, but that said, input on the following would be a great help.

So, regarding Pearson's.....The 33-2, nice boat. Has a CB on the one I'd be interested in, but note maintenance on CBs, but still like the CB for the draft. Problem: the ones I'm finding are no where local (see cost issues under P-34 next,

P-34 (1983-1986) CB still is my favorite, even if she has a not so great looking rear end.....hey, I like a nice rear on boats and women :) The boat overall, it just looks bigger, and has such a great cockpit (huge), seems that it would be comfortable when you have folks onboard. It's the "older deckhouse look, not as sleek, but a roomy deck too.

Problem......P-34 CBs are in Michigan and Texas (what I've found)..requires transport to Maryland and that's probably up around $5k or so added to the price, not to mention on site (airplane ride) inspection and survey. P33-2's are not so far, but still have extra costs.

These boats are in the $30's, and with added costs, might be too high for me to make it.

P31-2 has come into the mix a bit more. It's basically, when you look at it's layout, size and specs, a smaller P-34 (1983-86) with a narrower rear end.

Wing keel is only shallow option, fin is 5'8", so it's more than I probably want (would like it, but the draft issue does play big role).

Finding more 31-2's that might be in more affordable ranges.

What's the consensus on the P31-2? with wing keel. Understand they can have wet deck issues, and to look for hull to keel joint issues. Overall, a good boat (it is a Pearson, so I'm thinking yes)? Seen some say the price with 33-2 and 31-2 are close, so go bigger....couldn't agree more, but if I can get a good 31-2 for less, what's the group think

31-2, 33-2, P-34 (1983-1986) owners and experience with these.....chime in alot please!

Thanks

Rob
 
#91 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Wing keels? Not for me. If you sail, you eventually go aground. Wing keels aren't fun in mud. As for draft, use your depth finder and charts...it's no problem...you just have to stay more aware. But really, consider you draw either 3'6" or 6', in 7' of water either way you'd better pay attention. I've always sailed fins. Love the way they point and turn. I had a Cal 9.2 that drew 5'7", and it turned like it was on a lazy susan.

About NC, better spend some time there to see if you like the a.heat b. mosquitos c.the...culture (do you have diverse culinary tastes? good luck finding...oh...hummas?). And (I lived in Oriental for 2+years) on the Chesapeake there are endless destinations. On the Pamlico? nothing. Ocracoke is great but mot an easy trip, and once there you can be stuck for days by weather. Other than Ocracoke, really not much. Yeah Oriental is cute, but nothing there. New Bern is cute, but WAAAY up the river. Lotta crab docks tho....

And the Tartan is about ready! I've decided to shave the bottom. Varying opinions on the necessity, but I'm OCD and want her to be a jewel....
 
#92 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I'm with you on fins, but the boats I like are 5'11" fins and that is too long for Upper Ches. I checked with Tidewater in Havre de Grace, just to see what they thought. They have all under 5'6" and the only 6' draft basically never goes out, or so rarely due to requirement to come and go at a high enough depth.
I'm concerned about that NC issue of "not much to see when sailing". I'm ok with the other issues you note, one reason we are looking there. But, I keep noting to the wife that Tidewater VA is still in the lead for me. We looked at 33 houses there (drive-by's) all around the Norfolk area, from Toano north and in a large (more rural/suburban) circular route, Smithfield, Chesapeake, Moyock (NC), over to Pungo, and up to Gloucester. If I can stay off the Peninsula Traffic and find good schools, that area has Chesapeake, James, York, Atlantic Ocean, and many Bays (Mobjack, etc.) to explore and stay. I lived in North San Diego County, in Carlsbad, CA and sailed out of Camp Pendleton/Oceanside.....same thing as NC, out in the Ocean, around here and there, parallel to the shore, never really seeing anything but the same, basic shoreline.....very boring.
The Sabre 34 MkI has 5'6" fin, but prices can be higher than later Pearson's, and they don't look any different than a Pearson. I also read somewhere they used wood in places that can be prone to rot and you need to watch for that. The MKI's are in the high $20's and 30's, and probably compare to the Pearson 34's (5'11" fin are faster, and the P-34 CBs are no slouch either, in similar design/layout.
Any thoughts on the 1983-1986 P-34 vs the later (newer design P31-2 or P33-2's?)
thanks for the info.

Rob
 
#93 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I'm with you on fins, but the boats I like are 5'11" fins and that is too long for Upper Ches. I checked with Tidewater in Havre de Grace, just to see what they thought. They have all under 5'6" and the only 6' draft basically never goes out, or so rarely due to requirement to come and go at a high enough depth.
My 5'11" fin visited Havre de Grace this summer without problem. So there are two data points (coming and going) that may or may not have happened at high tide (no idea). Must be OK.
 
