SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Production Boats and the Limits
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
4 Hours Ago 08:43 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern

That, and the fact that more than their peers, Hunter seems to have pushed the design and style envelope beyond what we staid sailors deemed acceptable.
This is actually a great point - and a very, very interesting one. Remember all the hullabaloo about the arch when it first came out? Then all the trashtalk about the swept back spreaders on the B&R rig? This was YEARS ago.

Have you seen the new Beneteau Oceanis series? Heh-heh.

Oceanis 41 / Oceanis / Sailboats - BENETEAU USA
So, because the Latest & Greatest Beneteau features an arch and a deeply swept rig, their respective downsides are effectively dismissed, and the 'issue' is settled once and for all?

Damn, who knew?

Anyone know if a step ladder is included with the Oceanis, in the event one might have to attend to something on the boom? If so, I hope it's more robust than the average production step ladder… :-)


5 Hours Ago 08:28 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
You got it! Thanks for being understanding.

I really hate seeing the same post at different forums, but I'm going to post this here too.


I get frustrated when the Hunter haters get going....but why? My boat is a 1982 Cherubini Hunter 36. Most say this is a good boat, even the folk bashing Hunters (that know anything about Hunters). I really shouldn't take offense, because much of the negative comments involve the newer models (which I know nothing about). But I do get offended, because that is what I choose to sail, cruise, and live aboard.

After 4 Gulf Stream crossings, sailing the Tongue of the Ocean, crossing from the Exumas to George Town, or to Eleuthera, to the Abaco's (how deep is "blue water"?), and eventually back to Texas, I'm pretty happy with our Hunter. We've been back in Texas for 4 months after 2 years and 5000 miles of cruising. I re-bedded the chainplates today, and have gone through the boat thoroughly after getting back here. All is the same as when we left back in Nov. 2012. I certainly don't have any gripes with our 32 year old boat. And - we still live aboard and plan to head to the BVI's next year.

Personally, I like the older Hunters. But finding a good one, where the previous owners took good care might be an issue. Same with any other boat. We have close friends with a Pacific Seacraft 37, they nearly lost the rig crossing to Bimini, because of poor maintenance. I can't blame the manufacturer, can I?

Heck....I don't know what other people have in mind when they buy a boat. No doubt, the cockpit on a Hunter 45 is huge! I'd love it, because that is where I spend most of the time on the boat. And really, I'm just not into long crossings. I've done a couple. Long as in 2-3 weeks. I'll leave that to the crazy old guy (Webb Chiles) sailing RTW on a Moore 24, and Ronnie Simpson (young Guy) doing the SHTP on a Moore 24 and an Olsen 30.

Really, these threads are hurtful. There are so many new sailors ( or wantabees) that read the posts here. I prove that a Hunter is fine for cruising the east coast and Bahamas. Mark J proves that a Bene 393 works for a RTW trip, if you know what the heck you're doing. Smackdaddy proves that there is value in the Hunter 40 (I'd love one). Maybe the "haters" should post why *their* choice is such a great value, instead of thrashing us....the ones that own Hunters, or other production boats?

So.... for Jon E and the rest, what is wrong with my way of thinking?

Ralph
Nothing wrong at all, your boat obviously works well for you… If there's anything "wrong" in what you've written, I think it's in your perception of what I've been saying… :-)

I've long been citing the book DESIRABLE AND UNDESIRABLE CHARACTERISTICS OF OFFSHORE YACHTS as one of the most useful starting point in these discussions. "Characteristics" are for me what largely determine a particular boat's suitability for a particular purpose.

