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Got to Stop being Stupid

10K views 77 replies 36 participants last post by  smurphny 
#1 ·
Well I tried it. Quite stupidly I might add. However I am moving too quick. Allow me to once again put out my play by play to not only be ridiculed and called foolish but more importantly to stop another from risking the same fate.


I have been planning a solo overnight offshore trip for a few weeks now. NOAA has good forecast for Thurs to Friday all week with 15 knot winds low seas and 20% of rain.

Yesterday I woke up to a breezy morning. 'Great,' I think. I figured it should make for a more enjoyable trip to have steady winds and I do loathe luffing around out in light breezzes.

Skip all the provisioning and time passing. Jump to 330, 1 hour before departure. Well first I realized I have no offshore charts of the area i'll be sailing. :eek:pe, just coastal and ICW. So that put a wrench in my navigation of old plans. Secondly I notice the wind has picked up quite a bit. 20 knots steady with gust to 25 perhaps higher at the dock.

I stowe the dinghy on the dock with the surf board and prepare the boat even putting a reef in and testing it at the dock. Man the wind is stiff.

430 rolls around. West wind with inbound current ( not just slack). Lets skip the hilarious show of me lleaving the dock. Who ever invented dock slips for sailbiats with4 pilings in the slip before you even reach the dock is a sadist. Anywhoo, no other boats hit and no damage done. A very ugly departure however I assure you.

No problems all the way up the ICW to Ponce. I did notice the ICW was pretty choppy. Some water would spray my face in the cockpit from the plunging bow. Man this wind is stiff.. I should turn on NOAA.

Whats all this hazard talk? Small craft advisory what? Damn engine, cant hear great. Better call the Uncle. After a phone conversation and a checking of weather and Noaa websites all remains clear except forecast call for winds up to 25 with 30 possible Friday Morning. Wind out of the west by north west suppose to carry around to the north and a little north by east overnight into Friday.

Ive been feeling anxious since I put the reef in. I figured it was anxiousness about what I was planning to do but Anxiety and worry can feel suprisingly similar and at times I can be quite far from prudent which is no high mark in my log to be sure. I continue to motor up and reach the inlet. West wind had the inlet super smooth but man o man you should have seen what was on the otherside of the jetty wall. This is all on my phone but I managed2 pics and will upload later.

Sails still down (thank you lord) I begin to motor out of Ponce. Im looking as far to the horzon as possible and its breakers. Not white caps but big foaming tops of waves scattered about the horizon going East. Now this is where I should have sucked it up, said I gave it my best, and made a U turn with my tail between my legs on a course back for dock. However as I stated previous I was, and this is not light insult, being more than commonly stupid and I proceeded on.

It took one wave at least 6 but im going 7 + feet at the end of the jetty that took mmy broad ( i had to keep eastward until I passed the jetty wall and the end of the jetty has serious breaks on the north side) to let me know I had been very stupid and things were not a joke. Ive never been out on anyboat Bahamas, Marine Corps
Or otherwise that experienced a sea state like I was in. Rolling breakers with lulls for 75 meters or so after sets of 2 or 3 big ones. Wind 25+ steady gust higher. Wind on the beam and sails not even up yet. I set a course north north east making a tack 45 off the wind and waves catching them on quarters until the close to the 2nd red bouy. Enormous waves. Sky, water, sky, water. White knuckles, eyes scanning, avoiding worst spots, i really need to find a lull to turn around but I had to get distance off the jetty wall and those breakkers.

After 2 particular bad waves the second of which completely buried my bow and shuddered the entire rig I swung the tiller over and and 150 degree turned on a course east by south east now running. This was dangerous exceedingly. I even said out loud how stupid I was and now I didnt know if I was being even more moronic by attempting to come back into a treacherous inlet with foul seas. I did see that if I could reach the cover of the jetty wall it quikcly went to calm right behind it but I had good 1/4 mile or more to go.