#95 · (Edited)
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I saw a Hunter Legend 37.5 and a 35.5 and, boy, were they nice inside....that said, I read alot about how bad Hunter's are (McDonalds of sailboats, flexing decks, etc according to the detractors). Any ground truth? A 1991 Hunter 35.5 Legend is a true 35.5 ft boat and (on the surface) alot of boat, good turn of speed, nicely done interior, for about the same price as a Pearson 33-2 (that is really a 32ft boat).
Problem 7/8ths Fractional versus Masthead (but at least not a full fractional).
Is it even worth considering.....at all? Are they really worse than Catalina's (according to some)
I would still love a Tartan 37-2 but I don't happen to have the extra $40,000 laying around.
R

Am looking at a couple of 33-2's and still have an eye on a P34.... I have to say, the Hunter interior makes these boats look bad....so, I'm looking at both aspects....SAILING still wins, believe me, but what you get and the dollars you spend DO matter.
 
#96 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I'll tell you what I've read, and I'm sure you've heard most of this..........When you search for Hunter info, holy man! People just really crap all over them. One thing I read that did puzzle me was a guy who said he was on a Legend, and "what a nice boat", but when he was trying to plot a course on the Chart table with the GPS, he had a very hard time reading the GPS because it was bouncing around from the deck flexing....

I saw a 35.5 Legend in Deltaville, VA,

1991 Hunter 35.5 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

not terribly far away from me at a reasonable price. Not sure why the guy moved the furler outboard of the well where it was designed (heard that the lines that go inside the deck to feed the furler can cause deck moisture issues so maybe that's it?) He also noted it's set up as a cruiser, and not sure what that means....may call on Monday?)

also, same price but farther away (1990 Hunter Legend 35.5 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com) with normal furler in anchor locker)

They are a little higher priced than I want, but everything is negotiable (I never would pay asking price, who would!)

Don't want to call and waste anyone's time, so have to consider.

To compare, here's a P-33-2 I like, just a few k less, but smaller boat....Nice looking, not as roomy inside or with the larger cockpit....but, other than possible deck moisture on stanchion bases (Pearson curse) and potential around toe rail (on the later Pearson designs)., This is a nice boat too.

1986 Pearson 33-2 sailboat for sale in New York

Last, but not least, looking at this one in Michigan, P-34 CB

1986 Pearson 33-2 sailboat for sale in New York

And, this older MKI Sabre 34 C/B

1983 Sabre 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The Sabre and P-34 are very traditional interiors and frankly, exteriors too (kind of dated look, but great boats)

The Hunter and P-33-2 are defintely the newer look.

Comments?
 
#97 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

A few random thoughts on your last couple of emails:

Furler lines run inside the deck: Sounds like a major hassle to debug and handle when things go wrong. They rarely go wrong when you want them to.

Pearson (85+) dampness: The toe rail will show up as damp with a moisture meter, but there is no wood core there to get damp, the side of the deck and hull are solid fiberglass. The moisture is from dirt getting into the hollow under the teak toe rail, the hollow is there to clear the deck/hull join screws. The mud and dirt that lives under there can at worse rot out the teak rail.

The stanchions on my 1986 Pearson were better bedded (with counterboring) than they are on most boats. They do use rubber gaskets that look like a terrible idea, but there was plenty of bedding compound besides those. I don't know for sure that they were never rebedded on my boat, but there is no evidence of it.

If you are measuring half feet you should call the Pearson 33-2 a 32.5 boat. 3' is still a big difference.

Quoting this one: "They are a little higher priced than I want, but everything is negotiable (I never would pay asking price, who would!)"

I've paid asking price on one boat that was listed for a very fair price, and have sold one boat at asking price because the buyer thought it was a very fair price.
 
#99 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

OK, OK!! I give up :) Good points both of you, seriously. and Alex, your information on the moisture/toe rail is priceless.....this is the first I've seen/heard it explained that way and that makes my looking a whole lot easier for that boat. I hope I can afford the 33-2, but not sure if I can. The 31-2 (according to threads, did have a bigger moisture problem, as I noted the one I looked at in Havre de Grace, MD has moisture 8-10" in from the toe rail.
@Alex - Is that still the joint and mud/dirt, or do the 31-2's have a bigger problem?
@Jim - ok....I get it.
The question is: What is a P33-2, a P31-2, P34 and Sabre 34 CB (MkI) really going to sell for if they are all in "good" condition. Prices are all over the map, and in some cases (personal experience here) we price things where we would like them to be, not what they really should be.
Price ranges, that is "purchase prices" for those boats in good condition?
Thanks
 
#100 ·
Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Rob,
Check NADA and BoatUS. Both should give you average selling prices for boats in average condition. Then you can adjust up or down based in the specifics of the boat in question. For example, If the engine was just rebuilt, that's worth something (maybe $2-4000). By contrast, if the jib and main are rotten or torn beyond repair, I'd knock off $1000-1500.

That strategy at least gives you a rational basis for an offer, rather than just going based on asking price.
 
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