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Real Cost

7K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  miatapaul 
#1 ·
Ok, let me introduce myself considering this is my first post. I'm in my mid 20's, an engineer, and it's starting to look like i'm going to stay a bachelor. Work has been... slow... so I've been doing a lot of day dreaming. Plan on buying my dream car this spring. (a Porsche 911 that I plan to drive year round... I'm a bit off)

Anyway, the point of my post, one of these days I plan on retiring to a boat and becoming a liveaboard. If all goes well, 20 years from now this will happen. (once I slow down...) I'm curious as to what it actually costs to live on a boat. Ideally I'd like to buy something that is somewhat blue water capable. I'd love to say pop over to the Mediterranean, down to the Caribbean, just sorta stick to the whole today i'm going thataway type deal. I know costs vary on size and everything so figured that might be important.

So basically, what are people seeing for say slip cost?
maintainence?
incidentals related to keeping the boat running?
Living costs compared to an apartment? about the same? more? less?
Fuel? Traveling I know i'll use some... but being a sail boat how bad can it be?
Anything I'm leaving out?
 
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#2 ·
It's good to have dreams and while I'm not really in much of a position to answer your questions, I will throw a couple of things out there:

  • I wouldn't assume that you'll be slowing down once in your mid 40's
  • The slip fees, etc. in different parts of the world may be much different in 20 years than they are now.
  • Whether you remain a bachelor or not, solo long distance voyages are inherently much more risky than having another capable person or two along for the ride
 
#4 ·
...I'd love to say pop over to the Mediterranean, down to the Caribbean, just sorta stick to the whole today i'm going thataway type deal. I know costs vary on size and everything so figured that might be important.
Welcome to SailNet.

Hopefully you'll soon realize that one does not "pop over" quickly in a sailboat doing 5 to 7 knots. Then, figure in the time spent voyage planning and provisioning and all the rest.

So basically, what are people seeing for say slip cost?
maintainence?
incidentals related to keeping the boat running?
Living costs compared to an apartment? about the same? more? less?
Fuel? Traveling I know i'll use some... but being a sail boat how bad can it be?
Anything I'm leaving out?
Slip fees depend on location, amount of amenities, location, boat size, location.

Cost of keeping the boat running depends on the condition of the boat, how much you can do yourself vs. paying someone to do the work.

Living costs can range from minimal to extravagant. It depends on what you want.

You're leaving out a lot. I suggest that you start with some books, check out the Living Aboard section of SailNet and also figure out whether you want to live aboard or cruise. There are liveaboards who do not cruise but most cruisers live aboard. There is a difference.
 
#5 ·
During the forty-three years that we have lived aboard I've seen slip rates rise from $50/month to $500/month; however, everything ese has gone up by ten fold also. You'll hear a great variety of cost from liveaboard cruisers, but "do-it-yourself" rules. Throughout all our decades of liveaboard cruising we have had more descretionary income than our colleagues with the same income who live in houses. That said, I'm sure there are many who don't deal as well with the mechanics and tasks of maintaining a boat with little costs. I know of people that spend thousands for what I accomplish with a few hundred. You're an engineer! ....so, you don't need to pay someone else to figure it out!
 
#6 ·
Ahh...to be in my 20's again and think 40's is old and a good age to "slow down" and retire in. Love the Porsche idea (nothing off about that to me)...but if you have those kind of tastes you better either have a lot of money coming or impose self control.

Mid 20's and you think it's all set you'll be a bachelor...bachelor or not find someone that shares and encourages your dreams so that's not the determining factor.

We all love your dream...start putting away in your 401K now. Lots of other posts/strings on this subject elsewhere (although you'll have to adjust some for inflation...but you'll get the idea). In the end it all comes down to what your real priorities are and what you're really willing to sacrifice along the way for them to become realities.
 
#8 ·
Ahh...to be in my 20's again and think 40's is old and a good age to "slow down" and retire in. Love the Porsche idea (nothing off about that to me)...but if you have those kind of tastes you better either have a lot of money coming or impose self control.

We all love your dream...start putting away in your 401K now..
You can get a 1999 Porsche 911 for around the cost of a Civic, do the work myself, assuming I don't run into the dreaded IMS failure and take out the engine it shouldn't be to bad to run. But yes, I do tend to have expensive taste. I also grew up making 5 an hour working for my dad in a manufacturing plant (he owned it) busting my ass so I tend to be... frugal. A lot of finance calculators will say I can afford around 50% to twice what I actually could bring myself to do when it comes to buying a house or car.

