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09-30-2013 11:09 AM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Thank you for your response Foxy, but at only $1000 I don't care what the resale value will be. I can anchor it on the pond for ornamentation if that's all the more use it gets. I want to sail the South Pacific eventually so I'm looking for a single-hander to become skilled on. And hauling it down to FL to use for the winter would be great as well. The Caxambas Pass is very accessible to me, but has many shoals and shallows, with very strong tides,and I need to be cautious about what I get out there on. So I need to know more about the how well the boat sails than what it's worth in dollars.
And it looks like the only way I'm going to find that out is to go get it.
09-29-2013 05:04 PM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Hope that you don't mind that I brought this from PM to the main thread. When I tried to respond, I got a message that I didn't have enough posts to send private messages. Go figure!

The sailing center that I refer to is the US Sailing Center, Martin County in Jenson Beach. It is on the east coast of FL where Marco is on the west coast.

I had never heard of a CL, but the pictures look similar to several other one designs out there. Unless the boat takes off and develops a fleet in your area, resale value will be low, just like the other hundreds of orphan one designs that never quite made it. OTOH, boats are, and never were, a good monetary investment. It is enjoyment you are buying and if you like the boat and it suits you, go for it.

Originally Posted by HollieMac
Thanks for your reply Foxy, I missed it earlier.
Maybe a Sunfish is worth looking into.Thre is a 16' CL that I'm looking at-I don't think they are commone enough for anyone to know. I posted an inquiry and got no responses, and that's a pretty wide audience.
It's a small boat that looks like it would sail well, but I know so little that I was hoping for advice. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

Maybe I can come visit your place when I'm in FL this winter. I have parents on Marco, but I get up and down the coast in both directions from there.
Where is your sailing center?

09-27-2013 08:23 AM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Thank you Paul for your excellent summary. The local (very small) club sails Lightnings and I was on one after having my Siren for a year and thought, my, what an uncomfortable boat this is! Duck! Duck!

I have noticed that not one of these old sailors ever goes out except on regular race day. Curious, why one would not take advantage of a good wind day to go out just for fun. So, I could fit in with the locals if I bought the Lightning, but I have a hunch it would give me more work than sailing. Your reply expressed that in realistic terms.

I don't want to race. But I don't want to just float around in a tub either. So your impression of both of those boats was quite apt.

There is an excellent buy on a very nicely kept Lightning nearby but there is also a 16 foot boat that looks similar, but is made by a much lesser known company, and is advertised as easily singlehanded with a mast that is easy to step by one, as well. I posted a query about it but got no replies.

Maybe you would be willing to take a peek at their website and let me know if you think it is a good choice. C&L Boatworks under products you'll see the 16' This one is a well used boat with only the mainsail, no jib or cover, for $1000, on a trailer, so I can get it home,though almost 3 hrs each way for me. I could order the jib and anything else needed for it. Or I could start looking for a cat. I seem to resist that in preference to a nice old fashioned boat. Thank you much!
09-26-2013 08:56 PM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Putting up a Lightning mast singlehanded can be done, but you'll want to try it with some helpers around the first few times. Missing the partners with the butt of the mast could be an expensive event. You might take some of the excitement out of the equation by attaching the backstay and perhaps the shrouds on one side to keep the mast from falling over in the opposite direction. Rigging and unrigging a Lightning can take a while, too, so you might be hard pressed to go out for short afternoon sails if you have to launch & rig each time you go out. The Flying Scot might be easier to rig. The mast is shorter and there are fewer controls to tweak, so setup might be quicker too. That said, the Lightning is probably the most comfortable of the boats you mentioned. It's a bit heavier and more stable than the others because of its deep steel centerboard. Its large sail area keeps it moving in light air, and can get it up on a plane when it blows. The Flying Scott will plane more easily, but can be a real tub in light air. The best thing to do might be to try sailing the different boats and see which would work best for you.
09-26-2013 07:19 PM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Thank You Rich for your great response, especially the links to the Portsmouth ratings.

Everything in sailing is relative to your conditions, and so all of the threads on which boat to buy for a "starter" didn't cover what I was looking for.

Since I would choose windsurfing over anything else on a good wind day, I am looking for a small boat to stay dry on for off-season sailing, which is when the wind is better inland. You would know all about that, being in PA.
And I've seen a couple of interesting offerings nearby so I get curious about these odd little bits of boat for sale. They all look like good fun to me.

I would LOVE to see a pic of your skiers behind your boat.
What an amazing ride that would be, without the sound of an engine. It takes less speed to wakeboard, so I'm sure you could get someone to be photographed in your wake. Looking forward to those pics! Thanks!
09-26-2013 09:56 AM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

Here's a listing of Portsmouth rating system for inshore centerboarders which will define the relative 'speed' potential of currently raced (and formerly raced) 'small' boats: Centerboard Classes
& (inactive) Centerboard Classes-Inactive

For 'speed' and versatility, ... and for sailing in relatively 'flat' water, Id consider an MC Scow, an M16 scow, or a 'bendy mast'/tunnel hulled M20 scow (with ~35 'control lines' - a 'handful' for a single hander but can be done); however, with 'scows' they need to be 'heeled well over' and thus the need for some wind to be able to 'fly'. Ive occasionally pulled a water skier with my M20s !!!!! .... also: Thistle, 420, Flying Dutchman, 505, GP14, etc.

With the current continued demise of small sail boat racing, if you look hard, you might find an unused one of these 'pocket rockets' sitting in a driveway, etc. and that may 'go for a song'. My first M16 scow with which I won a 'lot of pewter' was a 'find' from a 'junk pile'.
09-26-2013 09:18 AM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

We have a fleet of Flying Scott's owned by the sailing center I belong to. Mostly they are used for sailing lessons and recreational sailing by the members. They are very forgiving boats and very rugged. If you want a boat that you can take friends out in, its a good choice.
If you want to sail alone all the time, the Sunfish is a good choice. Easy to set up and fun to sail in a breeze. We have a fleet of those too, along with Opti's, Lasers, 420's, Hobie Waves & Getaways, kayaks, paddle boards and wind surfers.
09-25-2013 08:55 PM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

If you want a boat easy to single hand, go with the sunfish.

Lightnings and the scots are fun but above 12 kts of wind will be a handful singlehanded.

That said, if it were me, I'd learn how to singlehand the lightening and make a sailing friend for those days that I'd like to try setting my hair on fire.

Getting a dinghy planing is a fantabulous adventure.
09-25-2013 07:56 PM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

While a Scot is really meant to be doublehanded, I singlehand mine regularly. And it's okay with that up to about 15 knots, after that it becomes a bit overpowered, at least with my moderate skill level. They are quite difficult to capsize, you pretty much have to try or have something go very wrong. I trailer sail mine and raise the mast myself, but it's pretty heavy and not that easy. I suspect that although they are considerably easier to capsize, that a Laser might be better suited to what you're looking for. My .02.
09-25-2013 11:45 AM
Re: Lightnings vs Scots vs Snark vs Sunfish

You risk being in the water with any small boat including every boat on your list. it would take a jerk LEO to cite you for being in the water to right a boat.

That said, the fastest small boat you can buy would be a cat. The Hobie 14 is a single handed boat. The Hobie 14 turbo adds a jib and is still a single handed boat. Both versions can handle extra crew members.
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