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Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

23K views 123 replies 46 participants last post by  ltgoshen 
#1 ·
Watch this video...he has some great advice...



Why buy a brand new sailboat costing bank and having a monthly payment of like $1,500 spread over 20 years not including insurance, slip fees, maintence, hulling out, etc? You won't be able to enjoy the boat really at all because you'll be working 24-7 just to pay it off. Why not just buy a way way cheaper boat 20, 30, 40 years old and just put some work into it. At least that way you'll have the time to enjoy it!
 
#39 ·
A new boat is a good deal if you have the money to buy it and still have plenty left.

A used boat is a much better deal for most of us. I bought my boat, 20 years old, for $80,000. A new one just like it lists for $250,000 to $275,000. That would have been every penny I had.

With the money I didn't spend on the new boat, I spent about $20,000 upgrading mine and then still had all the rest of the money left to make my cruise really fun.

If I had had a million dollars, I would I have bought the new boat. But, I didn't.
 
#42 ·
I think its a matter of tax brackets. Some people have a lot of money and don't like hand me downs. So to check out sailing why not, make a few phone calls and transfer some money around and buy that new boat to see if sailing is cool.

Unfortunately for me $150k would not buy a new boat I would be interested in.
 
#43 · (Edited)
All you have to do is watch all of the yachts coming out of Trinity Marine, near where I live, to realize there are a lot of people with a lot of money, who insist on new. They are back-ordered several years, in fact.

One of my friends was the co-captain on a billionaires yacht. To say money was no object was an understatement. Costs just didn't enter the equation, on anything (he spend $30,000 once to have a non-essential part delivered quickly). I'm sure he would say, "Well if a ten million dollar yacht is all you can afford, you should just buy it and be satisfied with it." :)

Everything is relative.
 
#44 ·
They are back-ordered several years, in fact.

.... To say money was no object was an understatement. Costs just didn't enter the equation, .
So think of all the employment those rich people are providing.
From the design and build phase, to cruising, chartering, crews, technicians rpovisioning, even taht freight forwarding company, polish and wax makers etc etc etc.

They are doing well spreading the money around.

If we didnt have rich people we would all be poorer for it.

Mark
 
#54 ·
Still, even Trinity had a very difficult time weathering the recession, they were barely hanging on for awhile...

There's a fascinating new book out about the megayacht industry, and Trinity and the build of the yacht LADY LINDA, in particular... GRAND AMBITION, by G Bruce Knecht, a wonderful reporter/writer who also authored THE PROVING GROUND, one of the best books about the Sydney-Hobart disaster a decade ago...

I recommend GRAND AMBITION highly, the book was over too quickly, for me... The people who commission these builds definitely do inhabit a different universe from you and I... However, as is the case with virtually every single one of these boats, she went on the brokerage market pretty much as soon as the owner took possession of her...

G. Bruce Knecht, a former senior writer and foreign correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, contributor to national magazines, and an avid sailor, has just published "Grand Ambition," the story of the construction of the megayacht Lady Linda.

Focusing on a number of the personalities involved in the project, from the owners whose tastes and demands were paramount, to the ship-fitters, woodworkers, hull fairers, and systems technicians who did the work, to the Ponzi schemer whose crimes almost undid the whole effort, the story is brisk, effortlessly told, and absorbing. Knecht obviously had access to most of the central personalities involved, and spent many hours observing and then describing the details of their lives.

With regard to Lady Linda's owners, Doug and Linda Von Allmen, it is a cautionary tale. Construction was started just before the recent recession, and continued, amid rising anxiety, throughout. The 187-foot yacht was built by Trinity Yachts in Gulfport, Mississippi, with elements provided by companies in far-flung locales all over the world. Design specs and materials changed with the owners' demands as their finances waxed and waned, and workers scrambled to maintain schedules even as the future of the shipyard itself was in doubt. With the Von Allmens' wishes as flighty and changeable as Marie Antoinette's, there are times when, considering such an extravagant show of ego in hard times, the reader wishes for an insurrection at the barricades.