As for the 401k, i'm doing the max my company will match, and then more then that again personally.
 
#7 ·
I've been doing a lot of lurking lately. Anyway, let me clarify a few points brought up. By slow down I mean that in a MPH way... hence the Porsche and the Triumph motorcycle. Unfortunately I've can count the number of times I've been on a sail boat on one hand and have loved it every time. (BTW, anyone in New England need someone to crew?)

By pop over to the Mediterranean, I mean... well... it's pretty and you have the Monaco grand prix (i hope its still there...) so why not sail to go see it? be a cool adventure. And I do plan on being a Liveaboard cruiser. What's the point of living on a sail boat if you don't go anywhere?

I also plan on doing most of the work myself. Generally speaking, if I can't fix it, it can't be fixed... or I'm just lacking some heavy equipment. That skill actually got me my current job. I also have a few friends right now who I could probably con into coming along on trips... or just fixing things. Hell maybe i'll get lucky and find a girl.

I know I have a lot of reading left to do... Heck I don't really know enough yet to really know what it is I don't know. But i'm working on that. I learn fast. Right now looking to see just how much I need to get saved up to make this work. Figure i'd plan on whatever it is now, double it for inflation and add 25%. Cut interest rate in half... Should give me a starting point. Only numbers i've been able to find are "we were able to do this for 1000 a month" so I know you can do things on the cheap, but what about doing it comfortably?

hopefully I can talk my uncle into teaching me to sail. (he has a 41' boat from the the mid 80's that I've been on once... no wind that day though)
 
#10 ·
I'm 47, take my advice, scrap the Porsche and buy something newer that requires very little maintenance and continue the aggressive saving plan. maybe something that cab tow a boat so you can save on mooring and storage expenses too. You really can't put gear and a cooler in a 911. When you retire every penny matters.

Use the savings to buy a boat, build your skills, meet people and most importantly sail.

Maybe take the ASA 101-105 classes and get enough time under your belt where your vacations become a week long charter in the Islands or in California.
 
#17 ·
I'm 47, take my advice, scrap the Porsche and buy something newer that requires very little maintenance ...
+1

There is always something to fix/install on a boat. You'll find that you'll end up dividing your time between two high maintenance projects and end up with not enough time to enjoy either.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Questions
So basically, what are people seeing for say slip cost? $10 - $12 per foot per month

maintainence? 10% of the replacement cost of the boat per year.

incidentals related to keeping the boat running? I dont know, see above.

Living costs compared to an apartment? about the same? more? less? never done more than a week but probably a little less. After all you don't need a lawnmower.

Fuel? Traveling I know i'll use some... but being a sail boat how bad can it be? Its nothing, in the big picture.

Anything I'm leaving out? Tons of stuff I am sure.

Now-- onto my favorite part - the unsolicited advice!!!OK, I like your taste but --911's suck. They suck. And 20 years does not make a retirement unless you are Bill Gates. Not even close.

Get a GTI. They effing rock. Hatchback for your gear.

Furthermore, I highly recommend a Triumph Bonneville T100. You can't go wrong with that bike.

 
#12 ·
if he gets a -real- 911.. something aircooled. It will hold it's value and even appreciate over time as they slowly disappear from the land and the watercooled ones take over completely.

I do agree with getting a "Starter boat" now and just go sailing. It's why I got my Sea Sprite
 
#13 ·
My head was in a different place when I was 25 and I thought I had it pretty well together compared to a lot of my peers. But retirement was something I barely gave a thought to. I was setting a little aside but not a ton.

Kudos to you for thinking that far ahead.

A few years ago my wife and I sat down with a financial planner. It was a difficult process. He had us go through an exercise that basically asked us how much money we'd need per month to live the way we'd like to live in retirement. We also had to take a stab how long we expected to live and when we'd like to retire.

Of course like many people, my wife and I wanted to be able to travel. A boat didn't really enter the discussion at this point. ;) As we went back and forth over how much money we'd need and what we might have to give up now in order to get there, the financial planner finally stepped in and told us that he had some good news. He said you probably don't need to worry about having much money set aside for traveling once you reach 85 or so. You probably won't want to. We were like "Huh? Why wouldn't we?" He told us that the reality is that most people don't feel physically up to long trips by then and are content to stay at home.

I didn't really think of that as "Good News".

