SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

U.S.-Bahamas, Crossing the Stream

17K views 59 replies 18 participants last post by  smurphny 
#1 ·
Good morning,

My father and I have just completed leg 1 of our journey, taking our '98 Dufour 45 classic down the Chesapeake, through the ICW to Charleston, SC. We're taking a two weeks off to perform boat maintenance, plan, etc.

Knowing that a north wind makes the Gulf Stream nearly unpassable I was thinking about taking the ICW further South in order to make days not suitable for crossing productive. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find many established routes south of Hilton Head, SC until Florida. Why does no one seem interested in crossing from say Savannah, Georgia? Are there good departure points between Charleston, SC and North Florida aiming for the Abacos? Any advice or experience that can be shared is greatly appreciated, if anyone has questions about our ICW experience I would be happy to share (although my knowledge is limited to one trip, albeit a very pleasant and successful one).
 
#33 ·
Why would you be restricted to the ICW south of Jax?

I'm new to this, so forgive the ignorance of my question, but if your goal is to gain offshore experience while still staying safe, wouldn't it make sense to stay within 3-5 miles offshore (or more if you prefer and the current isn't too bad in opposition) and sail straight through for a few days? That give you the experience you want while still keeping you close for an easy rescue should issues arise. Personally, I'd want that as my shake-down for boat and crew before trying to cross the ICW head-on. Clearly, if you're only doing 75 miles a day, you aren't sailing 24 hours a day. If you haven't done that already, how can you be sure you're all really up for the task?

I'm also surprised that you're only making 75 statute miles a day. My 31 did better than that on our trip.
 
#34 ·
Jimgo,

We did 75 miles doing roughly 6 knots @2500rpm. When I say in a day, days were typically 7a-5p. I think we could run offshore, but inside of the Gulf Stream from SC to Jacksonville, FL. After Jacksonville, the Stream starts pressing very close to shore, so I envision fighting the current too much if trying an offshore leg from say Jacksonville to Ft. Lauderdale, although I have not tried so I speak from research and hypothesis, not experience.
 
#35 ·
Jimgo,

We ran typically from 7a-5p down the ICW, going about 6 knots @2500rpm. I do believe we could have ran 6a-6p and gotten +75 mi in a day, maybe even 100 mi with favorable currents or running the motor harder. We had planned of 50mi/day, so 75 was plenty good.

We could certainly do an offshore run from SC to Jacksonville, FL and stay inside the Gulf Stream. In fact, it looks like there is a counter-current running right off the coast in that stretch (this info. comes from buoyweather.com, but passageweather.com is a good free resource). After Jacksonville the Stream gets closer to shore, so I'm not sure you could run down the coast beyond there without fighting current the whole way. My research suggests after Jacksonville we'd want to go back inside to say Lauderdale, but I don't have experience in those waters so I can't say for sure. I'd imagine other members of the Forum would be of greater assistance with that question.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Good morning,

My father and I have just completed leg 1 of our journey, taking our '98 Dufour 45 classic down the Chesapeake, through the ICW to Charleston, SC.
How was that part of the trip? We had planned to make it up to the Chesapeake, but gave up and stayed in Georgia for this hurricane season. It was July when we got here, and afternoon thunderstorms were nasty. The Georgia ICW seems pretty challenging, even considering that we did the ditch from Galveston, Tx, to Pensacola, Fl.

There are some problem areas to watch as you get closer here, if you continue on the ditch southward. I'd go outside from Hilton Head down to Jacksonville, if the weather is ok. You can also come in here at St. Simons (a good inlet, but long) if you want a short break. There is a good anchorage near Morningside Marina, where we stayed, at anchor, a few nights.

There is some skinny water at low tide near Jekyll Island (on the ICW), so beware. The only place we had a problem was just south of Fernandina (Saw Pit Creek?). Check out Active Captain, or I can look it up for you. We had a problem with a 5' draft, but it was low tide. One other is just south of Matanzas Inlet. Follow the markers near shore! Bottom line-the Florida ICW is NOT maintained very well as you get closer to Georgia. Farther south is fine.

Anyway, have a safe trip, which ever way you go.