But there are two sides to any such extravagance. As a young, highly skilled woodworker named Mitch Davies says, "I'm glad Doug Von Allmen is rich. If it wasn't for rich people I wouldn't have my job." Davies, a New Zealander and a surfer, continues: "But it's not a goal of mine. I don't think it's worth the stress. And I think that if you want to be rich, you never have enough."

Knecht's story is a tribute to Davies and the other craftsmen and laborers in the ship- and yacht-building industry, if not to the industry itself. There are examples of incredibly exact workmanship and high material expense (a single closet door that would take over 49 hours of labor to build and varnish), with every detail studied and brought as close to perfection as long-honed skills could manage. These examples are juxtaposed against the hard realities of subsistence wages and grueling, often unhealthy labor.

And there are ironies: rare beech-burl veneers meticulously matched by Mitch Davies, and exotic solid woods, all perfectly covered in so many coats of varnish that they can hardly be seen, and look like plastic. Or Von Allmen and Billy Smith, the head salesman for Trinity, railing against illegal immigrants, apparently unaware that much of the hard toil on Lady Linda, including the often toxic work of fairing the hull and deck with fume- and dust-laden compound, is being done by such workers.

But Lady Linda does, eventually, get finished, many millions of dollars and many thousands of man-hours later, in the summer of 2012. At a yacht brokers' cocktail party on board immediately after delivery of the yacht to the dock behind his house, Von Allmen, weary of the struggle to bring the project to a finish, seems to confirm the words of Mitch Davies: "The magic has worn off a bit; we have been to so many places already. I still like looking at the water and the service you get on board, but there's a bit of 'been there, done that.'"

Grand Ambition, by G. Bruce Knecht: Constructing the Megayacht Lady Linda « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com
 
#58 ·
Still, even Trinity had a very difficult time weathering the recession, they were barely hanging on for awhile...

There's a fascinating new book out about the megayacht industry, and Trinity and the build of the yacht LADY LINDA, in particular... GRAND AMBITION, by G Bruce Knecht, a wonderful reporter/writer who also authored THE PROVING GROUND, one of the best books about the Sydney-Hobart disaster a decade ago...

I recommend GRAND AMBITION highly, the book was over too quickly, for me... The people who commission these builds definitely do inhabit a different universe from you and I... However, as is the case with virtually every single one of these boats, she went on the brokerage market pretty much as soon as the owner took possession of her...

I know one of Trinity's yacht orders was canceled because the buyer found out he had lost 1.6 billion when Madoff's ponzi scheme got outed.

You wouldn't know they were having problems to sail by their yard, though.
 
#47 ·
As a traditionalist.. there are very few new boats that I would even look at. I find most of them quite ugly (the new morgans are very pretty though) and I still prefer a deep full keel.. something that is very much out of style at the moment.

If I had the money, make no bones, I would be having something custom built. Until that Mythical day, I will keep buying 30, 40, or 50 year old boats, cleaning them up, and enjoying them as "mine"
 
#49 ·
Lets see, bought a 22K boat, then proceeded to put some 60K into it with sails, interior etc.....so about 85K. Could have bought a new version for just over 100K, and not spent all the time fixing it over 3 yrs, could have been sailing. Granted I did a pretty major redo vs some of you, but none the less.......

As far as new cars go. Just remember, if you buy a 3 yr old car, you have no warrenty to go with said car either. From a business standpoint, it is cheaper to buy a new car especailly a truck vs used. After some time, it costs more to maintain and fix a rig, than it cost to buy new. Hence why I have always bought new trucks for biz. For personal use, might make more sense to buy a used car. but have never penciled it out.