You're an engineer and I'm sure you can do the math. You're much more on top things than I was at your age and maybe more than I am right now. But you do have to consider the end of your life when thinking about retirement. Living on a boat might be great into your 70's, and maybe early 80's but make sure you think about what happens after that and plan accordingly.
 
#14 ·
Cost varies widely afloat just as it does ashore.

You ask about marinas but many cruisers anchor to save money.

In todays dollars a minimal budget with a small boat would be around $15,000. Moderate range typical for many cruisers is $25,000 to $50,000 but the sky is the limit.
 
#15 ·
Xort, that 50k/year was about where I figured including everything else and a boat payment for doing it today. If I call it 100k in 20 years (little more then 3% inflation) If i can make 5% above inflation in "retirement" that's around 2million. A surprisingly easy number to meet actually when given 20 years and... good returns.

unimacs, I think planning out 20-25 years is good enough right now, I can wait on figuring out what to do at 90.

Sal, I currently have an 06 Sprint ST. I'll post a picture at some point when I'm not at work. And I drove a GTI... nice car, not my thing. Drive a Saab 9-3 now, so along the same lines kinda sorta.

Mad, saddly it will be a liquid cooled one. However for no better reason then it's a 911 I don't expect the value to take a total plumit any time soon. Making it actually not half bad of an "investment" as far as cars go. As to getting a starter boat, anything that I don't leave in the water would require me to move and get a truck. Both of which screw with the long term plan based on the increased cost. There is a sailing club in town though with smaller boats that I plan on joining. Heck at the price there it isn't worth owning.
 
#16 · (Edited)
unimacs, I think planning out 20-25 years is good enough right now, I can wait on figuring out what to do at 90.
My point is that when you're trying to figure out what your burn rate is going to be, you can't assume it's going to be the same when you're 50 to 70 as when you're 70 to 90.

Our financial manager told us that we can expect to not be traveling much in our 80s and 90s so that saves some money. That's the financial upside. The downside is that you will most likely become increasingly reliant on other people for your care. Maybe family members and friends can do that, maybe not. You have to plan for the maybe not contingency and that can get expensive. Lots of people are buying long term care policies once they reach a certain age. That may be difficult for you to do at 60 if you're on a fixed income. You could purchase a policy right before you're about to retire and it probably would't be that expensive. You just need to allow for it.

Note: You have to think about your family health history. If all of your relatives are basically healthy until 70 and then drop dead, a long term health care policy is a waste of money. And in your case if you remain a bachelor you don't really need to worry about one spouse's health care costs decimating the amount of savings available to the other spouse.
 
#19 ·
There are people getting by on $5k a year on the hook, scraping their bottom themselves and eating simply.

Low end is usually about $20k a year.

But buy a 50ft cat and plan to stay in marinas then $20k won't cover your marina bill and it will be WAAAAY more than that in parts of the Med.

BTW keep the ride. Life is to short to drive something boring. Mine was a Ducati and I spent to much but boy when those Termagonis were wailing it was all worth while.
 
#20 ·
Personally I love the triple at WFO. I have only made my peice with one twin out of the handful i've ridden, which was my friends SV1000.

And thanks for the data point. Sounds like for doing it today I'd be comfortable calling it 50k a year for a 30something (maybe 40) foot monohull.
 
#21 ·
Ok, The OP asked what it really costs didn't he? Well I haven't seen any real numbers, so I'll start with this.
My wife and I live aboard a 39' Catalina in Portland Oregon We have a 40' slip to cover the overall length. We pay $279.00 mo. plus $125.00 for a live aboard fee which covers water,garbage, showers, parking & free ice if you need it. We use a combination of 1 small space heater and a Dickinson propane heater, we cook with propane, we never use the marina shower simply because it's less hastle using our own. Our elect. bill goes from $15.00 in summer to $110.00 in feb. in winter we use about 6-10 gal. of propane per month at $2.79/gal. Other than that, what boat repairs are necessary will depend on your boat and how you use it.
Hope the numbers will help you in making your decisions.
ps. welcome aboard
I'm retired electrician/marine mechanic so I don't usually need any outside help.
 
#25 ·
Liveaboard slips can be found from the Chesapeake and down through Florida for about $11/ft/month. New Jersey and North is generally more expensive and the resort marinas in South Florida are more expensive. Places can be found for less by shopping around, but they may be in less desirable locations. There are also places that have rates of $25/ft/month, but they don't appear to offer any justification for these rates other than to appear exclusive.
 
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