I will if anything give credit to the skipper for his stick control. I assure you that my years of water and boat experience were invaluble during the next 10 minutes. Take them on the quarter turn north in the lulls, cover ground, next set rolls in, quarter on. Im making a 110 degree line course to the tip of the jetty wall close to the inside. Here is where I got knocked down.

I had 1 pr 2 scary waves.. i mean these were taller than the cabin top before they came and lifted me up and dropped me off sideways with barely the bow pointed corner in. Anyway I was at the spot. The spot where the jetty channel starts and the waves were breaking on the outside shoal. I see it coming before it ever hit. Biggest wave yet, even bigger than the first wave that hit when leaving out. I see it stacking and stacking. Its going to break. The wave broke on the larboard side of the boat and through its crest over me, the cockpit, inside the cabin, and down the gunwales. I was standing on the larboard side and was thrown clear over to the otherside of the cockpit and may have went over had I not been clipped in. The boat with not even sails set dropped down on its beam but the old girl righted quick and after the crest passed over we rolled up again.

I figured this last part out later. One more set of big waves to go. Not as big as last time, justttt inside the jetty wall so only had those off corner shooting in waves to contend with. Suddenly sput sput sput ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OMFG!!!! The engine died. The engine died right 30 feet off the end of the jetty inside with breakers rolling in behind. Sheet sheet sheet turn key start start START! Life. She stirs. Rumbles to almost sputters out again I throttle all the freaking way up to get gas going and then she rips it. Catches and load sets and boom now were off and a few seconds later I am safe and sound back behind the jetty in calm waters with an audience on shore thinking god knows what.
* I realized later that knockdown wave put the gas tank hard over no doubtadly uncovering the hole for the fuel. This allowed air into the ststem and accounts for the sputtering and slow start because I had no other problems before or after. Had the engine not started within 5 seconds I would have had to run up and raise the jib. With the wind I had it would have been no problem sailing in the inlet but the problem was where it died. I could have been hit broadside while trying to raise the head sail or worse got put on the shoal and rolled over by the breakers.

As it was I did raise sails and made the briskest run of this boat and mys life at 6.2 (per gps, never used knot stick) all the way down even through the drsw bridge. I made it back to dock at 810 with just enough light to float and kiss up nice in my slip like a pro compared to the fool I must have looked leaving with a cross wind and current.

So thats it. Another perilous adventure. Boat handeled the seas well but I would have not made it for 12 hours with conditions getting worse. As I type this in my phone its been raining since first light. 20% Noaa? Really? Geez. I should have never left the dock.

I know getting caught in that sort of weather is one thing, but seeking it out quite another. I will never allow impatience and inexperience to overrule my gut judgement again. I should have known when I put the reef in it was not the fay but id been having to put it off and put it off and all looked fine.. I seriously got lucky. Nothing broke, just lots of mess in the sole from the knockdown. I managed a picture while I was out but it does little justice unfortunately. If any saw the waves off daytona to canveral yesterday with the wind im sure they could attest.

Lesson is dont be stupid. I think its safe to play sailing solo like reefing the main. If you think you should do it, you should have already done it.
I.E. if you think you maybe shouldnt go out, you shouldnt.

Had I kept sailing I most likely would have lost the boat or myself once sails were raised. I could have only sailed relatively safe on a close reach taking the wavves on or right off the bow. Then I would have had big problems trying to get back with winds going up. I could have ran to st. Augastine but no promise the entrance would have been smoother and I would have needed a full day to motor back down the ICW.
Just should have never risked it. Could I have made it? If I was sailing Hawaii to the Marquesas I would have had no choice. Try or die. I shouldnt have tried it yesterday. Sailing up and down the ICW would have been the much better call. Live and learn. Thankfully I lived. Will post pics later in P.M.
will try again next week. Small craft advisory last until Sunday. Maybe next week will look better. Need to buy smaller headsail asap as well.
Harborless
 
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#36 ·
except forecast call for winds up to 25 with 30 possible Friday Morning. Wind out of the west by north west suppose to carry around to the north and a little north by east overnight into Friday.
The above was the bit where you tested the limits of stupidity. Please do some research into sailing weather in your area BEFORE you venture out into the gulf stream.