Marty
 
#55 · (Edited)
Lets see, bought a 22K boat, then proceeded to put some 60K into it with sails, interior etc.....so about 85K. Could have bought a new version for just over 100K, and not spent all the time fixing it over 3 yrs, could have been sailing. Granted I did a pretty major redo vs some of you, but none the less.......

As far as new cars go. Just remember, if you buy a 3 yr old car, you have no warrenty to go with said car either. From a business standpoint, it is cheaper to buy a new car especailly a truck vs used. After some time, it costs more to maintain and fix a rig, than it cost to buy new. Hence why I have always bought new trucks for biz. For personal use, might make more sense to buy a used car. but have never penciled it out.

Marty
With regards to cars, a three year old car sold by a new car dealer of the same make usually comes with a warranty. The cars are sold as certified pre- owned. That warranty covers the car up to 100,000 miles. Which beats the standard, 3/36 and 4/50 warranties attached to new cars.

Though most people get hosed buying cars, (even so called educated buyers) it usually a better financial decision to buy used.

In a study of the buying habits of millionaires, DR Thomas Stanley showed an interesting example of attitudes towards money. . A young 30 something box salesman always bought or leased new BMW 5 series, and kept them three years. A Doctor with an income three times higher than the six figure income of the box salesman bought only 3 year old off lease BMWs. This he did on a 5 year cycle. The doctor was a millionaire several times over. The box salesman though not expected to have the doctor's net worth, and in spite of having a six figure income, was essentially broke. The upshot being had the doctor had the same attitude towards money as the box salesman his net worth would be substantially less.

Draw your own conclusions
 
#57 ·
Used sailboats are more comparable to old houses than used cars. A solid old house can usually be renovated for less than the cost of buying new. Same goes with buying an old sail boat. Buy a clapped out 30 year old plus sailboat, gut it and rebuilt it, all up 50k to 75k plus the cost of the boat. Lot cheaper and just as reliable as new.

Reason: you are not paying for the profit margin of several layers of manufacturing and distribution.
 
#59 ·
you never have enough.
Therein lies the problem with the insatiable greed of mega-rich people. They could have every last nickle in the world and they STILL wouldn't be satisfied. To them there's never enough, only "more".

Kind of pathetic really - certainly vulgar.
 
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#60 ·
TJ,

Cars as you point out, I would believe. A truck as I use in my business, you never know what you will get with a 3 yr old rig! You may have a rig that looks clean, but has been overloaded or max loaded day in and out, with multiple drivers as I do to them. So at the end of the day, a new rig makes more sense. As by the time I sell them 5-10 yrs later, they are ready for a junk yard! I can also write off the truck. where as the dr is not writing off his car more than likely.

There is many ways to look at this depending upon how long one keeps a rig.

As afar as boats go, yeah, I would believe a boat is like buying a house. one can at times upgrade an older house boat for less than a new one. Again depending upon the type and style. what you are willing to put into it etc. I've seen people buy million dollar homes, then gut and remodel to the tune of 1.5 mil, and still only have a home worth 1-1.5mil! But they figure, by the time they live there for the next 10-15 yrs, they have made money per say on the home enjoying how it is etc.

Marty
 
#61 ·
THere are a couple of local yards that do large custom work, I know of one or two that are scheduled out 2-3 yrs, but due to something in the back ground, are very cash poor! Altho Delta and Westport yachts seem to be doing well and paying bills. I know of another local builder that is sold out for 6 months, and they build fishing boat from 14-28' from the mid 20's to just over 100K. Another building personal use tugs in the 200-300 range is also sold out for about 6 more months, producing 20 boats a month.

Marty
 
#63 ·
It's all relative and I don't disagree with the idea of buying used and when you are looking at older boats they do seem like a bargain, at least on the surface. However in my case I was looking at mid 2000's(2004 to 2006) boats in the 45 foot range and I was not impressed by the value proposition. Unlike powerboats, sailboats do hold their value and make the concept of buying new not totally unreasonable. Also given that there will be a relative gap in the used market after 2006 demand will outstrip supply as the economy continues to improve. Yes you can sneer at me for buying an expensive new boat but when reviewing my used options it was a no brainer. The new boat market is still struggling and dealers are willing to move them at lower prices than they would like to. That will likely change with time but I would not poo poo new.
 