I'd ask you to find an example of where I've "trashed" Hunters wholesale or across the board. As a matter of fact, I recently spoke favorably of the HC 50, which I always thought was a pretty cool boat… Go figure, the one Hunter I really liked was perhaps one of the least successful of all their models, ever… :-)

So, if I'm being critical of a certain design or construction of a particular boat - such as the narrow side decks on the Hunter 49 - that does not necessarily mean I'm "trashing" your boat, or your "brand" of boat, across the board… If I say I would never own a boat with an aft-facing engine with a V-Drive that places the shaft log in a very difficult spot to access beneath the engine, does that mean I'm "trashing" the Valiant 40/42? If I simply point out the terrible ergonomics of the steering cockpit and helm on the awesome Trintella 50, does that imply that I have a low opinion of Trintellas in general? I think not, and I believe those capable of seeing through the red mist that appears whenever their own 'brand' is mentioned in a less than favorable will realize that…
1 Day Ago 01:02 AM
Bene505
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Exactly. Leaving the light on for Smackky. Funny we don't get these kinds of conversations in the anchorage either, nobody really seems to care what kind of boat your on, where your from or if you have the regulation bucket to boot.
Finally some recognition of the importance of a good quality bucket!

Regards,
Brad
1 Day Ago 12:09 AM
Faster
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

I think Hunter peaked with the late 80s early 90s Legend series (35.5, 37.5, 40.5) Nice lines, good interiors (esp later versions), really nicely proportioned, conventional moderately swept spreader fractional rigs. My wife's favourite boats are probably the C34/36, but if an equally equipped h35.5 was on offer I think she'd go for it and I'd probably be happier. My only beef with these is they weren't offered with a deep keel option.

To my eye the '6' series that followed were styled too much like Bayliners with backstay-less rigs. The round 'hot tub' cockpits did not appeal, and I can't say I've been swayed by the more recent Henderson boats, nor the newer Marlow boats. The first glass arch boats had some serious structural issues, the later beefy stainless arches were probably an improvement, but again I never cottoned on to the 'Hunters with handles'. These are all subjective/aesthetic personal objections - and nothing more.

And then they got into the MacGregor game with the 'Edge'... 'nuff said.

But aside from all of that it's pretty clear they've done a very good job of marketing and selling these boats, they've found a way to appeal to a large group of buyers (at least on the boat show floor) - it's hard to argue with all that.

The so-called 'Cherbuni' Hunters are seldom included in the anti-Hunter rants, I think they are good but uninspiring boats that have stood the test of time.

But from me the 'Legend' line mentioned above gets the thumbs up...
1 Day Ago 11:50 PM
IStream
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
This is actually a great point - and a very, very interesting one. Remember all the hullabaloo about the arch when it first came out? Then all the trashtalk about the swept back spreaders on the B&R rig? This was YEARS ago.

Have you seen the new Beneteau Oceanis series? Heh-heh.

Oceanis 41 / Oceanis / Sailboats - BENETEAU USA
The arch was a great move but the spreaders weren't the issue with the B&R rig. The problem was that they squandered the main advantage of the B&R, which is its ability to use a roachy, full batten main without backstay interference. It did save money on the standing rig though...
1 Day Ago 06:09 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
That, and the fact that more than their peers, Hunter seems to have pushed the design and style envelope beyond what we staid sailors deemed acceptable.
This is actually a great point - and a very, very interesting one. Remember all the hullabaloo about the arch when it first came out? Then all the trashtalk about the swept back spreaders on the B&R rig? This was YEARS ago.

Have you seen the new Beneteau Oceanis series? Heh-heh.

http://www.beneteauusa.com/Sailboats/Oceanis/Oceanis-41
1 Day Ago 04:23 PM
mstern
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Like it or not, Hunter Hatred is a real thing. It's a meme of sorts that may or may not have any foundation in reality. It's a little like the vitriol that is always raised when a Macgregor 26 is mentioned, but usually much less severe. I'd be getting annoyed too if people were always trashing my boat.
Yeah, it can get pretty ugly. For some reason, it seems to go beyond the hate that some direct towards Beneteau, Jenneau and Catalina for their supposed crappy design and construction. I'm not sure why, but I am guessing it has to do with the perception that Hunter had some quality problems a few years ago. That, and the fact that more than their peers, Hunter seems to have pushed the design and style envelope beyond what we staid sailors deemed acceptable.

Personally, I don't like the styling of the new Hunters (or the French builders either for that matter). But I do acknowledge that some of the innovations that Hunter either started or pushed to the standard are great features: (sugar scoop sterns, cockpit arches with travelers, plumb bows).