I used to sail a BULLET PROOF STEEL ocean crossing 38ft ketch and would not have set out on that forecast UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES when I was in that area.

I will give you a quick rule of thumb. If there is ANY north in the forecast period when you are going to be out in the stream DO NOT GO.

This is serious stuff, 25 to 30 knots from the north in the gulf stream is serious survival sailing. You won't find many videos on the tube on this, WHY because they were too busy trying to stay the right side up.
 
#39 · (Edited)
The above was the bit where you tested the limits of stupidity. Please do some research into sailing weather in your area BEFORE you venture out into the gulf stream.
I don't think the OP was anywhere near the Gulf Stream. He's going in and out of the Ponce Inlet - I'm just saying it doesn't apply here.

Gulf Stream Hazards

North-northwest winds up to 20 knots this morning becoming north-northeast this afternoon. Seas building to 6 to 7 feet overnight into Saturday. The approximate location of the west wall of the Gulf Stream based on data from the real time ocean forecast system on Thursday September 27th. 41 nautical miles east of Ponce Inlet. 33 nautical miles east of Port Canaveral. 29 nautical miles east of Sebastian Inlet. 19 nautical miles east of Fort Pierce inlet. 12 nautical miles east of Saint Lucie inlet.

Read more at Marine Forecast | Weather Underground
 
#38 ·
First off hats off to you for coming through unscathed and more than likely a little bit wiser. The whole time I was reading your post I was thinking "man this guy needs a roller." This was my first year with one and the difference is night and day, not just in normal sailing but in a situation you get out of control with. Last year I got caught out in a storm with winds that were sustained 25 with gusts to 35 with a hank on jib and non reefing main, it was brutal. Fast forward to this June, I have the admiral, my 18 year old son and 16 year old nephew with me and get caught in the same type of storm, but with a roller and main with two reefs. The admiral being the smartest of the bunch jumped in the cabin and shut the hatch, the son and nephew rode it out on deck with me as we reefed the main and pulled the roller in until the boat was manageable, and although we ended up soaked it ended up being a great learning curve for me. That's the one piece of equipment I'd look into buying, no leaving the cockpit, the ability to help control your situation and makes single handing so much easier.
 
#41 ·
Now, please go back and read stuff properly and realise those with lots of miles do know what we are talking about and not trying to stick a dick in your ear (Aussie slang for sticking a dick in your ear).
Is this the same as pissing in your ear? That one I've "erd" but never dick in your ear.
Dose Darnd Aussies never seas to amase me!
 
#46 ·
I have seen the stream come close inshore between Ponce Inlet and St. Augustine. The counter current completely disappeared and the waves were as bad as farther offshore. Only once, but that was not my normal area of operations.
We nearly lost a Viking 57' sport fish going into St Augustine and the 65' Hatteras going in ahead of me rolled his deck under when he turned to enter the inlet. I wanted to go in at Ponce, but the owner was aboard and wanted to try for St. Augustine. We knew a norther was acomin, but he thought we could beat the front because of the extra 2 knots or so of current. He was wrong by about 12 miles; from 37 knots down to 5 in ten minutes. And damage to the boat, even at 5 knots.
That's why I charge extra when an owner wants to go along on a delivery.
Lots extra.
 
#47 ·
I am a bit confused. Two weeks ago had great sail with winds out of north and 10 to 15 knot breeze. Now for fall and winter winds prevail from north so what am i to underdtand? No sailing until spring and a return of the southerly winds?
stream was 27 miles off ponce as of yesterday.

when is it cool to go in fall and winter with predominately northern winds?
 
#50 ·
I am a bit confused. Two weeks ago had great sail with winds out of north and 10 to 15 knot breeze. Now for fall and winter winds prevail from north so what am i to underdtand? No sailing until spring and a return of the southerly winds?
No, not at all. I am not leaving Georgia until November. Plenty of other cruisers will head south in Nov/Dec, heading to the keys and Bahamas. Just check the weather first.