#66 ·
I know a very wealthy man. One day he said to me, "I could lie to you but I am really rich!" I thought that was funny and,,,honest. He has been a huge contributor ot the Spike Perry Memorial Scholarship Fund. He has been very generous to me. He is accountable for a lot of guys having good, steady jobs right now. As far as I am coincerned he is the salt of the earth. He started with nothing. He's my friend. One of his hobbies is helping students who need financial aid.

I just take each guy as an individual and I try not to prejudge them.
 
#69 ·
Nothing wrong with being rich, in fact it's great - lots more people should be. I am simply contemptuous of people who live like & spend their money like pimps & drug lords.

Your grandmother was right - breeding counts. ;)

Now, how about we discuss "Why commission a brand new, custom designed $1,500,000 sailboat?"
 
#70 ·
Sooo,

Personally, I need people to buy $150,000 boats, and more.

I really, really need them.

If they were not around, I would not be able to buy that used $30-40,000 boat in twenty years.

The life blood of a used xxxxx market is new xxx sales.
 
#75 ·
shhhhhh...nobody is supposed to talk about this, he is part of the ruling class in the state media endorsed party.;)

Did it again...sorry, couldnt resist:D
 
#73 ·
Why buy a new sail boat? Ask why buy a new house? Some people want someplace that no one else has never used. Some people would buy that used boat, and replace the interior, the sails, the electronics, and anything else they wanted, they would make new panels rather than patch old ones. It is a matter for each person to choose. I wish I could buy a new boat, but for now, I will keep making mine a little more like a new one.
 
#74 · (Edited)
I don't see the mega rich as mega greedy. For sure there are some Gordon Gekko, money never sleeps, types, but most are more interested in making legacy than more money.

Buffet and Gates are giving mounds of money away. In Buffet's case more is being given away than he is keeping. For him, at least, life is now about self actualization. It's not about what he is( billionaire rich guy) it's about who he is (philamprothist who makes a difference).

While downstream on the net worth scale you've got people like Oprah opening schools in Africa and Angelina Jolie adopting underprivileged kids.

That said, these people live like few can. Well except for Buffet, who tries to maintain a grounded lifestyle, usually.

Now, if you want to talk about the kids of the mega rich? Yeah, there is a point to be made there about disgusting. Starting with Paris Hilton, these people are doing little more than just taking up space.
 
#77 ·
Hmm, does anyone else see a bit of irony in this thread?

Even if you are one of the cedar bucket, only buy used boat parts, frugal crowd you are still enjoying a sport that much of the population couldn't even dream of enjoying.

There is a certain relativity to terms like wealthy. :rolleyes:
 
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#80 ·
One can get into the finance or not, Either way, if you can qualify the boat as a 2nd home, you can write off the interest! So that may have been a factor in some folks reasons to finance the boat. EVEN IF they could have paid cash! Not a true right or wrong here! more of a pro con depending upon view etc.

marty
 
#85 ·
The common held view that the "American Dream" is accessible to all is misguided today. America has a very distinct "class" society focus on social class and wealth.

"Social class is probably the single most important variable in society. From womb to tomb it correlates with almost all other social characteristics of people that we can measure. Affluent expectant mothers are more likely to get prenatal care, enjoy general health, fitness, and nutrition. Many poor and working-class mothers-to-be first contact the medical profession in the last month… Rich babies come out healthier and go home to very different situations… Poor babies are more likely to have high levels of poisonous lead in their environments and their bodies… Rich children benefit from suburban schools that spend two to three times as much money per student as schools in inner cities or rural areas. Differences such as these help account for the higher school-dropout rate among poor children.”
 
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