I'd love to just leave from here, Brunswick Georgia, and head to the Abacos like other's suggested. BUT....we don't have an autopilot, so it's too hard on us (my wife and I) over 60's crew. Plus, you need a longer weather window. We use http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/hilton_head_island, passage weather, and http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/AM/470.html. I also download gribs on UGRIB (free).

Ralph
 
#41 ·
How was that part of the trip? We had planned to make it up to the Chesapeake, but gave up and stayed in Georgia for this hurricane season. It was July when we got here, and afternoon thunderstorms were nasty. The Georgia ICW seems pretty challenging, even considering that we did the ditch from Galveston, Tx, to Pensacola, Fl.

Ralph
The ICW from Charleston-Norfolk was quiet pleasant, and no serious issues to report. The fixed bridge in Isle of Palms was clearing 63' feet at high tide, so we drug our VHF antenna on the top. There were a few inlets that were challenging in NC, with Little River inlet being the most south bound one of note, the trick is to run the mainland side of any channel going past an inlet, the ocean side fills in faster. We did nearly get stuck in an inlet channel, watched my depth gauge plummet from 10-5' in seconds, backed straight back up the channel and made it through with relative easy hugging the mainland side.
The rock pile in Myrtle Beach was quite a narrow squeeze, would have been a bad time to pass anyone, but we cleared fine. I believe the worst stretch is 349-352, regardless stay in the middle of the channel and you should be fine, we cleared with a 6' draft and went through on a rising tide.
On a positive note I saw way more dolphins than I expected. Starting 25 miles north of Norfolk, all the way into the city with a sighting every 15-30 minutes. Had a few sightings in NC, with the closest encounters being in Cape Fear, NC (we made eye contact). Dolphins all over SC, sometimes miles inland into the marshland. The last day, Georgetown to Charleston so many dolphins in the marsh, then again at the marina in Charleston watched a guy swim right past the dock in the evening going upstream, woke up the next morning and he swam right by again going downstream.
 
#37 ·
To the original question -
You have a couple issues here which I don't think have been adequately addressed yet. First, from Cape Hatteras in NC to Palm Beach in FL, the coast falls away to the west. That means that any Bahamas bound trip leaving south of Beaufort NC (but north of Palm Beach), will have to cover additional miles to the east.

Charleston might be the best example of a bad departure point. Yes, you are further south than Beaufort, but you are much further west. In addition, at WPB and at Beaufort, the GS is rather compact and close to shore. Compact means that you can get across it (and out of the associated dangers) quicker. Closer to shore means that when you set out you will have a better understanding of what the conditions in the GS will be when you get there. At Charleston the GS is far offshore and not at all compact (narrow). That means you are covering additional ground with a less foreseeable weather for the most volatile part of the trip and the duration of the time in the stream may be significantly longer. Those are some of the major offshore to the Bahamas points for consideration.

As you get further south and are considering an overnight jump to the Bahamas from Florida, the issues have been more clearly discussed already (the need to work against a fast moving portion of the GS). Hope that helps some. Do a search and find some of the GS charts online and you'll get an idea of where it runs (distance from shore) and how fast and how compact it is in various locations. Combine that with an understanding of the way the US east coast falls off and you'll have a better sense of the different routes and the conventional wisdom.
-M
 
#40 ·
Charleston to Fernandina is an easy overnight. From there the inlets are not class A until Canaveral except Jax. There's potential for issues on arriving at these inlets. Local knowledge is important.

we've run the Fl icw with a 5'6" draft and 62' mast without incident. It is a long way out around Canaveral along the coast. It has always been easier to keep pushing on down the ditch once you are in N Fl.

But if you're looking for adventure...
 
#43 ·
Anyone have experience doing an offshore leg from Hilton Head, SC to Jacksonville, FL? In current conditions the Gulf Stream is far enough offshore there to run inside of it, probably on a counter current. Does a North wind create problems for being offshore if you're not on the Gulf Stream?
 