What do you use for weather forecasts? Like Mark said, there could be a system hundreds of miles away, causing abnormally large waves for the local wind conditions.

A marginal forecast for us is 10-15 knots, and 2-3' seas. You may just see 20 knots of wind, and 5-6' seas with that forecast. At least we have.

For more serious passages, like crossing to the Bahamas, we'll step it down a notch. Again, as Mark said, you may find too little wind, and find yourself doing a lot of motoring. Still, better than getting your butt kicked!

We use NOAA forecasts, along with Passage Weather Sailing Weather - Marine Weather Forecasts for Sailors and Adventurers - PassageWeather, Windfinder - wind, wave & weather reports, forecasts & statistics worldwide, and Marine Forecast | Weather Underground

Also, I use Ugrib. It's free, but kind of a pain to get loaded and operational. Ugrib Free Download

I look at these. For me, if they vary quite a bit, there is probably some doubt about what the conditions will actually be. I either decide to take my chances with a favorable forecast (very seldom), or wait until things settle down and are more predictable.

Just pick a better day or two than what you had, and go have fun. You'll be fine. I can't wait for your next adventure!

Ralph
 
#48 ·
There are others here with tons more experience than me, but in response to OP prior stated concern about gybing in following seas, running on genoa alone completely eliminates the threat of a gybe. Perhaps that's obvious, but I didn't see it mentioned.

Virtually all my sailing is in protected river water, but last May I was down in Delaware Bay by Miah Maull Shoal when it started to blow and I was caigjt in 4-5' following seas. I did manage to get on the cabin top to get my sail down (no lazy jacks on my boat), and then ran on the genoa. Even with that, I had my hands full pulling the wheel all the way to port every few seconds to prevent broaching. It took both hands, and lasted about 90 minutes. I had a water bottle on my binnacle drink holder and could not pause long enough to take a drink. My mouth dried out so much I ended up with cracked lips, but I just couldn't grab the water bottle.
 
#51 · (Edited)
So you re saying you were running before the wind , 4-5 ft seas with a genoa. That moves all the force forward on the boat to te bow. As you dropped down the face of a wave it would pull the bow down. A recipie for trouble .

Wouldn't it just be better to reef your main and keep the center of force further back.

In my experience when my boat is overmatched because of sail area, the object is to reduce it, not shift the center of force forward. It makes the boat harder to handle. To gain control of te conditions balancing the boat is most important. One sail up, epecially the jib makes my boat more difficult to steer.

Dave.
 
#49 ·
Harbor, I think the answer to your winds question is : "it depends"

Wind strength is obviously a consideration. The source of the wind, The fetch and duration plays a big part in the sea state, as well as current, if present.

Is it wind generated by a frontal system? or land breezes generated by convection.
Is there a storm further out to sea that has generated a swell?

There's often more to consider than just the numerical speed.

Cold air is denser too.
 
#54 ·
Well for reiteration I had no sails up and really if you watch the video of ponce you would have a hard time with any sail raised with the short steef drops and more importantly the course I had to run to get back in safe. Sail up leaving and ive got to head east. Soon as i passed the jetty would have been broadside on so would have had to head upwind asap assuming I didnt get rolled first.
then sailing upwind id have to wait for a lull, like i did, and turn about. Without a preventer rigged gybes would be hard and fast not to mention the short period between waves. Chances are the rudder would get slammed far over and the next wave right behind would have caught me.

Assuimg i made it through those two courses now im south east of the inlet and i have to turn and head north west directly into the wind. So now i have to tack back and forth through breakers with no time between waves and shoals on the port with a rock jetty wall on the starboard... I really dont see sails helping much unless I was out deeper. Main only has one reef point fyi. I could not have went without both sails up.
if i had only the main I could not have sailed upwind back into the inlet. If i only had head I couldnt tack through the wind without stalling out and risking a broach.

It was just a stupid day to go out and i count my blessings i made it home safe with no damage done except to my pride.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Those waves look really ugly. Lots of power there.