FWIW, my friends' Hunter 23.5 sails rings around my Oday 23.
1 Day Ago 02:14 PM
MedSailor
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
You got it! Thanks for being understanding.

I really hate seeing the same post at different forums, but I'm going to post this here too.


I get frustrated when the Hunter haters get going....but why? My boat is a 1982 Cherubini Hunter 36. Most say this is a good boat, even the folk bashing Hunters (that know anything about Hunters). I really shouldn't take offense, because much of the negative comments involve the newer models (which I know nothing about). But I do get offended, because that is what I choose to sail, cruise, and live aboard.

Like it or not, Hunter Hatred is a real thing. It's a meme of sorts that may or may not have any foundation in reality. It's a little like the vitriol that is always raised when a Macgregor 26 is mentioned, but usually much less severe. I'd be getting annoyed too if people were always trashing my boat.

I never really liked Hunters, and this opinion is based on three things:

1: What other people told me. (mob mentality)
2: They are ugly to my eye. (newer models as you mentioned)
3: They look underbuilt, which reinforces #1.

I must admit that Smack's hunter doesn't look like the curvy Hunters that I associate with #2. Smack's thread on why he chose his boat had solid reasoning in my book. Sequitur's journey has also given me pause for #3. As for #1, I'm happy to discount the casual "dock talk" that engendered it in the first palce.

My opinion (which was never really well formed) is changing favorably towards Hunter. Still, I see the huge Hunter Hatred and I'm not exactly sure where it comes from....

MedSailor
3 Days Ago 10:10 PM
RTB
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
No Worries, just pass the bottle when you sail by!
You got it! Thanks for being understanding.

I really hate seeing the same post at different forums, but I'm going to post this here too.


I get frustrated when the Hunter haters get going....but why? My boat is a 1982 Cherubini Hunter 36. Most say this is a good boat, even the folk bashing Hunters (that know anything about Hunters). I really shouldn't take offense, because much of the negative comments involve the newer models (which I know nothing about). But I do get offended, because that is what I choose to sail, cruise, and live aboard.

After 4 Gulf Stream crossings, sailing the Tongue of the Ocean, crossing from the Exumas to George Town, or to Eleuthera, to the Abaco's (how deep is "blue water"?), and eventually back to Texas, I'm pretty happy with our Hunter. We've been back in Texas for 4 months after 2 years and 5000 miles of cruising. I re-bedded the chainplates today, and have gone through the boat thoroughly after getting back here. All is the same as when we left back in Nov. 2012. I certainly don't have any gripes with our 32 year old boat. And - we still live aboard and plan to head to the BVI's next year.

Personally, I like the older Hunters. But finding a good one, where the previous owners took good care might be an issue. Same with any other boat. We have close friends with a Pacific Seacraft 37, they nearly lost the rig crossing to Bimini, because of poor maintenance. I can't blame the manufacturer, can I?

Heck....I don't know what other people have in mind when they buy a boat. No doubt, the cockpit on a Hunter 45 is huge! I'd love it, because that is where I spend most of the time on the boat. And really, I'm just not into long crossings. I've done a couple. Long as in 2-3 weeks. I'll leave that to the crazy old guy (Webb Chiles) sailing RTW on a Moore 24, and Ronnie Simpson (young Guy) doing the SHTP on a Moore 24 and an Olsen 30.

Really, these threads are hurtful. There are so many new sailors ( or wantabees) that read the posts here. I prove that a Hunter is fine for cruising the east coast and Bahamas. Mark J proves that a Bene 393 works for a RTW trip, if you know what the heck you're doing. Smackdaddy proves that there is value in the Hunter 40 (I'd love one). Maybe the "haters" should post why *their* choice is such a great value, instead of thrashing us....the ones that own Hunters, or other production boats?

So.... for Jon E and the rest, what is wrong with my way of thinking?

Ralph
5 Days Ago 12:46 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
Sorry.....to much rum. Hell, I don't even know where the Andaman Sea is. My apology to aeventyr60.

Ralph
No Worries, just pass the bottle when you sail by!
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.