#44 · (Edited)
#45 ·
We live in Charleston and have made the trip south to the Bahamas for over 15 years. There are many ways to do it, even north of Lake Worth. The last several years we have crossed from Ft. Pierce, usually in a dying northerly once the seas have calmed down. Leave at dawn and at dusk you are on the Bank. If you keep moving in protected waters to MH, you will have made all of your easting so you can sail down island to where ever....staging to do this trip in Vero provides endless provisioning possibilities in addition to the wonderful cruising community.
We have also crossed from Lake Worth to Lucaya and Miami to Nassau (will never go there again) but got stuck there for several weeks due to strong NE's...doing it before Christmas is usually easier. If Diana Nyad can swim across the Gulf Stream, I am sure you will have no problems in a 45' boat, just pick your day.
Chas-south....we usually do the ICW to Beaufort and then jump out to St. Mary's or St. Augustine but check on the Inlet before makiing that trip...Chas. to St. Mary's is also easy.
 
#49 ·
If I wanted to run 24 hours a day from Hilton Head, SC to say Jacksonville or St. Augustine how feasible would that be? I certainly wouldn't run the ICW at night due to numerous crab pots, fish trap areas, unlit channel marks and related navigational hazards. Will I find similar issues with an onside run SC-FL? What are some of the best ways to mitigate these risks on a budget? With the right combination of charts, spotlights, AIS is a 24/7 run as described reasonably safe, or do I need an infrared/ night vision system to substantially mitigate risk?
 
#50 ·
I've noticed a trend in your posts...an over-reliance on gizmos and doodads. I was the same way, convinced that all the electronic goodies would help me automate my boat to a point where these passages are easy.

After owning my boat for 5 years, here's what I've learned. *NOTHING* beats sound, rested crew and good ol' Eyeball Mark I.

Rather than focus on AIS, Radar, charts, plotters (all of which are a constant source of breakage and maintenance for me now that I've installed them), focus on finding good sound crew...and making sure there are ENOUGH of you aboard so that you're able to take proper rest and do shifts that are reasonable.

The electronics *help*...but they cannot supplant good rested experienced crew aboard.
 
#51 ·
We have a crew of 3, and plan on working with a 3 man rotation, where each member is primarily responsible for 8 hours, and assists another 8 hours, with then 8 more hours for sleep. I'd like to take Hilton Head to Jacksonville/ St. Augustine to test how our rotation will work. Then take a day or two of ICW running south to get closer to a better passage and to rest. This leg skips the worst stretch of ICW through Georgia and provides an opportunity to test how our crew and shift schedule will work.

The issue I face is how many navigational hazards will I face being offshore, but inside the Stream from SC-FL. I know there are far too many unmarked hazards (crab pots, unlit poles) to comfortably do an ICW run over night, but will I face similar issues 10-20 miles offshore? If you had any insight into this particular passage offshore from SC-FL regarding any points that are relevant to navigation (unlit buoys, unmarked obstructions, etc), that would be of great assistance, as charts and maps only tell a partial story. Like everything else on the water there is no substitute for experience and local knowledge, so I'm after insight beyond what I can research myself. I've viewed charts, so I have some understanding of the passage and I cannot see why I shouldn't be able to run at night in that stretch of water. If I am missing something regarding this particular stretch of ocean please share. Otherwise, happy travels.
 
#52 ·
Ambitious
I think you are pushing your crew with that watch schedule, might be ok for a day or two any longer and you will have fatigue setting in. you might want to try something like 3hr helm, 3hr assist, 3hr sleep or in 4hr blocks. that way the same person won't have the overnight watch all the time. That is the schedule we use when transporting with a 3 or 4 person crew and it seems to work out.
Also remind your crew that even thou the sun is out never ever pass up a chance to sleep .
We will be headed south on Persistance - Person 36 on Nov.1 from Westbrook Ct
Peter
 
#54 ·
I could see why you'd want to shorten the schedules, as we rotated every hour or two at the helm while on the ICW, due to the associated fatigue. However, assuming we get the right schedule together that fits our crew, a 48 hour continuous hall from HH, SC to North Florida is feasible and relatively safe? There are no significant crabbing areas, or other navigational hazards that wouldn't show on a chart or GPS that need to be planned for, or maybe avoided? While fatigue is a concern I feel it would be much better to find out hey our plan for 24-72 hours of continuous sailing is rubbish between SC-FL, rather than between Abacos-Provo. Sounds like fatigue is the greatest concern, but what are some others? We did do some pre-dawn mornings on the ICW, most notably leaving Georgetown, SC and while mentally taxing we were only an hour or so before sunrise, a full night of sailing is a much greater commitment, so I want to make sure it's reasonable. 8-12 hours of what I experienced in the mornings leaving Georgetown and other places would be too much, I literally need a more open ocean relatively free of potential snags and hazards or night time travel is not worth it, so am I correct to believe I have that SC-North Florida?
 