Harborless it seems like when I was in my 20's I did a lot of this sort of stupid thing. I was always out in whitecaps or rollers in my 20's and now in my 40's I seem to always hit the weather perfect. You will learn it.

I always look at a surface map for the current conditions and then a day out. I like the post where someone mentioned the difference between convection wind and wind from a system. Although I looked at a national surfce map for Thursday and I can't see what cause those conditions.

Here is the sailflow plot for ponce during the time you were out - 18 knots turning North Most wouldn't have left sheltered water looking at that. The prediction on the bottom does seem to confirm Marks statement that conditions are looking better Sunday/Monday

 
#58 ·
The slope of your learning curve just increased dramatically? You'll never forget this experience and will now be a large factor in your decision-making process for future decisions. Congrats for bringing her home safely. Truly enjoyed hearing about your experience. I hope you still plan on doing your overnight trip.
 
#59 ·
Instead of a preventer, perhaps consider a boom brake of some sort. With a brake that at least slows down the damage that can be done by an unintentional jibe, you'll be less hesitant to use the main. With a brake, you also have less worry about burying the end of the boom and bending it. Setting up a preventer when going long distances in regular sea conditions is a lot different than trying to set one in breaking, changing, confused seas such as around an inlet.

With the main up, it wouldn't have been necessary to actually beat back against the wind. Having it reefed and close hauled with the boom centered would have provided some stability even if luffing a bit. I will often keep my main up even if motoring against the wind. If the sail can be kept full even a little, it makes the ride more stable. Of course if you're absolutely dead into wind, all it does is luff and beat the heck out of the sailcloth.
 
#64 · (Edited)
I wouldn't have thought this post would go 7 pages at first read...
The experience harborless had was, for him, (and for us), once safe and sound, both illustrative and positive.
My own occasionally harrowing stupid moments have also turned out for the best...thus far...and with the passage of time seem less drastic than the pulse-pumping moments they were at the time.. .Can't escape the feeling that one or two on this thread have taken the opportunity to disparage the poster. Though he himself was perhaps the leader(in disparagement), in a sense, I find it a bit strange that others would seem to almost pile on in a few of the comments I read.

We're all never sure when our judgment and experience (and exuberance) will be tested in the particular kinds of sailing each of us do...so I try to learn from what happened to others and attempt to keep any temptations to pile on at bay...But sometimes we fail(fall)...
Okay Harborless...wtf were you thinking that morning...?:) I can ask that since I have asked it of myself at times. One thing I'm sure of as others have said, the "stupid" guy stayed in that harbor morning(or wound upon the rocks of that jetty or worse).
You, however, you, went in quest of watery adventure and perhaps some trial (as humans are wont to do) and proceeded to learn some useful lessons and got back that morning, smarter and in one piece without help or rescue. In hindsight, it seems not so stupid...and maybe to quote the rockband "The Who"...it was just another tricky day...for you.
 
#65 ·
There is a lot of talk here of gybing in strong winds I have sailed at least 1000 miles in the south pacific and tasman sea with my no 2 genoa poled out the end of my boom and the main furled,this eliminates any chance of a nasty gybe and the boat steers a lot easier when sailing down wind all the main does is try and round you up big pain in the ass.Am glad to see you made it back safely a good lesson learnt.I never trust my engine ever and always have at least my main ready to raise quickly and my anchor is always ready to deploy.Dont let your trip put you off its all part of the learning process,and it sounds like your forecast is like ours down here if it says 20 thats the average it could be gusting 35 Happy sailing
 
#66 ·
harmonic

I'm just asking. I've sailed down wind on just the jib, but ....aren't there advantages to using a balanced sail plan if you forsee you might have to change course? What about using the main to block the jib so you can take the jib in if need be?

Seems to be a bit of commitment to running down wind on just the jib. If overpowered, then you better hope you can furl it later on.
If there is a chance of being overpowered.. I like the main there to block the wind in case I have to take the jib down.
 
#68 ·
harmonic

I'm just asking. I've sailed down wind on just the jib, but ....aren't there advantages to using a balanced sail plan if you forsee you might have to change course? What about using the main to block the jib so you can take the jib in if need be?

Seems to be a bit of commitment to running down wind on just the jib. If overpowered, then you better hope you can furl it later on.
If there is a chance of being overpowered.. I like the main there to block the wind in case I have to take the jib down.
hi sal Never had a furler in those days just hanks if it needed changing I just rounded up into the wind and dropped it no worrys,always had lots of sea room .
 
#71 ·
Many long distance cruisers use two sails forward of the mast and pole both out, making a wing and wing configuration without a mainsail at all. That makes a lot of sense for a 1000 mile trade winds voyage as long as weather systems are not an issue and steady winds are almost a given. Setting up that kind of gear in changing conditions such as you get on the East Coast is really not possible where wind and heading keep changing. You need more options than just a headsail. I worry about getting a headsail in if the wind pipes up and no main is there to head up enough to get the pressure off the jib/genny. Just letting the sheets fly and headsail luff wildly to try and roll it up is not a great situation. I think for normal coastal sailing that the majority of the time one should follow the old rule of sailing 101: main up first, down last.
 
#73 · (Edited)
Well, I'm not sure what part of the East coast your talking about, where "wind and heading keep changing"... :)

The pic I posted was taken during a sail out around Canaveral on a shot from Mayport to Palm Beach behind the passage of a strong front at the end of January... (the overnight temps in Palm Beach that night dipped below freezing)

The breeze never wavered much from the NNW throughout the trip, and my course only changed once upon passing Canaveral, perhaps a 25 degree change to starboard which was probably closely matched by the breeze moving more to the N once south of the Cape...

I can't imagine what other "options" would have served me better than my headsails after the passage of the front, and the wind started blowing @ 30+... My main would have had my vane struggling, and as I was singlehanded, reducing the threat of an accidental jibe was paramount for me... I've rigged my running backs so that they clear the boom and double-reefed main, so I can leave both of them on when double-reefed, but on many boats that's not the case, and an accidental jibe with the backstay on and unattended can be disastrous...

If you're not able to furl a headsail sailing downwind without using the blanketing effect of the main, something is wrong... Most likely, you've gotten caught with your pants down, so to speak, and have waited too long to furl it in conjunction with the building wind strength, to begin with...

Here's another example of the difficulty of sailing deep before the wind with a lot of main up... This is my friend Glenn at the helm of a Trintella 50 we were running to the islands, taken in the Stream off Hatteras... The Trintella has a massive main, and a relatively small self-tacking jib which is pretty ineffective DDW... We were rigged for speed, trying to get across the Stream before nightfall and the breeze began to move to the N-NE, so were overpowered with as much main up as we dared for the time being...

The Trintella has deeply swept-back spreaders, which can be a huge liability in such conditions... Steering that boat in those conditions took a lot of effort, 2 hours at the wheel was a real workout, and the autopilot wouldn't come close to handling the conditions consistently, or averting round-ups or screaming broaches... Had I been singlehanding or having to rely on self-steering alone, there really would have been no alternative to run under headsail alone, or so deeply reef the main that the boat would be for all intents and purposes, running under bare poles...

 
#72 · (Edited)
Hey Harborless.

I use this map frequently.

NOAASurfaceMap

I just check it during the week, measure it against sailflow and other wind prediction sites. You can see I am in a misery of calm. Good weather to hike or ride my motorcycle. Anything but sail.

Others will probably have better stuff, but i use this and its free. Gives you some idea whats happening and you combine with other info to get an overall picture.
 
#75 ·
I think its hard to say how sails up would have affected me that day out. I mean I understand the boat is designed for sailing. Without sails up the boat didnt know its ass from its elbow once the mast got to swining around, i was basically like a pendulum. However I still think with my 110 jib ida been in trouble with my headings.
Now that I have a storm jib I would definently go out with reefed main and storm hanked if I ever met the same conditions and would not worry about being overppowered by the wind.
feels great to have a storm jib to go down to now! Yay for derelicts!
 
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