#56 · (Edited)
Where are you coming up with 48 hours? In a 45' boat you ought to be able to do the entire Charleston to JAX in well under amount of time. Port Royal Sound (Hilton Head) is significantly closer (50NM less?) -- maybe a 24/hr run tops. If you want to go offshore to test the crew and save some time on the ICW, I'd head out from Charleston. You'll still be inside the gulf stream. The rhumb line from Charleston to JAX is under 200 NM. I don't understand the big concern about uncharted stuff out there. If you get 10-15 miles off before you head south (maybe the 10 fathom line?) and keep an active watch, you should be fine. I've only done it 2x so I am hardly the expert, but I'd study the charts (know your distances / times fall off points -- get the Dodge SE USA Inlets book as a backup) pick your weather window and go. Do you have the Maptech Norfolk to Florida Chartkit? This trip (leaving either from Port Royal or Charleston) is pretty easy to set up with that Chartkit. Leaving Charleston may even be easier simply because the coast falls away more and you get it out of your way.
-M
 
#55 ·
So I live in Beaufort, SC.
I want to do my first overnight singled handed sail this fall. I was thinking of going out the Port Royal sound at dark and heading out into the darkness " well maybe a bright moon lit knight" then back. Do you see any trouble in this for my first trip? I am knot sure how far the Gulf stream is from the coast. i sure dont want to find it the hard way. I will be in my 30 C&C MK1 with a 16 hp dependable Yanmar diesel. I have a good chart plotter and know the area well. I have sailed this area all summer and some last fall.
let me know what you think.

https://activecaptain.com/X.php
 
#57 ·
Well the thought is one day ICW Charleston- Hilton Head to recapture our sea-legs (and to see how the 70 year old grandfather will do). Then I'd like to go outside from HH to Jax or St. Augustine and run 24/7. My father doesn't want to run through the night while outside, which I think is a terrible mistake. He is concerned about bumping into things during the night, so I basically want to know if his concerns are grounded in reality. I think we'd be fine, it should be way more open than the times we ran in the ICW at dark, and I really want to make time. Concerns are things like in Georgetown where there was an unlit unmarked pole in the middle of the channel, which we nearly ran into in the pre-dawn darkness. I'd think I wouldn't have those issues offshore, but we really do not want someone with a spotlight to have to sit on the bow and scan for crabpots all night.
 
#59 ·
Anything is possible but not probable if you run offshore overnight.

My wife and I double hand outside from Charleston to Fernandina every spring and fall with no problem.
I would skip entering St Augustine, it isn't a class A inlet like St Marys, St Johns.

We like having radar and AIS.
 
#60 · (Edited)
There are no crab pots in the ocean. Radar is almost essential running at night to pick up buoys and to monitor large ships. There are quite a few private offshore buoys, fish sanctuary buoys, and structures with no lights (like the Frying Pan Shoals platform). Radar gives you a clear picture of what's around you. I almost always pick things up on Radar well before seeing them at night, especially if there is no moonlight to help and it's rough. Charleston to The St. John River is an easy, straightforward ocean passage. Just be mindful of the warships and LARGE container ships entering the St. John. As far as hitting stuff at night, IMO the chances are pretty small. There does not seem to be lot of flotsam. If there were a flood or something and rivers were spitting out tree trunks, I'd begin to worry about it. Sailing by the stars at night is wonderful.

One thing about electronic charts to be aware of is that you need to check all the layers because some unlit buoys will not show up on all the different scale layers of the same area. One layer will show them, the next....gone!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top